Comments on: If you can’t stand up for your faith, why are you trying to tear down mine? http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:54:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Guy Murray http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15458 Guy Murray Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:10:55 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15458 <strong>Chanzie</strong> <blockquote>I respect you and your right to believe as you choose.</blockquote> This is as much of a lie as are the defamatory DVD's your groups promulgate. Chanzie

I respect you and your right to believe as you choose.

This is as much of a lie as are the defamatory DVD’s your groups promulgate.

]]> By: SilverRain http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15437 SilverRain Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:02:23 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15437 #20 - annegb - I suppose I've never paid attention to the looks of the official CDs before. Even if it is disguised, anyone watching it would know immediately that it isn't official - or even produced by LDS members. It's not going to convince anyone who isn't already (at least half) convinced. As a good thing - it might even lead some people to sincere examination of their beliefs, which can only deepen faith. I still don't see the point to being upset about it. #20 – annegb – I suppose I’ve never paid attention to the looks of the official CDs before. Even if it is disguised, anyone watching it would know immediately that it isn’t official – or even produced by LDS members. It’s not going to convince anyone who isn’t already (at least half) convinced. As a good thing – it might even lead some people to sincere examination of their beliefs, which can only deepen faith. I still don’t see the point to being upset about it.

]]> By: DKL http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15286 DKL Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:23:58 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15286 Speak for yourself, annegb ;) Speak for yourself, annegb ;)

]]> By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15285 annegb Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:19:56 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15285 Oh, David, she's not going to be damned any more than you or I are damned. Oh, David, she’s not going to be damned any more than you or I are damned.

]]> By: DKL http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15284 DKL Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:17:59 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15284 <b>Chanzie:</b> <i>I grew up in a small mormon community and at that time mormon’s were very clear that they were not Christian's.</i> Impossible. This "Mormons are Christian" thing isn't some recent PR invention. Mormonism has never conceived of itself as anything other than a Christian church. <b>Chanzie:</b> <i>I deeply resent you portraying yourselves as Christians.</i> No serious argument can be based on the fact that you deeply resent something. The dispute about the role of grace alone vs. grace + works has been raging for centuries. Thanks to what Paul said and what James said, Christians of all denominations have been debating this something approaching an eternity. Furthermore, the argument about whether we require the atonement to expiate original sin or just for our own transgressions has been a point of contention for hundreds of years. It's at the heart of the dispute over whether or not one baptizes babies: If you believe in original sin, then the infant needs baptism. If baptism is for remission of one's own sins, then the infant does not need baptism. This is a pretty mainstream dispute, and the Mormon position is not a terribly unusual one. Don't pretend that (a) these issues are a dividing line for determining who is and isn't Christian, and (b) that a few quotations from the Bible can lay these issues to rest. If you don't believe in our Mormon prophets, then you'll have to concede that God doesn't really care what side of the dispute we take up, because if he really cared, he'd have given us a clearer indication of the correct point of view. But if you keep up your current activities, you'll likely find yourself damned for abusing the word of God to justify your attempts to Lord your morality over others. Chanzie: I grew up in a small mormon community and at that time mormon’s were very clear that they were not Christian’s.

Impossible. This “Mormons are Christian” thing isn’t some recent PR invention. Mormonism has never conceived of itself as anything other than a Christian church.

Chanzie: I deeply resent you portraying yourselves as Christians.

No serious argument can be based on the fact that you deeply resent something.

The dispute about the role of grace alone vs. grace + works has been raging for centuries. Thanks to what Paul said and what James said, Christians of all denominations have been debating this something approaching an eternity.

Furthermore, the argument about whether we require the atonement to expiate original sin or just for our own transgressions has been a point of contention for hundreds of years. It’s at the heart of the dispute over whether or not one baptizes babies: If you believe in original sin, then the infant needs baptism. If baptism is for remission of one’s own sins, then the infant does not need baptism. This is a pretty mainstream dispute, and the Mormon position is not a terribly unusual one.

Don’t pretend that (a) these issues are a dividing line for determining who is and isn’t Christian, and (b) that a few quotations from the Bible can lay these issues to rest.

