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Um, are we allowed to use the word “chick” in the ‘nacle? Seriously, though, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The Grammy Awards they received were merely a gesture to welcome them onto the hollywood bandwagon of those who’ve been spewing vitriol at Bush since long before the Dixie Chicks ventured into that territory. If this sets a precedent that the Grammy Award’s become a tool to reward those who sing to the liberal Hollywood Chior, then they’ll soon become a bigger joke than the Nobel Peace Prize. |
I think Maines’ original remarks were over the top. I think the backlash against them was disgusting. I don’t particularly like country music, then or now. All this sudden popularity means is that, now that the war isn’t popular anymore, people suddenly want to make an about-face and piously opine on what a terrible presidency this has been. Anything to help mainstreet Americans forget that they were willing accomplices in the stupidity of the past three years right? Well, it ain’t that simple folks. You don’t wash out years of paranoia, patriotic rabble-rousing, dumb flag waving, and political irresponsibility by buying a couple CDs. As far as I’m concerned, we’re still the same wrongheaded voting public that backed this war in the first place. There have been no lessons learned from this foreign fiasco. People are just mad that we’re losing. But they’ll make the same dumb mistakes again first chance they get. Turns out, I’m “not ready to make nice” either. |
I like their music. The rest is just noise. |
I think Denis Leary had the right idea about people like The Dixie Chicks (yes, this is clean):
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That and the NyQil bit are my two favorite Dennis Leary bits. |
I think the ultimate proof that the Grammies were given for political purposes is that that “Not Ready to Make Nice” song really sucks. I’m just saying. |
Dixie what? |
Well, I’d bet their records still don’t sell and their concerts are still poorly attended. I was never a fan, so no loss. It’s hard for me to realize that Tim Robbins would probably never want to run away with me to the Bahamas, however. It does change the way I look at him and his work. Dennis Leary rocks. Let’s have him be an LDS blogger. |
I’m not really a fan of the Dixie Chicks in general, particularly their politics. However, I did see a video of them doing a cover of James Taylor’s “Shower the People” and quite frankly, it was incredibly well done. These girls have plenty of musical talent. |
I actually kind of liked them, though my husband is horrified by “Good-bye Earl.” He’s a pacifist and objects to glorifying the murder of anyone, no matter how bad they’ve been. In principle, I agree with him. On the other hand, I think he’s from the wrong side of the gender divide to really appreciate the vicarious thrills of the song. heh. I think the band should change it’s name to “The Yankee Chicks.” Though I have liked their music and I wish them all the success they can earn, I think it’s pretty clear that they’ve divorced themselves from Dixie — or at least that Dixie has divorced itself from them, which is not the same thing. In trying to explain to my (Canadian) husband the strength of the South’s reaction, I hit on this comparsion: Imagine if Donnie Osmond (beloved Mormon boy “making good” out there and a kind of cultural ambassador) said publicly that he was ashamed of President Hinckley (respected and loved leader). While I’d hope he wouldn’t get any death threats, I think the LDS community’s reaction would be similarly strong. My husband was saying that he thought the Chicks deserved the awards in compensation for all that they’ve lost since the controversy. I can’t agree. The awards are (or should be) for musical excellence, not political leanings. The Chicks were not robbed; anything they lost was the natural consequence of alienating their audience. They are owed nothing in compensation. |
“I think it’s all hoockum.” You might have a point if the Dixie Chicks’ political commentary was a gimmick that they only discovered after the 2003 incident. But that ain’t the case. Dixie Chicks music had been anti-war and pro-free-speech, even prior to the 2003 incident. The grammy-nominated album (HOME) that was high on the charts at the time of their 2003 tour included the anti-war “Travelin’ Soldier,” and also “Truth No. 2″ which starts out, “You don’t like the sound of the truth coming from my mouth…” So what do you think of Toby Keith, who made a lot of money by trashing the Dixie Chicks and belting out kick-ass pro-war songs like “Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue?” The Iraq war was a boon to his career. Is that also “hookum?” “Their audience however has made its feelings clear: “When you talk like that, you do not represent us.†‘ Their audience has made its feelings clear, by voting with their wallets. The latest album topped Billboard charts for weeks, and set a weekly sales record. So them and their audience seem to be doing just fine, thank you kindly. I’m a Texas Ex (grad of Univ. Texas at Austin, a school that the snooty Bush family with their ivy league educations wouldn’t consider, even though the grad program in my field is higher rated than Yale’s). I’am also a longtime fan of the Dixie Chicks. I thought their 2003 comment was spot on, as I was also embarassed that President Bush was from Texas. I also travel abroad, and try to explain to locals that not all Americans support our government’s actions, even though we are supposed to be a democracy. I don’t expect people to be interested in the Dixie Chicks because of the controversy or politics. Their music is enough. |
