22 Comments | leave a comment | RSS 2.0 for this post | trackback |
A proverbial bone. Boy, been there. I get pretty torqued at God about those bones. I’ve felt exactly what you describe, though, Devyn. Twice that I’m certain about, maybe a few other times. I felt my first husband’s mother with me after she died and I also felt my aunt after she died. My aunt and I had an agreement that we would visit the other, whoever died first. Her presence was undeniable and welcome. I’ve never wondered if God was dead, I’ve wondered if He really loves His children. Or if He has favorites, and I’m not one of ‘em. |
Devyn, |
Devyn: Thank you for sharing this. I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but can you express what your father ‘felt’ like? I imagine it would be difficult to communicate. I’m glad you were able to have this experience. |
Hi Eric, |
We can talk about the pre-existence, the spirit world, and the three degrees of glory (or any other doctrine or philosophy that explains life beyond this world) “in theory” for years, but it isn’t until we experience life’s ultimate mystery/question (which, to me, is “death”) first hand (i.e. death of a loved one) that we have an opportunity to actually give our theories “game experience”. So it’s the bottom of the 9th inning, your father/mother/son/daughter/wife/husband has just passed away, and we call up our theory to pitch the final three outs. Until then our theory has only seen practice scenarios, simulated games; but it looked good in practice, clocking 92 mph on the radar and hitting all of its spots. Now, with runners on the base paths and a monster .362 hitter at the plate, those “practice scenarios” feel miles away, like another lifetime — the ball feels alien in your hand, your legs wobble, the simple mechanics of a pitch windup seem beyond you… in short, in the face of death, our theories all of a sudden feel lighter than air. As you said yourself, it is impossible to know whether your experience was real or imagined, but I think it is good/helpful/comforting/healthy (and a million other adjectives) to view this experience as you say, as a “proverbial bone†from beyond the veil. Human experience since the dawn of Man seems to testify to such “bones,†regardless of creed, and despite their elusive ability to be pinned down. My only caveat is that we take such experiences and stretch them like especially elastic cellophane to cover a host of other unknowns… for example, “because of this experience, I know that X church is true, or Y book is true, or Z theory is true,†when it is far more correct and pure (and safe, I think) to look at such experiences simply as proverbial bones from a loving Heavenly Father. Paul Toscano recently said, “Reality is not accessible directly — we cannot ever know ourselves or the Cosmos well enough, they are too complicated. We can only entertain changing perceptions of reality, projections of our interiorities on the exterior world, products of our imagination. We wear these illusions like clothes, the best we can do is to change our perceptions in response to what we learn by experience and contemplation, abandoning what is outmoded, inadequate, and harmful to achieve some small comprehension of a reality, so complex, it will for awhile seem to fit into any theory we can stitch up for it.†|
Eric, I can answer that, too. For me, it was the undeniable presence of that specific person. It was, as Joseph Smith says, “pure intelligence” I didn’t hear thoughts, but I felt strong and pure love. I felt their strength. It was, as I said, undeniable. I guess undescribable, as well. Oh, and it was a warmth. A physical warmth. What sort of maddens me about that is that I’ve never felt my children or my husband. Well, maybe my husband, once, lightly. I think I hold them off because my grief and regret are so immense. |
I love the analogy Matt. Your caveat is well taken. I don’t think my experience necessarily correlates with much beyond the fact that I felt some confirmation that my father lives beyond death – but that is huge in and of itself for me. One thing that always puzzles me is that we may get to the bottom of the ninth and we get nothing. I thin Anne alludes to that. Why do we feel something sometimes and not others? That is one question that I will never understand and, yes, Anne, to me it is also very maddening… |
