Nope–anyone in the public eye has to respect the audience and expect to pay consequences for stupid comments–and especially for racist comments. To call some excellent Rutgers students “nappy-headed HOs” is simply not going to be accepted–even if it was an ad lib and uttered “harmlessly.”
There is some irony that many in the U.S. will practically guild the crap Howard Stern produces as he degrades women and vulgarizes sexuality like he’s chugging beer, but race actually is a holy cow–and with good reason.
As a nation we tolerated an absolute evil. We are still in rehabilitation, and comments like those of Don Imus and Michael Richards indicte we’re far from recovered. If those in the public forum give anyone permission to return to easy stereotypes and dismissive perceptions by their thoughtless words, they need to find something else to do.

I never found Imus amusing. To me he was a cleaner version of Howard Stern. They are just simply disgusting human beings.

What does concern me is the witch hunt going on. The likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have too much influence. Their influence concerns me.

Frankly, I just wish that we, as a country, could move on from race issues. Just thinking about it makes me tired.

I agree with Margaret. It was a stupid and insensitive comment that should not have been said. He should now pay those consequences – maybe he and Howard Stern can do their own little disgusting show together.

While I can understand that offense was given, I think it was ridiculous for Imus to apologize to the likes of Al Sharpton, who is the biggest race-baiter in America.

His comment was offensive, but I don’t find it any more offensive the the lastest offerings of Fifty Cent, JayZee, and Ludacriss, who routinely talk of women as ho’s. Would it surprise any of us if some of the Rutgers players had songs like that on their ipods? It is a lot easier for me to get on board with the outrage when it isn’t quite so selectively applied.

CBS just dropped him

I’m sure that Don Imus will find another network or two to host his show inside of a couple of months (at the latest) and he’ll be back in business again in no time.

Imus is in the business of putting out sound and trying to avoid dead air. It’s unfortunate that he picked these particular words in his attempt to keep generating sound waves, but it’s also unfortunate that we’re so easily offended these days that we can demand someone’s livelihood over the utterance of a few syllables. (I’m just surprised that the person he was conversing with at the time — his producer? — didn’t get in ever more trouble for the things he followed up Imus’ statement with, but I guess if we’re going to demand someone’s head, we’re gonna shoot for the Big Name and not the flunkie.)

I’ve never listened to Imus, and I’ve only seen brief glimpses of him on the TV, and the guy looked thoroughly boring for the brief few minutes I’ve seen him. Obviously, I’m missing whatever it is that has made him so popular. I was surprised to hear Imus classified as a “shock jock” over the last couple of days (about the only person that I associate that phrase with is Howard Stern).

At any rate, it’s not like the guy was caught having sex with minors, or heading up an internet child pRon network, or plotting the placement of dirty nukes in large metropolitan cities or anything. I’d be less than thrilled if he referred to my daughters as “hos”, but I’d just figure the guy is a moron, doesn’t know me or my kids from Adam, is a moron and let it go at that.

Political correctness lives.

I’m sitting here with the transcript in front of me and I think the media has misrepresented this as racist, when, in fact, it is an ugly characterization of the Rutgers team that is at the center of this. First off, the word “ho” is seriously, seriously offensive (although rappers seem to be able to use it without backlash), but if it was racially motivated, I wondered, why weren’t the Tennessee players – also predominatedly black – included in the slur?
As the transcript shows, the comments revolved around Tennessee, who’s players “all look cute” and Rutgers “some rough girls…they got tattoos”. Imus is hardly the first to note that whereas females in sports like tennis, golf, gymnastics, skating, even softball have set themselves apart from men in how they dress and look, many (but not all) female basketball players have sought to emulate their male counterparts by having tattoos, cropping their hair short, and wearing the same type of uniform as men. Hence the remark “the more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors”
Am I defending Imus? Heavens no…the guy’s an idiot. But it is just so easy for the media to pronounce something as racist or homophobic without seeing what is really in play.

Tim, thanks for the reference.

Maybe if you were sitting in your living room, you could comment that one teams’ members were cuter than the others. I might find it intriguing.

I still think he shouldn’t have been fired. If it offended people, they can not watch him.

I didn’t hear what Al Sharpton said about the Duke players.

But I, too, get pretty sick of being politically correct.

Woah there, this isn’t an issue about being “politically correct.” Imus can say whatever the hell he wants. But when you say something that crude in that circumstance, there is a price to pay.

Or are you guys advocating that he not be punished for his crass comments? By not having a punishment, it allows future incidents of even worse natures to come to pass.

This isn’t about political correctness. This is about decency. This is about what is right. Calling a women’s basketball team that made it to the Finals “nappy headed hos” is NOT proper, nor decent. I’m a bit surprised that Mormons, who just heard from their Apostles on the very issue of language, are complaining.

First, let’s put this in perspective: Sure racism is evil. That’s why it’s important that we don’t trivialize it. It’s not like the Rutgers basketball team was falsely accused of Rape, demonstrated against for months, attacked by the professors at their own college, and had their season cancelled. They got called a few names. Boo-hoo. Things are tough all over.

That said, I’m very happy that Imus has been fired. Hopefully this is a death-knell for other DJ’s who peddle the same kind of trash.

I completely agree with Tim J: CBS and MSNBC are part of the problem here. Imus didn’t just “go too far.” CBS and MSNBC have been paying Imus to say exactly this kind of stuff for decades. I couldn’t be happier that it has caught up with them.

That said, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are as bad as Imus himself. Trash through and through.