“I think Maines’ original remarks were over the top.” I didn’t. In an episode of West Wing, the top candidate to be the president’s personal secretary has an FBI file with record of letters that she had written against his policies. And yet, the president hires her. Why? “President Bartlett,” he reads, “Your letters referred to me as President Bartlett. You never disrespected the office.” Along those same lines, over in the DAMU, folks refer to church leaders as “Hinkley” and “Monson” in order to deny their posiitons of leadership and withhold respect. But how did Maines refer to President Bush? The news reports I read said it was, “Just so you know, we’re ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas.†She didn’t call him “Bush.” She referred to him as the president. She didn’t disrespect the office. |
“Their audience has made its feelings clear, by voting with their wallets. The latest album topped Billboard charts for weeks, and set a weekly sales record. So them and their audience seem to be doing just fine, thank you kindly.” From what I hear and understand, their audience is now mostly in Canada. That’s fine, people can like them! My post was not intended to diss them, just the hype surrounding them. |
“Though I have liked their music and I wish them all the success they can earn, I think it’s pretty clear that they’ve divorced themselves from Dixie — or at least that Dixie has divorced itself from them, which is not the same thing.” But this is making the asumption that Country Music = South which makes about as much sense as the assumption that Mormon = Utah. And keep in mind that much of the 2003 boycott was NOT the reaction of individual country music fans. Rather, it was a corporate decision on the part of Clear Channel media, which runs a lot of country music stations and is owned by a friend of the Bush family. “Imagine if Donnie Osmond (beloved Mormon boy “making good†out there and a kind of cultural ambassador) said publicly that he was ashamed of President Hinckley (respected and loved leader). ” I’m not sure this is a fair analogy. The Dixie Chicks were never as beloved in country music as Donnie Osmond. Women in Country Music always have a rough row to hoe, and lots of women’s studies folks believe that sexism played a major role in the dissing of the Dixie Chicks. Also, fewer than half of Americans even voted for Pres. Bush. I don’t think his approval rating has ever been near that of Pres. Hinckley. (A lot of political scientist think he would never have been elected if his brother hadn’t been governor of Florida at the time, and helped with the electoral irregularities.) I think the strong sales of the Dixie Chicks new album speaks to how their audience feels about the group. Apparently their fans don’t have a problem. Also, I find Darryl Worley’s new song “I Just Came Back from a War” to be far more anti-war than anything the Dixie Chicks have done. Yet it is climbing the charts and being played on stations that still aren’t sure if they can play songs from the Dixie Chicks yet. |
“try to explain to locals that not all Americans support our government’s actions, even though we are supposed to be a democracy.” Forget explaining that to foreigners for a minute and try explaining it to me. What is it about true democracy (in contrast to our “supposed” democracy) that would lead you to believe that all citizens would support their government’s actions, whatever they are? Isn’t that kind of claim usually made by totalitarian dictatorships which regularly report 99.9% electoral support for whatever miscreant is currently terrorizing them? Do you understand that sometimes democracies yield results that you and a lot of other people don’t like, but are still democracies? |
They did not proclaim themselves non-Dixie when they announced that they were embarrassed by the president. I was born and raised in and currently live in the South, and you’d best not be implying that my negative opinion about the president makes me any less Southern, because I would be liable to take that personally. The president’s approval ratings, even in the South, are not exactly at 100%, and weren’t when the remark was made, either. The reaction to the Chicks had a lot more to do with the country music fanbase than Dixie. Not all Southerners are country music fans, and not all country music fans are Southerners. That said, the Dixie Chicks are doing just fine without your money. They have expanded far beyond their initial fanbase. They are not whining for you to feel sorry for them. Boycott them. Plug your ears. It’ll be your loss. |
I’m a Texas Ex (grad of Univ. Texas at Austin, a school that the snooty Bush family with their ivy league educations wouldn’t consider Naismith, # 11, Given that Jenna Bush, daughter of George W. and Laura, graduated from UT Austin in 2004, in what sense is your statement true? You certainly have a right to your opinion, but you should at least get the basic facts straight. |
I think I need to re-state something here: I didn’t write this post to trash the Dixie Chicks. I’m just annoyed by the hype. I was stating my impression of things. I did not mean that everyone from Dixie had to hate them or that Dixie is the sole support of country music. I’m not boycotting the Chicks nor advocating for anyone else to do so. It’s a simple fact (which may have changed since the last time I heard it) that their support in the south melted away in the wake of the controversy and hasn’t rebounded yet. Nor was I saying that all Southerners of necessity love the president. I would characterize the reaction as an in-group/out-group problem: we can complain about our leaders all we want to each other but we must present a united front to everyone else. (That being the feeling I think a lot of people have about such issues.) |
I liked the Dixie Chicks until they got played into the ground. How many times did I have to hear their cover of “Landslide”? Just make it stop! I’d never heard their recent song until they kept winning for it on the Grammy’s. I have to say, some of those lyrics are really cringe-inducingly bad. |