If you don’t believe in our Mormon prophets, then you’ll have to concede that God doesn’t really care what side of the dispute we take up, because if he really cared, he’d have given us a clearer indication of the correct point of view. But if you keep up your current activities, you’ll likely find yourself damned for abusing the word of God to justify your attempts to Lord your morality over others.

]]> By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-15266 annegb Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:53:47 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-15266 As far as I'm concerned this all comes down to people treating other people like crap, principles completely aside. Mormons have treated this woman badly. That's sad. This is between her and God and I actually am sort of the grace sort of person myself. Chanzie, I'm sorry that happened, it happens to all of us. People of all faiths behave in unChristian manner, when you're surrounded by one faith, the bad sticks out. I've been treated like crap by people of every faith. By those standards I should be an atheist. On the other hand, I have dear friends of all faiths, well, except Islam. I've found that people of all faiths have some basically similar beliefs in the goodness of God and our duty to serve others. God's going to work out the kinks in us all. As far as I’m concerned this all comes down to people treating other people like crap, principles completely aside. Mormons have treated this woman badly. That’s sad.

This is between her and God and I actually am sort of the grace sort of person myself.

Chanzie, I’m sorry that happened, it happens to all of us. People of all faiths behave in unChristian manner, when you’re surrounded by one faith, the bad sticks out. I’ve been treated like crap by people of every faith. By those standards I should be an atheist.

On the other hand, I have dear friends of all faiths, well, except Islam. I’ve found that people of all faiths have some basically similar beliefs in the goodness of God and our duty to serve others. God’s going to work out the kinks in us all.

]]> By: lpg http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-14814 lpg Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:10:44 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-14814 Chanzie- Now i understand why you treat us that way because you have a distorted view of our basic beliefs. I can sense that you belong to a "born again " denomination who profess that faith alone is enough for us to be saved and that good works has no bearing in our salvation.I can also sense that you believe the doctrine that "Once Saved Always Saved"(remember Lucifer was already in heaven but was cast out because of rebellion) That is the trouble with some bible bashing "born again pastors" because after reading a few verse from the bible they would interpret the way they wanted it to without considering other scriptural references.The episle of James chapter 2 verses 14 to 26 clearly emphasize that faith without works is an imperfect faith and is dead.Truly,the atoning sacrifice of our lord Jesus Christ cleanses us from our sins but it does'nt end there because we are commanded to become fruitful servants of the Lord otherwise we will be cast into the lake of fire (read Parable of the Wheat and the Tare).The book of revelations(Chapter 20:12-15) also emphasized the we will be judged according to our works.The Lord Jesus Christ frequently used the farmers,laborers or workers in his parables just to emphasize that there are only two kinds of workers and that is the workers of Satan(idle ones included) and workers of God.The doctrine of salvation by faith alone was a product of their mis-interpretion of Ephesians 2:8-10,Paul only emphasize that "works alone " will not save us but it is accompanied by faith and grace of God.Take note of verse 10 which i quote"10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".....the phrase is "we should walk in them" and not we may opt to walk in them. Remember that Jesus Christ is not only our Savior but he is also our Master.We are no longer bound by the Law of Moses but now under the Law of Christ.In the book of James we read "23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. 26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world". There are quite a number of scriptural references that runs counter to the doctrine of these "born again" people and i've seen a lot of debates between born again pastor versus other denominations who believes in good works,non of these born again pastors were able to defend their faith and the verses that they have shown crumbled when compared with the other verses of the scriptures which they disregarded or failed to consider. With these, i am also beginning to feel inclined not to call these people christians because they preach a false doctrine.If i were a Catholic,i rather remain to be one because at least they believe in good works and has a claim that they hold the keys to the Kingdom of God (or Priesthood authority)thru the principle of Apostolic succession. I remember one intelligent catholic laity who spoke before an LDS congregation which i quote" You Mormons do not know the strength of the position of your Church,for me there are only two tenable Churches in the world today and that is the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church; If the Catholic Church is true then all other christian churches are false but if they are wrong then such a restoration is needed; Also,if the Catholic Church is wrong then the Protestants(including those who branched out from them) has no place to go because you cannot get a good branch from a dead tree". I hope this will help you understand our sentiments.... Chanzie- Now i understand why you treat us that way because you have a distorted view of our basic beliefs.
I can sense that you belong to a “born again ” denomination who profess that faith alone is enough for us to be saved and that good works has no bearing in our salvation.I can also sense that you believe the doctrine that “Once Saved Always Saved”(remember Lucifer was already in heaven but was cast out because of rebellion)
That is the trouble with some bible bashing “born again pastors” because after reading a few verse from the bible they would interpret the way they wanted it to without considering other scriptural references.The episle of James chapter 2 verses 14 to 26 clearly emphasize that faith without works is an imperfect faith and is dead.Truly,the atoning sacrifice of our lord Jesus Christ cleanses us from our sins but it does’nt end there because we are commanded to become fruitful servants of the Lord otherwise we will be cast into the lake of fire (read Parable of the Wheat and the Tare).The book of revelations(Chapter 20:12-15) also emphasized the we will be judged according to our works.The Lord Jesus Christ frequently used the farmers,laborers or workers in his parables just to emphasize that there are only two kinds of workers and that is the workers of Satan(idle ones included) and workers of God.The doctrine of salvation by faith alone was a product of their mis-interpretion of Ephesians 2:8-10,Paul only emphasize that “works alone ” will not save us but it is accompanied by faith and grace of God.Take note of verse 10 which i quote”10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them”…..the phrase is “we should walk in them” and not we may opt to walk in them. Remember that Jesus Christ is not only our Savior but he is also our Master.We are no longer bound by the Law of Moses but now under the Law of Christ.In the book of James we read “23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world”.

