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I look forward to the Second Coming because apparently that’s the only thing that will get us silly humans to stop killing each other. The Second Coming has always been used as a boogeyman, the bell signaling the test is over, you’d better have done well! Because, well, it is sort of the end of the road. If you were bad by that point, you will not be getting any presents. If you’ve been good, well, you get your mansions in heaven. |
cherry trees take five years to bear fruit |
I recall the constant discussions when I was growing up about whether we would all be ready to move to Jackson County in order to prepare the way for the Second Coming. I told of having to help build buildings, etc. All I can say is that if you need me to build a building, stay out! The Second Coming seemed to be something that was going to be any day. Actually most of my young men leaders thought it would be around 2000. I never quite understood why the worry about the Second Coming. One could die at any time. So, shouldn’t the moral of any individual be to live each day as if it were the last? I suppose the division as God perhaps sees it is that some choose to live their lives as if God were coming tomorrow (The oil in the lantern parable) versus as if God were never coming (eat drink and be merry). I suppose this could be my last comment ever, though I live as if I will write a hundred more. |
The Second Coming has a shock and awe affect. We talked a lot about the second coming, but the teacher (thankfully) talked a lot about how we need to live our lives how we’re supposed to in order to prepare. The comments in our lesson devolved a little into “what if” territory, but the instructor handled it yet. Personally, I get really tired of using fear as a motivating tool also. That, and other mormons being so negative about the world we live in. We’ve been reminded time and time again to be positive–the phrase “the fullness of times” doesn’t just mean the world is “more evil” than it ever has been. We’ve been chosen to come down on this earth at this time, for whatever reasons, we might as well be happy and “have joy” while we’re down here… |
As Comic Book Guy would say, “Worst Lesson Ever.” I had the pleasure if you can call it that of teaching this lesson and I just kept saying to myself why is this lesson even in here. The whole point of the lesson is to live the gospel. There isn’t anything special that one should do in preparation for this event. The only thing that I found interesting was the discussion of the Parable of the 10 Virgins. It is pretty easy to figure out who the 5 prepared virgins are. But who are the 5 unprepared? Less actives? Actives who simply go through the motions? Does any of this matter? |
Dan, I’m not saying we shouldn’t look forward to it. I’m saying that there has to be more to discourse involving it. fishhead, Good point about the cherry trees, though I still think that we’ll plant trees after the Second Coming, so when you think about it the quote doesn’t mean as much as it seems to one first inspection. Also, I think we should start by using all the capitalization and punctuation that are required to make sentences. :) Wayne L., Yeah, I remember a lot of talk about having to trudge back across the country to get to Missouri. I brought up the point during the lesson that if we use the past to predict the future then it is infinitely more likely that I’ll die tomorrow than that the Second Coming will happen. So why isn’t our own mortality motivation enough? Sherpa, I also tire of fear as a motivating tool. But it seems that some people love it. I’d like to see a lesson devoted to the subject that is fear-free. |
il_slinky, I agree that it was a particularly hard lesson to teach. Of course I didn’t do myself any favors by asking a question directly related to the title of this post to start things off. I also agree that the lesson didn’t seem to bring up anything that we should do in preparation that we shouldn’t be doing anyhow. Maybe it emphasized building Zion as a place of peace and a refuge from the world, but you had to strain to get that out of it. |
It is interesting, because the folks in his day thought the Second Coming was to be in their lifetimes. I guess that is the take home lesson. |
J. Stapley, I thought that two of the quotes in the lesson made it quite clear that he thought that it was going to happen during the lifetimes of most of his listeners. I decided to avoid that topic because I didn’t see much to talk about there. I guess that any of their short term preparations might have been in vain unless they served some other purpose as well, but the long term preparations in terms of Zion, temple work, and living righteously seem to useful either way. Perhaps you could expound a bit more on what you think the take home lesson was? |
Millennialism is resurgent in Mormonism. I think that is an important take home message. Every single Saint since the beginning has wondered and likely believed that they would see the end. I think we can still believe in the Millennium without making the errors of our progenitors. |
J. Stapley, You think it is resurgent? I was under the impression that it is a much less popular topic than it was 20 years ago. My personal experience doesn’t extend much beyond that. Do you think that 9-11 and the Iraq war are to blame? Or the fact that some of our civil rights are hanging by a thread? |
Civil Rights? By a thread? Not with George W in office. |
Perhaps cyclical would have been a better adjective. :) |
Also had the lesson this week. Didn’t teach, but actually read it beforehand and had many of the same thoughts, ie “why?”. I made the comment that I thought the people in Woodruff’s day were probably more millenialistic (pretty sure that ain’t a word, but oh well…) (ie predicting the end of the world at any moment. JS even asked the Lord in D&C when the time would be. I imagine that being pushed out of the last 4 places you had been living, then coming to the territory of Utah and being threatened by the US gov would make one yearn for the 2nd coming). Hence the topic might have been mentioned more then, who were apt to think the end was near. Then the talk wandered into what needs to happen first and they started talking about how we can support foreign missionary service. (Which to me is sort of anathema, since the best thing I can do is act in my sphere of influence. Sure I can donate $, but one can make more of an influence acting locally, the whole donating time vs donating $ thing). Anyway, the lesson was sort of weird, but I guess the 2nd coming is an appropriate theme for “the end” of the manual…. |
