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Very good green leafy food for thought :). Boy, would I love to get a back rub from my visiting teachers. |
I have a good friend who converted to Buddhism and practices most of his religion except he has not given up his smoking. It is funny to watch him sitting on the ground and chanting with the Buddha with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. However, I think your analogy is incorrect. While inactive Latter-day Saints or cigarette smoking Buddhists do not practice all of their religion, they accept the primary focus of their religion and implement it into their lives. The primary focus of mormons is the centrality of the Lord’s Atonement. The primary focus of Buddhism is acceptance of the four great truths. Likewise, the primary focus of vegetarianism is not eating meat. As you have not implemented the primary focus of your vegetarianism, you are, in fact, not a vegetarian. Sorry. |
Michael – I think the challenge is determining who has implemented it into their lives and who is culturally a Mormon. My sister has not been to Church in 20 years save for an occassional funeral or mission farewell. Yet, she considers herself Mormon, but breaks all of the commandments. By your criteria she would not be a Mormon… I can’t tell you the number of Catholics I have met who don’t believe most of the doctrine, never attend Mass, yet, they would defend their faith to the death… Seems to me that many religions become pseudo ethnic groups over time… |
“but breaks all of the commandments.” devyns, not all of them! Right? |
Just tell them you are a less active vegetarian |
Tagore, I think I understand. You have the desire to be a vegetarian. …but there are bad days and you haven’t found yourself to be fully “disciplined” when bacon is on the table. I know man. I am a would be vegetarian. Bacon and a good fillet of mignon are always a the deal breaker! mmmmm…monsanto-y goodness |
that should have read would be vegan. |
“all of them”? Wow!!! Does that include cursing, swearing, taking the name of God in vain, selfishness, greed, envy, pride, murder, adultery, fornication, stealing, disobedient to her parents, coveteous of her neighbors’ goods, the word of wisdom, tithing, visting teaching, gluttony, denying Christ, denying the Holy Ghost, denying the Book of Mormon and the restoration and the prophet and personal revelation and everything!!! I am so sad for her. I have never met anyone who broke all the commandments. Does she know she is going to outer darkness and can never be visited by her family? Or, is it instead that she has broken merely the “outward” behavioural commandments popular in the mountain west such as WOW, adultery, cursing, swearing and what not? Which brings up a good threadjack question which sort of relates to vegetarianism – How come mountain Saints don’t consider gluttony on the same level as the WOW? Wouldn’t interpreting the WOW as a vegetarian manifesto cut back on the gluttony and the resulting weight problem out there? |
I considered being vegetarian but it didn’t last more than a month. After I forgot the initial resolution and ate some meat, I considered all the varieties of food I’d be missing out on. Also, I considered the awkwardness that vegetarianism might create in some social settings. The fact that I enjoy eating meat, along with those other points, pretty much showed me that I wasn’t going to be a very sincere or long-lasting vegetarian. |
ahhh mike, thank you. and your gluttony question… a big gold star for you today! devyns, I know what you meant. I wasn’t picking on you. heck, your my fav on this blog. |
“I considered the awkwardness that vegetarianism might create in some social settings.” unlike the abstinence of alcohol and coffee. |
Mfranti, for me that would be in addition to abstinence from alcohol and coffee. Abstaining from a few beverages usually isn’t that big a deal. There are almost always alternatives that are easily available. [Though I shudder at one age-old memory of an all-day BBQ where I became exceedingly thirsty and there was nothing left to drink but Tab soda.] It’s different though, I think, to sit down in a social setting and refuse to partake of the main course or perhaps even a series of main courses. It seems to me that the hosts might more easily be offended after all that work. Also, I don’t want to be the person who forces a host to create a special vegetarian dish so that I can enjoy the meal. That sort of thing. But I won’t profess to be that noble. The main reason I won’t be vegetarian is due to selfishness rather than sensitivity. I really, really like hamburgers, steak, chicken, hamburgers, hot dogs, bacon, hamburgers, ribs, schwarma, sausage, hamburgers, kabob, salmon steak, hamburgers, pepperoni, pot-roast, meatloaf, buffalo wings, hamburgers, etc. |
i was going to post that I wasn’t being literal. |
let me get this straight. you like hamburgers. |
Mfranti, sometimes it is frightening to witness the level of discernment that exists among the Saints. I forgot to mention glazed spiral ham. |
mmmm… pork products. my brain is not processing your last comment. |
This is why the Lord gave us the beatitudes. To remind us not to pick on those who fall short in their desire to be faithful. To any cause. |
What do you call a vegetarian who eats fish? Liar. “Vegetarianism is harmless enough, though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness.” -Sir Robert Hutchinson |
Why does vegan cheese taste so bad? It hasn’t been tested on mice. |
#18 |