There are quite a number of scriptural references that runs counter to the doctrine of these “born again” people
and i’ve seen a lot of debates between born again pastor versus other denominations who believes in good works,non of these born again pastors were able to defend their faith and the verses that they have shown crumbled when compared with the other verses of the scriptures which they disregarded or failed to consider.

With these, i am also beginning to feel inclined not to call these people christians because they preach a false doctrine.If i were a Catholic,i rather remain to be one because at least they believe in good works and has a claim that they hold the keys to the Kingdom of God (or Priesthood authority)thru the principle of Apostolic succession.
I remember one intelligent catholic laity who spoke before an LDS congregation which i quote” You Mormons do not know the strength of the position of your Church,for me there are only two tenable Churches in the world today
and that is the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church; If the Catholic Church is true then all other christian churches are false but if they are wrong then such a restoration is needed; Also,if the Catholic Church is wrong then the Protestants(including those who branched out from them) has no place to go because you cannot get a good branch from a dead tree”.

I hope this will help you understand our sentiments….

]]> By: Chanzie http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-14496 Chanzie Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:58:04 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-14496 Dear PDOE and Anngb, Thank you for your responses. I am thankful you have put the anger, defensiveness and hostility behind. I grew up in a small mormon community and at that time mormon's were very clear that they were not Christian's that Christian's were an abomination and only the mormon's ,were right. I think that is still the prevailing belief, but now mormon's want to be considered Christian. Your beliefs are not Christian. They are far from being Christian. I'm sorry if this offends you but it is the truth. You are momons and mormons you will stay unless you change a lot of your doctrinal stances. This is okay with me. I respect you and your right to believe as you choose. We are blessed to live in a country where we have that right. I deeply resent you portraying yourselves as Christians. You are mormons and mormons are not Christians. You may love God and try to serve Him by doing good works, and obey the WOW, and whatever else the current Prophet says you should believe. This is not what the true God requires. He requires that you place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ plus nothing. He states very clearly that good works will not save you...that good works are a result of your knowing Christ personally and your desire to love and serve Him. It's a personal relationship. To even suggest that you can lose your salvation if you sin, confess it and do the same sin again you can never be forgiven is to negate the substitutionary and vicarious death of Jesus on the cross. He shed His precious sinless blood for you and me once for all. If it were not possible to be able to go to Him again and again for cleansing and forgiveness is to say His act of salvation was in vain. When He died on the cross, it was for all sin, past, present and future. Once you come into a personal relationship with Jesus, put your faith and trust in Him, and believe on and in Him, you are saved from sin. Sadly, we all posses that old sin nature and we live in a fallen world. We cannot stop sinning anymore that we can stop going to the bathroom. Only when we we die is the flesh is no longer subject to sin. We aren't sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners. But we can become saved sinners, by God's incredible gift of unmerited favor: Grace. You see, your belief that when Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, did not cause all people and the world to become fallen has everything to do with your understanding of salvation. I can't change your minds about this, but you can search the scriptures and find out the truth for yourselves. You have the ability to see that early mormon leaders were wrong when they proclaimed that the entire Earth didn't fall as a result of Adam and Eve sinning. We are born into sin and this curse is