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I’m not so sure. Most Brazilians prefer a lively church setting – much along the lines of the Baptists you describe. I brought many people to church who were disappointed that our meetings weren’t livelier. Considering all our efforts at active proselytization, if we had more exuberant worship sessions, I guarantee that the numbers of members in our pews would be double, perhaps triple, what they are now. But our church isn’t about how many people we can get into our pews. Many people go to church for a sort of spiritual entertainment. But that’s just not the purpose of our church. The LDS religion is about actually teaching principles that will benefit people’s lives. Unfortunately, there are “personalities” who aren’t interested in this. I’m not sure what the solution is to this. In fact, I’m not sure that there’s a solution at all. |
You raise an interesting question. There is, I think, an extant to which religion fulfills an aesthetic need. The beauty found in a given religion is not necessarily appealing to everyone, and it’s tempting to think that we’d feel the spirit in any environment that conveys gospel truth. Taste matters, and it’s easy to see that a rendition of “We Thank Thee, Oh God, by the band Black Sabbath would not be likely to uplift anyone. Nephi practically commands us to use “modern language and examples” when he tells us to liken the scriptures unto ourselves. But I don’t think that this requires us to use language that cheapens those that we talk to. I doubt, for example, your neighbor would appreciate being called, the “Ultimate As-Is Shopper,” so why would God? In entertainment, many movies that are worth watching are not worth watching more than once. A few, the classics, we can watch over and over again. I think that we can add relevance to our meetings in memorable ways that still do not cheapen them. |
I served my mission in Detroit, and there were a handful of investigators who came to church that were disappointed in the tameness of our proceedings. We once took a sister with us to fellowship an investigator, and in talking to the investigator she opened my eyes as to how quiet our proceedings were. “Now, I know it seems quiet. There are no drums, no tamboriness…” I don’t think we need slangy language and modern instruments to add relevance. A sacrament meeting with direct, well-written, sincere talks that use a variety of teaching techniques is an achievable goal that will serve us well. |
How can we add energy and “relevance” to our meetings? Should we even try? Gladys Knight and her Saints Unified Voices choir came to town some months ago and it was interesting to see gospel-style music sung (with accompanying keyboards, bass and drums) and to see LDS people learning to clap along to music like that. It was a fun experience that only briefly and temporarily expanded our worship music experience … but it sure was fun. |
Willow Creek, which is a famous mega-church attracting tens of thousands of worshippers each weekend, is near where I live. I’ve attended their services, and it is just like a taping of the Tonight Show. I enjoyed it very much. But I can’t see a steady diet of that for my own worship. I’m much more traditional. I’d rather attend a Lutheran service than a Baptist one. (BTW, when I typed the above comment the text box went off the page on the right hand side. It appears to be some sort of technical glitch.) |
I definitely think many sacrament meetings could use more “life”. In my opinion, this is often achieved by GOOD musical numbers. Katie: Did you ever get to serve in Ann Arbor? (I was the WML there for several years in the ward with sisters). |
By the way, I am having the same issue referenced by Kevin. |
I like our meetings – not too much formality, except surrounding the sacrament. Very minimalist. Not too much that will detract from the object at hand. |
Two things – first, I think rejection of ‘modern’ language is more a cultural choice than a religious one, reflective of Mormonism’s cultural conservatism (think business suits). This doesn’t mean the choice is invalid; however, I do think we should realize that it’s a cultural choice to avoid the pitfall of too closely identifying the cultural with the sacred. Secondly, I find our focus on ‘talks’ interesting; it strikes me as a particularly didactic and in many ways Protestant thing that worship is defined this way. Some Christmases and holidays, I know, sacrament meeting is transformed into a musical performance. Why isn’t this the norm? |
We need comments from a Quaker (with their silent worship) and an Amishman Same with the noise our children make. Members and visitors often comment on What might sometimes be a distraction or disturbance — either because it’s But I do have to admit that when I visit some church that is too “busy” for |
Ardis (#10), our previous ward organist would play supposedly upbeat hymns in a s-l-o-w and p-o-n-d-e-r-o-u-s manner. I imagine the Amish would have felt right at home singing We Thank Thee, Oh God as slow as a funeral dirge like we used to. |
Hi everybody. Nice new blog you got here. I just wanted to add my comment to the question of whether we should….”add energy” to our meetings. Whenever I hear of these mega-churches and their bombastic performances, (and I’ve been to a few–I was a baptist before joining the church), I think of 1 Corinthians 13:1. Paul talks about charity here. He says:
I want to change that, if I could alter scripture and say this:
My most moving and edifying moments at church came in the quietest of times when the speaker brought the Spirit through his talk. We go to church to be edified, not to be entertained. A Gladys Knight performance sounds great–she’s a great singer–and normally music helps bring in the Spirit, but in the end, it is not the performance that matters, but how the Spirit is brought in. There is a reason why certain instruments are not allowed for use in Sacrament meeting. You’ll never see a drummer with a guitarist and an amp up front in our church for a reason. How can you hear the still small voice with all the racket? |
Kevin & Jordan, thanks for identifying that problem. I googled IE6 textarea and found a fix. Webmasters who want to use variable sized textareas in IE can find it here. |
Note that the “read more” link is not working for me on any post. I had to click “# comments” to read the full post. I recently have gone to the Catholic church and found it spiritual in a whole different manner then an LDS church. My wife, a firm believer, has commented that the local ward, and most wards, cookie cutter meetings bore her to death. Her one light is the odd choir performences. |
I agree. Nevertheless: 28 If thou art merry, praise the Lord with singing, with music, with dancing, and with a prayer of praise and thanksgiving.