Re 15. I am not arguing in the least with your logic, I am just saying that as one travels around the world, individual Americans do get held responsible for their country’s actions, even though those individual Americans had nothing to do with the the latter. When I lived in Germany in the 1970s, there were still towns where Americans couldn’t be served at a restaurant or find a place to stay. Natalie Maines comments in 2003 sounded very much like the response of someone who had been hearing from taxi drivers and folks all day, “So, you yanks are going to play the cowboy and take on Saddam, eh?” Re 17. I probably should have said “the Bush family of my generation,” which is what my comment was based on. I left Texas some years ago and didn’t realize that; thanks for the correction. So at the time Jenna made her college choice, was it ever explained whether she had tried to get in to dad’s alma mater and was settling for UT like a community college, or was it the politics of dad being governor? |
You know what, no way. The Dixie Chicks represent our country when they go around the world singing to millions of people. When people here them criticize the president, they think they’re speaking for everyone. They have no right, just no right. If I go to England and criticize him, nobody cares. Those who have a huge ear from the public have a responsibility. Eve is right, the Dixie Chicks’ receiving the grammy was a pat on the back from the liberal entertainment industry, not a public appreciation of their talents. We’re talking apples and oranges. If they want to make it on their talents alone, they should keep their mouths shut about public issues. It’s Barbra Streisand, it’s all of them totally dissing the public as stupid, while using the money they make from the stupid masses to buy their Porsches and lobster. Screw them. |
To the great good fortune of all, I can’t find the recording I made of this song back when the DCs first made their London remarks. Here, though, are the lyrics: Dixie Chicks I’m ashamed that the Dixie Chicks are from Dixie To stand on a stage off in a foreign country (Chorus) If instead of London they had been in Houston, Here in the States we’ve got the First Amendment (Chorus) When they found out that country fans were angry, When folks go mixing politics with show biz (Chorus) |
I certainly agree that if Natalie would have made her comment on enemy soil, ala Jane Fonda, it would have been an insult to our country and possibly even treasonous but the fact remains that she was NOT on enemy soil. The U.K. is by far our closest ally in this confrontation. Their soldiers fight, and die, right along side our own. Great Britain has been our political associates and international teammates for many years now and we have worked together to make the world a better place. Their troops put themselves in harms way for the sake of our freedoms just as much as their own. Neither side wants to see their loved ones make the ultimate sacrifice, but by working together both countries benefit. It was NEVER a mistake for Natalie to make her comment in Great Britain when the safety and well being of their soldiers are equally affected by this conflict. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly misinformed and probably doesn’t have many friends to begin with. I also don’t believe that the majority of people who support the Chicks are indicating that the country has no right to retaliate as they have. Most people understand that we have a perfect right to stop supporting the Chicks if that is our desire. What most of us cannot comprehend is the reason behind the boycotts. The demographic that has shown such disdain for the Chicks is notoriously the most patriotic part of the country; i.e. they traditionally wrap themselves in the American flag and fully support the philosophy of personal rights laid down by our fore-fathers to protect us from monarchal and autocratic governments. What does it say about our Constitutional Bill of Rights when such a formidable group of self proclaimed patriotic people can easily disregard a key point of that doctrine which is the civil right to express contempt for our government without the fear of reprisal? We are basically indicating that our government has no right to punish the Chicks because they did not commit any crime in the eyes of our constitution, yet we as citizens have the ability to circumvent the Bill of Rights and punish them anyway by publicly harassing them and boycotting their music. That same section of the country was shocked and appalled by the ‘89 Tiananmen Square Massacre in China, blaming the episode on the dictatorship rule of communist China. We felt comfortable that it could never happen in this country because we fully allow peaceful civil dissention and public displays of government disapproval. I am NOT comparing the outrageousness of that incident with that of the Dixie Chicks, but I am comparing the philosophies put in place by our bill of rights to prevent such an event from happening to our citizens. After all the killing that occurred in Tiananmen Square, it was widely reported that the young student that peacefully stood in front of the tanks was executed shortly after the incident, so of course the Dixie Chicks episode is not even remotely on the same level, but that is all the more reason why we must be very cognizant of the freedoms and protections that are given by our Bill of Rights and never take them for granted so that future generations will not be able to easily thwart someone’s civil rights when an episode takes place on a much larger scale. “Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official. The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” — Theodore Roosevelt |
Wes, you have not convinced me. You have not convinced me that the Dixie Chicks weren’t saying, “I’m ashamed to be an American” which is what I felt they were saying. Also, “the rest of America is stupider than we are, we speak for the smart ones.” Does anybody know how their concerts are going and record sales since the award? |