upon us until we receive the salvation so freely offered by Jesus. Our flesh is still sinful and even when we don't want to sin, we do. The Apostle Paul said that he always did what he didn't want to do and didn't do what he wanted. "Who can deliver us from this body of sin and death," he said. (Romans 7:15). I am very sorry this method of witnessing to mormons is so highly offensive to you. As those who appear in the dvd said, "We love mormons and we want them to come to saving knowledge of Christ." We want you to have the truth about the lies of Joseph Smith and other lds leaders. You may think this is a way of showing hatred, but if we didn't love you why would be spend all this money and risk your wrath by passing out these dvd's in the hope that some of you might examine some of your more bizzare teachings. I personally didn't have anything to do with this effort, but I pray it will reach those who are open to at least looking at some mormon practices and beliefs and checking them against sound Biblical doctrine. Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and preach the gospel (good news). Someday I have to stand before a HOLY GOD and explain why I didn't obey His commandment to share the gospel with those who thought they already had the truth. I would rather incur your wrath than have Him look at me in disappointment . I am haunted by the thought that my mormon friends will wonder why, if I said I loved them, I didn't make some effort or attempt to share the truth with them. I also want to share this truth with anyone else who hasn't heard about or knows the God of the Bible. This will be my last post as I realize I am mostly just making you angrier and defensive and even hostile to checking out the truth for yourselves. However, I will be praying for you...I don't mean that in a condescending way at all. I believe you do love God and want to serve and please Him. I just believe you have been deceived by the early leaders of your church and I want you to know the truth. I think it's like you sending your missionaries out to share with us what you believe to be "more truth." In Christian love, Chanzie Dear PDOE and Anngb,

Thank you for your responses. I am thankful you have put the anger, defensiveness and hostility behind.

I grew up in a small mormon community and at that time mormon’s were very clear that they were not Christian’s that Christian’s were an abomination and only the mormon’s ,were right. I think that is still the prevailing belief, but now mormon’s want to be considered Christian. Your beliefs are not Christian. They are far from being Christian. I’m sorry if this offends you but it is the truth. You are momons and mormons you will stay unless you change a lot of your doctrinal stances.

This is okay with me. I respect you and your right to believe as you choose. We are blessed to live in a country where we have that right.

I deeply resent you portraying yourselves as Christians. You are mormons and mormons are not Christians. You may love God and try to serve Him by doing good works, and obey the WOW, and whatever else the current Prophet says you should believe. This is not what the true God requires. He requires that you place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ plus nothing. He states very clearly that good works will not save you…that good works are a result of your knowing Christ personally and your desire to love and serve Him. It’s a personal relationship.

To even suggest that you can lose your salvation if you sin, confess it and do the same sin again you can never be forgiven is to negate the substitutionary and vicarious death of Jesus on the cross. He shed His precious sinless blood for you and me once for all. If it were not possible to be able to go to Him again and again for cleansing and forgiveness is to say His act of salvation was in vain. When He died on the cross, it was for all sin, past, present and future. Once you come into a personal relationship with Jesus, put your faith and trust in Him, and believe on and in Him, you are saved from sin. Sadly, we all posses that old sin nature and we live in a fallen world. We cannot stop sinning anymore that we can stop going to the bathroom. Only when we we die is the flesh is no longer subject to sin. We aren’t sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners. But we can become saved sinners, by God’s incredible gift of unmerited favor: Grace.

