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Exactly, Wayne - I think politicizing religion is worse for religion than it is for politics, particularly in a democracy. Attempting to assert that our faith requires us to support particular legislative actions brings with it the danger of coming to define faith as those actions; it shortchanges the depth of faith and reduces it to mere ethics. |
I wonder if we’ll ever hear apologies from Mormons who claimed you couldn’t be a good Mormon and a Democrat. I doubt it, but it is a fantasy I hope would come to life at some point in my lifetime. |
Matt B: What I hope to show in my coming posts is the very thing you point out–politicizing religion is bad for religion in general and probably, in the end, for every denomination specifically. Dan: I think you have a greater chance of flying to meet Frodo with Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock than you do hearing most Mormons ever saying something nice about a democrat. But it is always good to cling to blind hope–it gets you through the day. |
Oh, come on. Some of my best friends are Democrats! I don’t hold it against them at all; I mean, if they want to sacrifice their values for political expediency, who am I to judge? The great thing about American government is that the influence of religion is always indirect. Specifically, religion shapes the lives of those who shape government. Unless we want a freedom of religion that only encompasses voters, and excludes elected officials, this is a very good thing. |
DKL, my apologies, I’ve never heard you, personally say anything derrogatory about Mormon Democrats, and my post, very short, did not clarify that I wasn’t directing it to anyone on this blog. Just in general to all those who have said derrogatory things towards Mormon Democrats. |
Wayne,
Well said. Take the Ted Haggard debacle. Because he is tied so strongly to politics, his denunciation of gay marriage whilst he himself partook of the forbidden fruit looks awful for the Evangelical religion. Whereas if he stayed out of politics and this had occurred, most would have said, eh just another guy, though a leader, who couldn’t be honest with himself and others. |
This is a fascinating discussion. i think the best place to look for religion infused in politics is in Utah. How often does the church step in and recommend something which then miraculously passes the legislature. Is this problematic? I guess the church has as much right as any other institution to get policies passed that are postive to their view, but when is it going too far? Now on the personal side, I think there are many times in Utah politics when someone brings the church into a political issue in the hope of galvanizing a base (whether Mormon or not). This too, I believe, is wrong. |
Dan: Absolutely. If one is going to denounce groups, such as gays, based on a religious principle, then one had best make sure that one is well, well above board in all your practices. Devyn S.: Certainly the church has a right to lobby the government, as any institution does. However, I am not always certain that it does not cross the line. For example, in California some years ago Proposition 22–reaffirming marriage could only be between a man and a woman–was on the ballot. The local wards, mine included, used ward lists and organized extensively to get prop. 22 passed. Again, Mormons have the right to fight for whatever they think is best for the polity. But they cannot enjoy the benefits of being a tax exempt organization and still using the church as a church to organize politically. Without going into whether or not that is even ethical–it’s not in my opinion, even if other organizations do it–it is also boarding on illegal. But that is a post for another day. |
I’m reminded of the recent Hatch/Ashdown debate on KTVX here in Utah. In his closing remarks Hatch claimed that he was brining “Utah values, Utah teachings” to the Senate. This seemed to me to be obvious code for, “I’m Mormon, vote for me!” Of course Ashdown is LDS as well, but Hatch seems to imply that only he has “Utah teachings” to bring to the Senate. Sadly for Utah, we’ll elect Hatch no matter what he says or does and he knows this and acts accordingly. He is free to spout off idiotic statements, claiming that the terrorists want Democrats to be elected or that Republicans didn’t do more about Folley for fear of being branded homophobic. Is that a “Utah teaching”? Similarly, in Utah’s 2nd District race, LaVar Christensen doesn’t differ substantially from Matheson on the issues, but is running a “Vote for me! I’m LDS!” campaign as well, without much to distinguish or recommend him. Given that candidates are leveraging their membership in the church for votes, I wish that more discussion of the candidates and politics in general were allowed in church. |
Wayne, I agree. I’m sort of sick of the claims to personal righteousness on all sides. Don’t tell me, show me. |
I haven’t had too much of a problem with Bush’s public professions of Christianity. I look forward to your next post, to understand your concerns better. |
A read an interesting book recently that argued that both secularists (those who want religion taken completely out of the public sphere) and those the author calls values evangelicals (people who want religion to dictate societal values) are losing the battle over the separation of church and state. Basically he says that people who have certain policy preferences because of their religious beliefs actually do want the state and religion to be separate, but they want to be able to argue that something is right or wrong based on their private beliefs. One of the problems of the Religious Right is that they think they want to limit the separation of church and state, but I’m sure they would be singing a different tune if a Mormon, a Jew, or a Muslim were elected president. We shouldn’t forget that it wasn’t too long ago that American Catholics and American Protestants were political enemies. |