“… is there a way to do so without resorting to fear as a motivating tool?” The Lord uses fear as a motivating tool quite often in the standard works. “But who are the 5 unprepared?” I think all ten are “active” Mormons. They’re all virgins, they’re all invited, they’re all actually present (they showed up), they all expect the bridegroom to come. “Every single Saint since the beginning has wondered and likely believed that they would see the end. “ A friend says “Jesus is coming when you die.” So your “end” is when you die. Whether the Savior returns in our lifetime, or if we die before then, either event is “the bell,” when you put your pencils down and turn in your papers. The day of our individual death, as to the mortal body, is pretty much analogous to the, or a virtual, Second Coming. “… most of my young men leaders thought it would be around 2000.” Ok, so it wasn’t exactly 2000 years since His birth. And given the 4 year (more or less) calendar discrepancy that many believe in, we have slightly stronger reason to not believe the 1996-2004 time frame as the 2nd coming. So how about 2000 years from the Resurrection? The scripture says no man knows the hour or the day. Therefore, does anyone want to place any bets on the year? “… talking about how we can support foreign missionary service.” 1. Make sure your kids take a foreign language in high school. I’d recommend French as preparation for Africa. Russian, Arabic, Hindi, and Spanish are good choices too if they are available. 2. Make sure your local mission office is stocked with foreign-language Books of Mormon so they can be delivered without having to wait for the 2-week shipment time from SLC Distribution Center. Foreign-born investigators will mention the church to their relatives back home during phone conversations, and may take material back home with them. 3. Make sure your ward library and/or full-time missionaries are stocked with foreign-language Books of Mormon. See languages given out so far for a list of the ones spoken in Indianapolis, which should be a rough guideline for other metropolitan areas. 52 Book of Mormon languages, plus 17 more that have other church material but no BoM yet. 4. Donate to the Perpetual Education Fund, so that young adults in other countries can start to earn enough money in their lifetime to support THEIR future sons on missions in THEIR part of the world. 5. If you have all your kids’ college educations and missions paid for, save up for YOUR mission as retirees. |
J. Stapley, I can live with cyclical. I just haven’t heard much lately. real Matt, The most wandering we got (other than my lame attempts at provocative questions) was when one guy said his brother thought that Salem, OR was the designated gathering place for the Second Coming. I had no idea. It wasn’t clear to me that anybody had read the lesson prior to the meeting. I have to admit that since I am no long in the EQP I have been less likely to read ahead of time. I think we would have had a better discussion if they had, or if I had not focused on my own less than positive reaction to reading the text over and over again. Bookslinger, I think I speak for many here when I say that I am grateful that you walk the walk. I also appreciate your suggestions, which are more novel and more useful than what I heard. I would maybe add Chinese to your list of languages. Of course studying a language is no sure bet. I had many friends that did well in language classes that ended up in the US or UK. |
But you don’t just learn a language to share the gospel on a mission. I’ve never been called on a mission, but I have shared the gospel in both Arabic and Russian. |
#16, I, too, have a deep respect for Bookslinger’s dedication. Good job. Many in Utah are conservatives (big surprise, huh?) and in my little neck of the woods are positively thrilled at the state of world affairs and feel that our involvement in Iraq is just another step toward the second coming. Which everyone welcomes. Me, included. I’m not thrilled about Iraq, but I sure can’t wait to see Jesus descending from heaven. |
15. Yes, those are all things you can do (I’ve done many of them myself). My point was that most the people don’t even talk to their neighbors, yet they focus on foreign missionary work, when there is so much missionary work to be done around them. Or should we all just bombard the Chinese embassy with gifts of jello and the like to convince them to let missionaries in…. |
i also taught chapter 24 and struggled with how to present it. it was a veeeeery weak chapter and even my eqp husband threw up his arms and told me he wasn’t sure what to do with it. (of course they usually just end up with people who read the lesson aloud from beginning to end, which we never do in class.) it wasn’t until i read the comments here that i remembered a bishop telling me a few years back that the second coming would happen in my lifetime. unrelated to that (subconsciously?), i have always worried about it happening in my lifetime because… um… i want it to happen after i’ve seen my kids and grandkids live full lives here on earth. weird, i know. i get almost panicky about it sometimes. one thing i got from the lesson was that people are concerned that the second coming will never come. i’d not thought that before and it struck me as odd that someone would think that. although the same ward with the afore-mentioned bishop also lost about a quarter of its members when a large extended family up and moved to jackson county in 1998, taking a few other ward members with them. i wonder how they’re feeling now… as for proper punctuation, i’m all for that. but capitalization?! bah, humbug! |