1. Joseph Smith- founder of the religion

2. Brigham Young- founder of the culture

3. Spencer W. Kimball- brought priesthood to blacks and gave us an official revelation in the 20th century.

4. Gordon B. Hinckley- brought the temple to the world, gave us the proclamation on the family

5. David O. McKay- Started the move to a world religion

6. Wilford Woodruff- moved away from adoption, polygamy, and emphasized sealing.

7. Heber J. Grant- Made the Word of Wisdom matter.

8. James E. Talmage- The LDS scholar we are all proud of.

9. Bruce R. McConkie- For good and sometimes ill, his writings, thoughts, and opinons are pervasive in all our current literature.

10. Joseph Fielding Smith- Like his Son-in-Law, his writing was prolific and almost no topic can be framed in the LDS faith without addressing his writing on some level.

How was Harold B. Lee so influential? Who is Leonard Arrington?

Part of the problem in trying to make this determination is that the entire list could arguably be presidents of the church. However, there’s a desire to include influential LDS women and influential non-general-authority figures as well. Maybe there should be separate categories. It would be interesting just to discuss who were the 10 most influential presidents of the church, who were the 10 most influential LDS women, who were the 10 most influential LDS businessmen, etc.

danithew – that would be interesting. I would guess most Mormons could probably name 10 prophets, would not know 10 influential women or business people, but could name the athletes… So what are your lists then?

LL – Great list – Why HBJ as #3? That is interesting. I am also surprised the GBH is so low on your list. JFieS is also intesting at #4 as his literalism has been both a blessing and a curse for the Church. I noticed President Benson is not on your list? Why – I think his work post-WWII, in the government as well as Prophet are compelling to put him in there…

Thanks Devyn. I’ve never heard of him so I didn’t know what he did. But I agree, that is pretty influential work.

I wonder why you have Harold B. Lee though (while he may have implemented the welfare and correlation programs, it was not he who was inspired to create those programs, but Heber J. Grant, who is not on your list).

I also wonder why you don’t have Wilford Woodruff on your list, seeing as it was under his direction that permanent temples were created, the state of Utah was given legitimacy, and really most of the building of the kingdom as we see it today happened under his guidance and leadership. Plus, he was there when the prophet died, lived to tell about it and continue the work of the Lord.

I would also probably add Hyrum Smith to the list, as the brother of the prophet, he was integral in the buildup of the early church.

Really, after the beginning of the church, not many Mormons besides prophets themselves have been as influential in the buildup of the kingdom, as compared to the first saints.

I recently went through this exercise to identify 40 people through whom to tell the history of the church. It’s fascinating (and reassuring) to see others going through the same struggles. There’s the tendency to want to include all the church presidents — but then you want to include women — and coverage of the 20th as well as 19th century — and what about the international church? Then there are those you’d rather not include but whose influence you can’t deny (I was surprised to see those nominees show up so early in the discussion — impressive). My list ended up including some people who individually may not have been the most influential, but whose eras and activities would allow a broader telling of the church’s story.

But ten only? That’s beyond my power to contemplate. I’m fascinated by watching others’ responses.

I think it would be interesting to do a list of Most influential LDS who were not General Authorities. Or to break the list down into generations.

Ardis, I’d love to see your 40.

Ardis, I’d also be interested in seeing your 40 list.

Last Lemming,

Are #1 and #2 that obvious? You seemed to advocate a very different position on a similar matter earlier this year.

In fact a bunch of people voted for GBH over JSjr on the FPR poll, and I am having a hard time distinguishing between the question at issue here and the one there.

Can anybody explain the discrepancy?

I think I might agree with the idea that Bruce R. McConkie had a massive influence on Church-wide political inclinations. Mormon Doctrine had such an authoritative title that it took on unusual status for many people.

Devyn S.

I have a hard time estimating the sum of all influence over time. I have a much easier time guessing at influence from where (and when) I stand. Since everyone knows I am a nerd I feel free to ask: Are you asking for the integral of influence over time?

I’ll even admit that the two questions are deeply related in that past influence has echoes.

I guess I’m still baffled by people voting for GBH in the FPR poll.

ARJ – I think the integral of influence over time is a fair way to state it. Past influence certainly has more echoes, but hopefully we can correct a little for that. I would guess the GBH issue makes sense to me given most people are oblivious of history and think the present is the most critical thing.

Dan – I agree with Talmadge – did you know in his journal while back East doing his grad degree he tried marijuana as an experiment to test its effects on the body – I love the old time leaders. I also like BH Roberts and Widtsoe (great scientist)

Who was Lowell Bennion? I have seen his name a lot lately, and am curious as to his place in our history.

Lowell Bennion was in education, longest at the University of Utah. The Institute program owes a great debt to him. He was arguably also our greatest professional humanitarian (as apart from the way the gospel should make humanitarians out of all of us). He was a model of action over words. I included him as a platform to discuss 20th century education and as the embodiment of humanitarian service.