Re 24. Anne, I thought of your earlier Barbara Streisand comments a few weeks ago, when I attended an Arlo Guthrie concert. One point to consider is that I think there is a difference between entertainers who have always included political statement as part of their artistic expression, which Guthrie certainly has and which I would argue that the Dixie Chicks have done as well. Ditto for Peter, Paul and Mary and the Tibetan monks. People who go to their concernts KNOW that they are going to hear political statements, both during and between the numbers. It’s part of the ticket they are buying. To me, that is less objectionable than buying an expensive ticket for a performance that one assumed would be only musical, non-political, only to have to listen to a political rant. For which I think some annoyance is totally justifiable. And for the record, in March 2003, I *was* ashamed to be an American. Why is that a problem? It was a stupid war. There was no plan for winning the peace. I’m ashamed when my country does stupid things. In February 2003 I wrote a column for my local newspaper talking about the lessons of the movie THE BATTLE FOR ALGIERS and John Hersey’s book A BELL FOR ADANO. It doesn’t make me less patriotic that I thougth the war was stupid. I’m an Army veteran and I love my country as much as anyone. I can still be ashamed when the government does something stupid. |
According to Wikipedia (sterling example of journalism and scholarship that it is), the Dixie Chicks are doing all right in terms of concerts and sales but that most of their money comes from Canada these days. “Hoser Chicks?” ;) |
What I don’t understand is why the same people who condem the war in Iraq tend to advocate the US getting involved in Darfur and other such places. I would *love* for something to be done about the situation in Darfur but we only have so many resources. Why is the idea of our soldiers fighting and dying for our brothers and sisters in Darfur more righteous and acceptable than the idea of them fighting and dying for our brothers and sisters in Iraq? |
We could use our limited resources to do more good in Darfur than we can do in Iraq at this point. Military analysts say that we are doing more harm than good to our brothers and sisters in Iraq by staying there and continuing to fight. The death rate for Iraqi civilians is higher now than under Saddam. Iraqis can’t trust the police if they’re of a different religious persuasion. They’re fleeing the country in droves. Why do you want this situation to continue? Why can’t you admit that we have screwed this up so royally that our every attempt to improve things just sinks us deeper into the quagmire and brings Iraq closer to being a failed state? |
I haven’t lived in the USA since 2001, and so I was completely mystified by why this got any notice at all. The President is generally seen in Europe (and the world generally I imagine) as a Grade A Moron (with all due respect). The war in Iraq was seen as corrupt and outrageous fdrom the beginning. You have to remember that this was the freedom fries and ‘Mission Accomplished’ era, when the media outlets here were scoffing openly at the idea of WMDs or any sort of peace in Iraq. To say you were ashamed to be associated with the president when in Europe seems completely normal to me. I went through the same thing when Gov. Shwarznegger (sorry for the spelling) was elected. I rolled my eyes and shook my head many many times. |
Here’s my take: I don’t agree with what Natalie said….but I also don’t judge their music because of their politics. They are two seperate things. Natalie has the purest voice I have heard in decades. They are beautiful girls and very talented and sweet. It was her opinion. The fans also have a right to have an opinion as well. If you don’t like them because of what they said, don’t go to their concerts or buy their CDs and just give your opinion about the situation. That’s how free speech works but the death threats were uncalled for and almost criminal. Taking their songs off of the radio was wrong too. I just bought their CD and their documentary. Their kids are on it and they are CUTE! So are all of their husbands! My favorite songs are: Truth No.2, Voice Inside My Head, Lullaby, Easy Silence, Top of the World, and The Long Way Around, Cowboy Take Me Away, Not Ready To Make Nice. |
I am a fan of the Chicks, I did not agree with Natalie making the statements she made, and I don’t think they should have been presented awards for their endurance of the back lash that resulted but I do have to say that I am glad they stood their ground! Even though I disagree with them making comments on forein soil about the president, I am a stron supporter of the right to freely speak about our government. It really scares me to think people want to suppress this freedom. Their song not ready to make nice says it all! They are not ready to bow down to the masses! good, but don’t come crying if the masses decide not to bow down either and talk with their wallets. Sorry, I am starting to ramble, |
Sorry, Gene, can’t go with you on that. I think they hoped to jack up their lagging sales. If my husband, who sells cars, told the people who came to buy his cars his political views, knowing it would offend them, he should expect that people would walk away. It’s inappropriate. Especially when they make so much money off these concerts, to use them for political purposes. When a person does that sort of thing, especially a celebrity–although, it could be a car salesman–it’s a slap in their fact to their customers. It’s hubris to suppose that they have a special right to insult people who pay for them to entertain them. They have the right as citizens to speak out, so does my husband. And his customers have the right to buy elsewhere because of it. He can’t say, “hey, it’s my right, you have to listen and help me pay my bills while I’m doing it.” |