You see, your belief that when Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, did not cause all people and the world to become fallen has everything to do with your understanding of salvation.

I can’t change your minds about this, but you can search the scriptures and find out the truth for yourselves. You have the ability to see that early mormon leaders were wrong when they proclaimed that the entire Earth didn’t fall as a result of Adam and Eve sinning. We are born into sin and this curse is upon us until we receive the salvation so freely offered by Jesus. Our flesh is still sinful and even when we don’t want to sin, we do. The Apostle Paul said that he always did what he didn’t want to do and didn’t do what he wanted. “Who can deliver us from this body of sin and death,” he said. (Romans 7:15).

I am very sorry this method of witnessing to mormons is so highly offensive to you. As those who appear in the dvd said, “We love mormons and we want them to come to saving knowledge of Christ.” We want you to have the truth about the lies of Joseph Smith and other lds leaders.

You may think this is a way of showing hatred, but if we didn’t love you why would be spend all this money and risk your wrath by passing out these dvd’s in the hope that some of you might examine some of your more bizzare teachings.

I personally didn’t have anything to do with this effort, but I pray it will reach those who are open to at least looking at some mormon practices and beliefs and checking them against sound Biblical doctrine.

Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and preach the gospel (good news). Someday I have to stand before a HOLY GOD and explain why I didn’t obey His commandment to share the gospel with those who thought they already had the truth. I would rather incur your wrath than have Him look at me in disappointment . I am haunted by the thought that my mormon friends will wonder why, if I said I loved them, I didn’t make some effort or attempt to share the truth with them. I also want to share this truth with anyone else who hasn’t heard about or knows the God of the Bible.

This will be my last post as I realize I am mostly just making you angrier and defensive and even hostile to checking out the truth for yourselves. However, I will be praying for you…I don’t mean that in a condescending way at all. I believe you do love God and want to serve and please Him. I just believe you have been deceived by the early leaders of your church and I want you to know the truth. I think it’s like you sending your missionaries out to share with us what you believe to be “more truth.”

In Christian love,

Chanzie

]]> By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-14125 annegb Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:20:12 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-14125 There is one other thing, too, Chanzie. Mormons would consider it the worst of bad manners to send out missionaries and/or proselyte, say, during the Pope's visit. We wouldn't send out CD's stating why the Pope is not a true religious leader prior to his appearance at a Catholic service. This whole deal is bad manners at the least. There is one other thing, too, Chanzie. Mormons would consider it the worst of bad manners to send out missionaries and/or proselyte, say, during the Pope’s visit. We wouldn’t send out CD’s stating why the Pope is not a true religious leader prior to his appearance at a Catholic service. This whole deal is bad manners at the least.

]]> By: Proud Daughter of Eve http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm/comment-page-1#comment-14124 Proud Daughter of Eve Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:08:33 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/27/if-you-cant-stand-up-for-your-faith-why-are-you-trying-to-tear-down-mine.htm#comment-14124 Chanzie, I'm sorry if I seemed hostile and defensive. I love God and I love His gospel. I tend to take it personally when I hear people smearing either of them but I'm trying to heed Elder Holland's words this morning about the power of words. He reminded us that it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles it but what comes out of it. Chanzie, you made it fairly clear that you are not Mormon. You consistently used "they" in your post; obviously you consider LDS people to belong to a different group than you do. You also missed my point. I know what I believe and I know it is true because I have asked God. God Himself has confirmed His gospel to me and I'm rather inclined to take His word for it. Chanzie, I’m sorry if I seemed hostile and defensive. I love God and I love His gospel. I tend to take it personally when I hear people smearing either of them but I’m trying to heed Elder Holland’s words this morning about the power of words. He reminded us that it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles it but what comes out of it.

Chanzie, you made it fairly clear that you are not Mormon. You consistently used “they” in your post; obviously you consider LDS people to belong to a different group than you do.

You also missed my point. I know what I believe and I know it is true because I have asked God. God Himself has confirmed His gospel to me and I’m rather inclined to take His word for it.

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