A lot of the women you might not recognize were presidents of Relief Society, Primary, and the young women’s organizations. They are included not just because their lives extend over most of our history, but because, in the case of RS presidents, they represent eras in our history — systematic social services, involvement with service organizations beyond the church, the church’s stand on social and political issues, and the role of the family, at different periods. Patty Bartlett Sessions is there as a representative “generic Saint” — an ordinary woman who was part of great movements in church history, and who left a record allowing us to look at this issues through her life. I also recognize that my list is heavy on historians, partly due to my own bias and partly because their lives are vehicles to discuss the church history events they wrote about.

Are #1 and #2 that obvious? You seemed to advocate a very different position on a similar matter earlier this year.

Good catch. I’d completely forgotten about that. I’m going to fall back on Devyn’s distinction (integral here vs. point-in-time in the FPR poll) to cover myself.

Thanks Ardis, for sharing that list. Very interesting.

Yeah, those ones, also Joseph Smith for causing such a ruckus in the 19th century midwest and Brigham Young for getting the Republican Party so ticked off about polygamy and for colonizing so much (you know, manifest destiny and all that). I’d also have to add J. Reuben Clark (for his work in the State Department), and Marriott (for selling so much porn in his hotel rooms).

The real question is how much longer will it take until Joseph Smith is dropped from your lists entirely. The church is certainly de-emphasizing several of his teachings in recent times as the PR department strives to carry out Hinckley’s mantra of “we don’t want people to think we’re weird!”

I am reminded of an experience I had one day at the end of an elders’ quorum meeting in a married student university ward. I was the quorum instructor, and taught the manual-prescribed lesson on the life and teachings of Joseph Smith. At the end, I encouraged the members of the quorum to study his teachings. After the meeting ended, I was accosted by a member of the bishopric, who chastized me for telling members of the quorum to study the teachings of Joseph Smith, when (as he saw it) I should have been telling them to study the teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (who was president of the church at that time). I was shocked, and asked him if he didn’t think it was important to understand earlier prophets as well as the current one. His very serious response: “If any of the early brethren had anything important to say, the brethren today will quote it to us!”

Assuming this bishopric member hasn’t evolved in his understanding since then, his list would clearly place Gordon B. Hinckley as #1. I’m not sure his list would include Joseph Smith at all.

Nick, sounds like that member of your bishopbric was a bit ultra-orthodox in his views on the issue of prophets.

I really don’t believe that Joseph Smith’s influence is removable. I’m glad it isn’t.

I don’t agree with the idea that his influence is merely based in things that are “weird”.

It seems to me that influential must have something to do with the fact that they have made Mormonism more accesible to non-Mormons as well as within the church. So, that being the case, there is no way we can overlook

1. Donny and Marie Osmond (no comment necessary)
2. the Osmond Family
3. Steve Young (NFL)
4. Merlin Olson (NFL, Little House on the Prairie, Flowers)
5. Mitt Romney (Gov. of Michigan)
6. George Romney (Gov. of Mass)
7. Ezra Taft Benson (Sec. of Agr., anti-communist crusader, committed John Bircher)
8. Danny Ainge (NBA)
9. Dale Murphy (MLB)
10. Andy Reid and Chad Lewis (NFL)

For better or worse, these people, especially the athletes and entertainers, will have much more to say about how people perceive the Mormon faith than Bennion and Arrington could ever imagine. In fact, I would daresay that most Mormons are concerned with what these people do and say than most of our “intellectuals” in the church.

Geez, guys. You all are so off the mark that it’s plain silly. Here’s the list:

1. Greg Call & Wilfried Decoo (tie)
2. Matt Evans & Jim Faulconer (tie)
3. Russell Arben Fox & Jonathan Green (tie)
4. Adam Greenwood & Ben Huff (tie)
5. Frank McIntyre & Nate Oman (tie)
6. Gordon Smith
7. Julie Smith
8. Rosalynde Welch
9. Kaimipono David Wenger
10. Margaret Young

Anyway, that’s the impression I get from reading them ;) And who am I to question the wisdom of the most important Mormons ever?

My top 10 not on your original list:

1. B. H. Roberts
2. Orson Pratt
3. James E. Talmadge
4. Bruce R. McConkie
5. Joseph Fielding Smith
6. Gerald Lund (for his books)
7. Sister Addison Pratt (for first telling Polynesians they are descendents of Lehi)
8. George Q. Cannon (for guiding 3 presidencies)
9. N. Elden Tanner (for making the Church a financial powerhouse)
10. Andrew Jensen (for pulling together the Church history department)

AH, (re #42) I second Steven Covey. Very influential.

DKL – interesting list – I have no idea who most of those people are – writers you say? of what conservative gibberish???

DKL – Is Jesus really Mormon? I would say no.

Larryco – good additions – I particularly like Andrew Jenson – he is very underappreciated. What about another Canadian Hugh B Brown for being the only liberal in the GAs in the 1960s who had to fight against Benson, et al.,

DKL, last year over lunch you said I was the greatest Mormon you’d ever met, or even read about, but now you put me at number two? What have Greg and Wilfried done that’s so great?