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I meant that I agree with the main post, not necessarily the above comment, no. 14. I happen to like cookie cutters. And cookies. |
DKL, The place of aesthetic need in religion (and worship) is a problem that I’ve been grappling with for quite some time. I try to convince myself that Truth is what matters, and comfort level and satisfaction isn’t what I should be looking for when I go to church, but I can’t seem to convince myself. I think that often, form gets in the way of function. I go to church to worship God, but what am I to do when the meetings are the roadblock to that very worship? |
Rhapsidiomite, that scripture you site reminds me of a Monty Python lyric from a song in The Life of Brian:
Crystal, that’s a tough one. If one does not enjoy church on some level, that seems to be something of an impassable obstacle to long-term participation. I can only suggest trying another ward. |
It does seem impassable, especially when it is the style of worship, and not fellow worshipers that is the problem. LDS meetings are pretty standard, which is usually a selling point, but when you are unsatisfied by the standard, it leaves you know where to go but to the guys next door. |
DKL: Always look on the bright side of life! (Another “merry.”) |
I think meeting style is simply a matter of preference. I have felt the spirit in noisy dens of hedonism as well as in the solitude of nature. I’ve also failed to feel it quite frequently at church meetings. I have no clue what causes the spirit to blow my way. I also agree with DKL that form does affect the message. The television has obviouslly influenced public debate and discourse leading to sound bites. general conference becoming televised throughout the world (i.e. everything corporatized and approved.) all mediums affect the message and surely the style of our meetings do as well. For me, I wouldn’t mind a “this little light of mine” from time to time. Isn’t this the gospel? shouldn’t we be a little excited. Loosen the collar, an amen here or there. Then again it can become all form and no substance. In the end, culture is not the gospel, our dress, music, manner of speaking, IMHO, is secondary to the gospel. |
Rhapsodiomite, “Always look on the bright side of life!” Even up on the cross? |
Hey there cousin (Rhapsidiomite). I’m glad to see you here. Looks like you’ve done some work on your blog too. |
Jordan (#6): Yes, I did serve in Ann Arbor. I serverd in the Huron Valley ward for six months with Sister Hollingshead and Sister…oh dear…it’ll come to me… from Aug 97 to Jan 98. The Huron Valley had an awesome stake missionary program – at the beginning of each school year they called five couples to be stake missionaries and work with the sisters. It was a great experience – they found most of our investigators. Also, we had eight dinner appointments a week. |
Katie: I was also in the HV ward, but did not get to Ann Arbor until 2 years after you left. Ann Arbor is awesome! Totally off-topic threadjack: While I was there (2000 – 2005), the HV ward was completely dissolved. *sniff*. Some of it was assigned to Ypsi, some to the Ann Arbor ward, some to the new Saline ward. A new Ann Arbor 2 ward was created, which had most of the former HV ward. The University of Michigan family housing (Northwoods 1-5) was put in its own ward- the Ann Arbor University Ward. (That may not last much longer because within the last few years UM has been taking away the “family” status from family housing and putting in single students. Northwoods 1-3 had already lost “family” status by the time I left, so the University ward was dwindling…) |
DKL (2)– I’ve always wanted to see a Black Sabbath rendition of “Israel, Israel God is calling” in the style of “War Pigs.” |
I’ve always been intrigued on why certain instruments are not allowed, and others are. One Bishop told me guitars are not proper. Why does G-d hate guitars? sniff |
You can generally play whatever instrument you want, as long as it’s not a Sunday meeting, and not in the chapel. Break out the tamborines, drums, and guitars, as long as it’s in the cultural hall or RS room, and not on a Sunday. I’ve seen no rule that forbids visiting other churches, as long as you still attend your 3 hour block. If you have an 1:00pm afternoon ward, it should be no problem to find a tamborine-banging congregation that has their show at 10 or 11 am. Hey, if the LDS church can donate tens of thousands of dollars to help build a Hindu Temple in Utah, a few visits to some holy-rollers can’t hurt. But I can promise you, if you do recognize the Spirit, you’ll eventually get bored with any other congregation where the emphasis is more on outward shows and emotional manufacturing. |