Thanks Devyn. By the way, I wasn’t suggesting that you “stretched the cellophane” with my caveat. Your conclusion (“father lives beyond death”) strikes me as a comparatively good example of matching the feeling with an appropriate or “logical” (“logic” at least in the slippery realm of the spiritual) response. Of course, there could be other “logical” conclusions as well, but your conclusion seems to be in the ballpark with the spiritual experience. I don’t know… obviously, there is no ultimate “right” answer, only shades and shifting intepretations of answers, as Toscano says in that quote. But there are degrees of interpretation that range from the relatively plausible to the relatively implausible, which is what I meant with my caveat. As you said, such an experience is “huge” in and of itself. I’ve felt them from time to time and they are literally impossible to describe using language. Such experiences are often elusive in the sense that they happen when you least expect it. It is “maddening” when they don’t happen. When we try to make them happen (i.e. at funerals, temples, etc.) they seem more elusive. The best I’ve been able to do is to try to be “open” to such experiences. I know next to nothing about meditation, but I’m interested in the process as a potential proactive mechanism for being more in touch with the spiritual. The recent Sunstone cover story “Mormon Mantras” by former LDS Institue of Religion Instructer Phil McLemore offers a tantalizing glimpse at such experiences: http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/issues/141/141-20-31.pdf |
Oh, I loved that post on mantras. I started meditating as per his suggestions, but I got sick, so now I’m starting all over. I found it was more problematic than you’d think to find a mantra that fit me. I can’t remember if I read it in his essay or “Eat, Pray, Love” but somebody wrote something about the ultimate mantra being “I am That”–there are words in Hindu that mean “I am That.” It sort of works. Which is totally off the subject. But I also shared it with my neighbor. I’m glad to read someone else who was impressed. |
Great post, Devyn. |
“God is dead.” “Nietzsche is dead.” C’mon, I can’t have been the only person thinking it… |
Thanks for the Sunstone article Matt. I read it on my flight to NYC this morning. I am certainly going to try some of meditation as it sure seems to be a wonderful way of connecting for my friends who practice Eastern religions. And yes, pdoe, I thought about the Nietzsche / God couplet but did not want to get too cheesy |
Awesome post, Devyn. Truly a faith builder. I am grateful that "God threw you a proverbial bone". It is well deserved. It must be back pay for long conversations you have had trying to rescue others’ floundering faith. :) Amazing post. Thanks for sharing it. |
Wonderful post, and I have appreciated the comments. I felt nothing when either my mother or my father died. Just regret that I wasn’t in the room when it happened. I haven’t felt their presence, either, but when I was on my mission I swear I felt my grandfather reassuring me on one terrible, lonely night. Annegb (#1), Matt, Thanks for the Sunstone article. I knew Phil McLemore in his last assignment as an Air Force chaplain, and he never struck me as the kind of person who would write an article like this. Makes me wish I had gotten to know him better. |
Thank you for sharing your experience. I don’t feel so crazy now. I felt my grandfather’s presence a year after he died. I felt like he was there watching my son play. My son is in many ways like my grandfather. I think we say “feel” because we do not see them with our eyes, but feel them like a blind person feels a person’s presence. The blind don’t see but knows a person is there using other senses. I think another thing many people are forgetting (about whether or not Heavenly Father really cares)– is faith. I have to keep reminding myself to have faith that Christ suffered for my sins and forgave me, and that Heavenly Father loves me just like I seem to have enough love for each of my own children equally. Love never stops, it always grows. Since giving birth to my third child, that is what I learned. My heart grew as each child was born. I don’t love one more than the other. I think we just have to have faith like a child that our Father in Heaven loves us the same, even if our life is difficult and we feel alone. |
Thanks SKL, those were good times… |
Devyn, One, it taught you sympathy towards the feelings of those who haven’t learned/found faith yet. Now you know how those who have no hope of an afterlife or resurrection feel when they experience loss. Second, it made you appreciate it even more when your father “visited” you and the accompanying feelings. I’ve always thought that when Heavenly Father allowed Joseph to temporarily feel Satan’s opression and darkness, that it was to enhance his appreciation for the utmost glory that was to immediately follow. Unless one tastes the bitter, one doesn’t have full appreciation for the sweet. |
CS Eric (and anyone else who is interested), There is a very nice Podcast interview between Dan Wotherspoon, Sunstone’s Editor, and Phil McLemore that makes a nice companion piece to this Sunstone article. Its a great listen because its nice to hear Phil talk about his many Chaplain experiences and meditating experiences in a conversational voice. |
Bookslinger - |
Any belivers in reincarnation out there? |
Interesting… Obviously the Church today is very different from the Church of the 1840s. In fact, I would argue that a member who visited that other time would not recognize the Church. |
My son ran across this blog and saw that CS Eric knew me in my last military assignment. Hey Eric, if you are still out there shoot me an email. philkimmc@yahoo.com |