Matt Evans, ROTFLMAO. That’s a fair question. Danithew is right, and at the time, I didn’t know that Wilfried was French (I thought he was Communist; who knew?). Nor did I realize that Greg liked Dylan. I don’t like Dylan much myself, but I really do admire people that do. Listening to that stuff for hours is pretty brutal. Besides, Dylan wrote one of my favorite Elvis songs (“Don’t Think Twice.”).

Yes, but even Nietzsche said “The one true Mormon died on the cross.”

My apologies to Br. Decoo. Now that you mention it, I remember that he is, in fact, a Belgiumite.

My only question is, which half of the country formerly known as Belgium does Br. Decoo hail from? Is he a Fleming Belgiumite or a Walloon Belgiumite?

DKL – What is the context of that Nietzsche quote? Are you paraphrasing?

Nice discussion list… How about of list of famous ex-Mormons?

1. Emma Smith
2. Three Witnesses
3. Eight Witnesses
4. George Lee
5. September 7
6. Fawn Brodie
7. The Laws
8. William Godbe
9. Jewel?
10. Ed Decker

Belgiumite … I thought that was a strange ingredient in Australian sandwiches.

Wasn’t Belguimite recently banned by the USA?

I’m from Australia. Never heard of Belgiumite. We got marmite, promite and vegemite. The former 2 are just copies of the real thing. Vegemite is awesome, eat it everyday. You guys don’t know what you’re missing out on. FYI – you don’t spread it like peanut butter, you just lightly dab it on your toast after the butter. If you do it properly you might just like it. Too many of you guys just spread a chunk on and taste it and of course you don’t like it cos it’s too strong. My brother eats vegemite by dipping the spoon in the jar. Hmmm, I reckon I could write an essay on the stuff. Sorry for going on.

OK, I’ll bite. What do you see as the role of church leaders in Hofmann’s forgeries and murders? You seem to be insinuating that there is blood on the hands of someone besides Mark Hofmann.

John (#67),

That is probably the most uncharitable reading of what I wrote re Hofmann and Church leaders in #66, but the fault is mine for not being more specific. What can I say, it was late.

I guess what I meant is that the whole “l’affair de Hofmann” episode impacted the Church, not only our History but the way the Church reacts to historical documents. To a lesser extent, the fact that Church leaders were duped like everyone else may have impacted the way some people look at Church leaders, whether this is fair or not. But more importantly, the end of the Hofmann affair marked a turning point where Church leaders became largely silent on such matters, leaving the speculation and the debate to Historians, FARMS, etc. As such, I think Mark Hofmann has played a role in shaping Mormonism to a limited extent.

When you look at the men and women who shape history and institutions, both the famous and the infamous, both the heroes and “villians” play a role. Any poll that asked for people who shaped the 20th Century would have to include people like Hitler or Mao alongside Churchill, FDR, etc. Similarly, I think people like Hofmann and Brodie played a role in shaping Mormonism.

Devyn,

Certainly one could cut up the list into more and more subgroups. For example, I’d have a hard time putting Quinn in the same category with Brodie and the Tanners. And frankly, I’d have a hard time putting Brodie and the Tanners in the same category. Yes, they are all ex-Mormons, but Quinn is still a believer and has always been a responsible historian. Brodie is not a believer and was probably more biased against the Church than Quinn, but unlike the Tanners, she was not proselyting or actively trying to persuade people to leave Mormonism and believe a different, but just as speculative, religious truth– she was just trying to write history. One is free to dither about whether her history is slanted, but then one must also do the same with official LDS church history.

I think that any reasonable reading of Brodie makes her very biased in favor of Joseph Smith. Two years ago, at the Vermont MHA conference, a panel on Joseph Smith biography all agreed that Brodie was biased toward Joseph Smith (including a BYU professor). Mormon’s tend to think that if you don’t think he was a prophet, then you have a negative view of him. This is unfortunate.

It’s just strange that someone can read Brodie and Bushman, yet think that Brodie is a bad biographer. It’s fair to say that Bushman agrees with Brodie on nearly every controversial element of Joseph Smith biography that Brodie advanced as fact. The fact is that — in spite of its reputation — the content of Brodie’s biography isn’t even controversial anymore.

Moreover, it’s worth noting that before Brodie wrote No Man Knows My History, nobody outside of Mormonism thought that Joseph Smith was historically important. In spite of evidence that had been around for decades, most people still thought that Joseph plagiarized the Book of Mormon and was nothing more than the charismatic front man for Rigdon until he got himself shot and Brigham took over. We owe Brodie a debt of gratitude for convincing non-Mormon scholars that the founder of our church was actually an important historical figure.

Matt, I was in the back row. That’s where I always sit — behind all the other Mormons. Best I could tell, I was not sitting near anyone well-known. I was next to some guy who was passing his time by editing wikipedia articles on his laptop (I couldn’t get wireless in that room, but evidently he could).

Wilford Woodruff is easily in third place. Ending polygamy, Utah’s statehood, sealing to families instead of apostles and prophets. The church doesn’t even resemble what it is today without the changes he made.

I believe that Red Skelton & Pat Boone also had the discussions.

Philo T Farnsworth hasn’t been mentioned on this whole thread, but he is the one Mormon who has had more influence on the world than any other, including Joseph Smith. He invented the television.