But Bookslinger, the thing is, at these other churches, the emphasis isn’t on the external. We just like to think so, because then it is easier to separate us from them. Other churches seek Christ as earnestly as we do, and it’s a bit disingenuine to suggest otherwise. |
[...] – New blog! Mormon Mentality features several LDS commenters I’ve come to know, including Proud Daughter of Eve, who’s married to a Catholic, and annegb, who’s been sympathetic to Catholicism in her comments. I peg her as a Someday Catholic. And for my next post, I will have a never-before-seen guest piece! [...] |
I think that much of what we think of as proper music, speaking style, audience reaction, etc. for church is a result of culture and not the gospel itself. The Church has a very definite culture though and if that doesn’t appeal to you then it could be an obstacle to recognizing the gospel message. While I think it is up to the individual to overcome their own cultural prejudices in order to accept the gospel message that comes in a particular cultural packaging I also think that the church could do more to not put up such barriers and be more accepting of the good in cultures that aren’t indigenous to the Wasatch Front. |
Kaimi told of a great guy on his mission who spiced up his meetings. Maybe we could pitch in and have him come to the US and visit our wards. I think he break dances during his testimonies or something. I’m pretty much completely bored with church and the same old trite message. It’s probably me, but I get so sick of the score-keeping patting-of-their-own-back of the majority of the speakers and little real testimony. I think we could use a little evangelism in our meetings. Go Baptists. |
One of the things I like to do when I attend another church is to flip through their hymnal and look for songs I recognize. I was quite pleased when I found “How Firm a Foundation” at my grandmother’s Methodist and rather zinged when they sang it at my husband’s Catholice church last week (though they sang it all wrong). Somehow I’d thought that one was particularly LDS. Goes to show I gues. Something really fun happened when I was at my grandmother’s church this summer. Someone got up and gave a special musical number and I recognized it! I could swear that we spent a month or so learning in when I was in YW in the 90’s. Unfortunately I can’t remember the title. (It wasn’t the one about “with God, nothing is impossible,” though.) I tried to goggle the lyrics but came up with nothing. Rats. We’ve had a number of special musical numbers at my ward recently. Maybe I’ll polish my piano skills and find something intersting to share. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I go for something more boisterous or stick to the quiet, pretty ones? |
PDOE, |
That’s rather amusing, danithew, given the typical tensions between our two groups. Though when I asked Matt (the friend whose baby was being dedicated and himself used to be a Baptist preacher) about how Canadian Baptists felt about Mormons he said he’d never heard anything like the stories I’d mentioned. |
PDOE, now “With God, nothing is impossible” is going to be running through my brain. You know what would be funny? If you were playing prelude, and slipped in a little of “My girl” or something, just a few bars. And see who notices. I think it’s really sad how we will enjoy a musical number that departs from the norm, that maybe has a little more rhythm or soul and then feel guilty for it and feel embarrassed for the often-expert performer. |
annegb, You mean like this: |
I understand this is an older blog but I just came accross it and I just happen to have two bits to say. It is a good point you bring up. There are many appealing things in other religions and though they may not be appropriate for Sunday worship, they are uplifting in other settings. However, this demonstrates what happened to the original church that Christ established and why we have so many Christian religions today. Too many people want to adapt Christ and His teachings to better suite their desires instead of adapting themselves to fit Christ. |