mfranti: It is bacon, the seductress of men, that has proved the ruining of even the most stalwart. Perhaps this was the thorn in Paul’s flesh? (2 Cor. 12:7) Hi danithew, my name is Tagore, and I also like meat. There are people who can help. Let’s not abandon hope in the face of our “murderous dispositions” and “beastly appetites” (see Hyrum Smith quote below). “God…knows what course to pursue to restore mankind to…pristine excellency and primitive vigour, and health; and He has appointed the Word of Wisdom as one of the engines to bring about this thing, to remove the beastly appetites, the murderous disposition and the vitiated taste of man, to restore his body and vigour, promote peace between him and the brute creation…” (Times and Seasons 3:799-801) |
tagore I knew it was bacon! even the best vegans i know have a hard time with bacon. |
Tagore, I appreciate your kindness and outreach and all … but this is going to require a major intervention. |
good. the first step is recognizing that you need help. |
danithew: Just don’t stop calling yourself a vegetarian. Once you let others define you, you’ve given up hope. mfranti: So would you say bacon is good, or evil? If evil, how can something so good be evil? |
to be serious now… where does one draw the line when judging others. cause that is really what this is about. as a group, I think we find it very difficult to accept someones shortcomings–especially when they profess to be something (lds, vegetarian) not that I think I am great, but I think it’s a hell of a lot easier to just accept that bro joe likes to take his car to show on sunday afternoon than attend church. instead, many of us get so caught up in our idealized standards and see the other person as amazingly flawed(and somewhat less of a person) for and basically admitting, “hey, I am a sinner, see?” |
Oh good grief. You people have no idea of how to be a good vegan. All you need to do to make vegan cheese more palatable is to pile it high with bacon and it’ll taste just fine. Same with soy hot dogs. Throw enough texas chili on it and you’ll never know the difference. I wanted to be a vegetarian when I was young, but I had a personal epiphany. I was watching some great animal special and I was thinking to myself: We’re no better than the beautiful animals that God created for us to live side by side with. I should live like that really graceful gazelle and simply live off what the land provides. Then it was eaten by a lion and I decided it was better to be the eater than the eaten. If I am no better than the lion or the bear, than it must be okay to eat as the lion and the bear. I’m sure it does not apply to anyone else, but that was the reasoning my teenage mind went through when I made my decision. |
tagore, bacon is GOOD. Always good. My MIL moved back from morocco for bacon. True story. |
mfranti – no offense taken, well not too much, but since you are a like minded science type, I will let it go… Seriously, that was a very loose statement of mine so mea culpa… She certainly breaks the outward commmandments, but she does keep the WOW on eating as she is not overweight… Michael – gluttony, but then what would happen to all of the ice cream shops? |
…another reaason not to go vegan. I love the Spotted Dog Creamery. |
I personally think avoiding meat is good, but not because I am against eating meat. I am more upset at the way animal life is treated before I eat them. I am alot more comfortable eating something that lived a happy life. I simply think we should be more humane in the treatment of animals while they are here. |
“I am alot more comfortable eating something that lived a happy life.” I could agree with that. While I wouldn’t turn it down, meat from animals that lived unhappy lives simply doesn’t taste as good. Happy chickens, happy cows, happy fish and happy pigs just taste better. |
Great post. Most people don’t know this, and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I was actually a vegetarian for more than 5 years. I did it for health reasons — it was an easy way to keep fat out of my diet. I also stopped being a vegetarian for health reasons, because my diet eventually ended up consisting primarily of Cheez-Its, Lays potato chips, Pringles, and Tostidos corn chips. As it happens, my eating habits never really recovered. To this day, I eat mostly Cheez-Its, Lays potato chips, Pringles, and Tostidos corn chips, plus the occasional McDonald’s hamburger. |
So does all of this mean that I can call myself a supermodel even though I haven’t had the body of one since I was five? I mean, I haven’t given up on my ideals I’ve just faltered (really, really faltered)… |
Bacon is no temptation for me (yuck, pig butt). Crab, OTOH, is my downfall. I indulge on crablegs every year or two. Rather than being a super-strict vegetarian, I allow myself some flexibility when I’m in an awkward social situation (e.g. friends have prepared a huge meal w/o knowing of my veggie-ness). In such cases I will usually eat a bit of what they’ve made unless it’s beef (blech) or unless I have a graceful way of declining (as in, there are many non-meat side dishes that I can enjoy). |
You make a very interesting point, Tagore. On some level, there’s a clear dividing line between Mormon and ex-Mormon, because excommunication and removal from the rolls are definite states for which there are determinative evidence. But in another sense, I think that there are members who wish to distance themselves from the activities of non-practicing Mormons. So that they can say something to the effect of, “Don’t associate me with that person — he’s not a good example of a Mormon,” or even worse, ” — he’s not a real Mormon.” And I often wonder if BYU’s undue emphasis on appearance hasn’t poisoned our entire culture. The correct (and organizationally mature) response is, “Not all people view Mormonism the same way that I do.” After all, even the orthodox among us represent a tantalizingly large range of positions — which is why I tire so quickly of attempts to make orthodox Mormonism sound hum-drum or predictable. But to answer your question directly: Religious affiliation is not at all like dietary affiliation. |
Kurt: What do you call a vegetarian who eats fish? we call them vegequarians |