DKL,

That said, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are as bad as Imus himself. Trash through and through.

I agree with you totally. Glenn Beck is also just as crude and crass. Same with Limbaugh. The overall level of discourse in politics today is horrible.

Mark IV in # 7 said His comment was offensive, but I don’t find it any more offensive the the lastest offerings of Fifty Cent, JayZee, and Ludacriss, who routinely talk of women as ho’s. Would it surprise any of us if some of the Rutgers players had songs like that on their ipods? It is a lot easier for me to get on board with the outrage when it isn’t quite so selectively applied.

I think this point is key and it leads me to believe that there may indeed be a free speech issue here. None of us should agree with Imus’s racist comment, condone it, or laugh at it, but it seems inconsistent that Al Sharpton called for him to be fired and spoke of not allowing the “airwaves” to be used for such comments while at the same time, the airwaves are constantly used to broadcast the trash referred to by Mark IV. Anyone even remotely plugged in to pop culture will know instantly that a huge staple of rap music, which is regularly broadcast on the airwaves, consists of sexist and racist diatribe. When Bill Cosby calls a spade a spade and condemns this kind of music, culture, and language, he is criticized. But Imus is fired for a single sexist, racist phrase because the airwaves can’t be used to broadcast such material.

To be taken off the airwaves because of a comment is a free speech issue. Only imminent threats of harm do not enjoy the protections of the First Amendment in this country. This does not include gangsta rap, Nazi speeches, Mormon bashing movies, or even idle threats that are vague. One can look at this as a commercial issue and say — contrary to Al Sharpton’s stated view — that Imus can broadcast anything on the airwaves but that broadcasters are not obligated to broadcast it if the content breaches his contract with them. That is the beauty of contract law — these types of issues can be considered in advance and can govern commercial relationships. This also explains why Imus can be fired (his show pulled from dozens of broadcasters) for this single phrase and the gangsta rap stars listed by Mark IV, as well as numerous other “entertainers”, continue to be broadcast despite the blatant misogynism in the songs.

It’s amusing to read comments on this thread calling Imus and other entertainers who use offensive language (or those with whom we disagree politically) “trash”. Isn’t that what Imus essentially called the women athletes on the Rutgers basketball team? That they were “trash”? By your own standard, you guys need to clean up your act or I’ll start a letter writing campaign to close down this racist, sexist, anti-capitalist website.

john – my comment was merely an observation (I guess my lighthearted sarcasm isn’t as effective so early in the morning). I generally agree with your #23.

What I found most offensive about Imus’ comment is that he attacked talented young women who worked hard to achieve their goals. Imus’ comment tells black women that no matter how hard you work or no matter how high you achieve – professionally, athletically, whatever – you’re still a [RACIST/SEXIST SLUR].

Dan – Not to speak for john, but I agree with the general idea that this is a free speech issue. Technically, you’re right – this isn’t a First Amendment issue because government actors aren’t involved. So we have to rely on the profit motive to exonerate our righteous (though hypocritical) indignation against Imus in this instance.

I think we need to look at Imus’ comments, however, in the context of the general tenor of the discourse on race and gender in our society to realize that Imus is not the worst offender by a long shot.

ECS: …you guys need to clean up your act or I’ll start a letter writing campaign to close down this racist, sexist, anti-capitalist website.

That would be awesome! If your letter writing campaign ended up being anything like Greg Fox’s and Miranda Park Jones’ efforts to “ban” me from Banner of Heaven, then I can’t wait.

Your assertion of a moral equivalence between Mormon bloggers and Al Sharpton is funny, if a bit strained.

Seth R., it is absolutely never appropriate to compare black women (or women in general) to a gardening implement. Even Ludacris would agree with you on that.

One last thing, Seth. Your comment that a “massive proportion of black culture” is “deeply disfunctional” disturbs me. What do you mean by that? I’m serious this time. These are the kinds of statements that some people feel justify comments like Imus’.

ECS,

Cheap Asian sex slavery is not a stereotype. It’s a reality.

Japanese businessmen in the 1980s used to have company sponsored trips to Thailand (and other places) where each evening included time at a brothel (no mention made to their wives back home of course). Sexual slavery is a harsh reality in Southeast Asia. The Russian mafia also deals in East European and Russian women as well. They lure these girls in with promises of “study abroad programs” in Britain and America and then steal their money and documents… you can guess the rest.

Latin America too.

I talked about sexual slavery because that is the ideal that these rap singers seem to have in mind for their women.

Finally, rap culture is disfunctional. Since that particular art form pervades so much of the rest of black culture, I feel it’s perfectly accurate to point out that a large proportion of that black culture which can be called uniquely black is indeed disfunctional.

Besides, your comments miss the forest for the trees. There’s a much bigger point here that often fails to be addressed as people squabble about the minutiae.

#17, Dan, that’s where my ambivalence comes in. He’s not a journalist, his show is not a news show, he’s a comedian. His defense that his comments were meant to be funny isn’t entirely without validity, reprehensible as they are. So are the rules different? Doesn’t he have freedom of speech like the rest of America? I don’t know the answers, only the questions.

I only heard Dave Chappelle once and I thought he was hilarious. He and Chris Rock expose the hypocrisies of life, not only in their race, but all of America. Maybe I only heard him on a good day.

But wouldn’t it have been better and more satisfying revenge if, instead of firing him, his ratings plummeted? That would have sent him a clear message that people didn’t like what he said. In this case, he thinks the network is caving to PC-ness and most people still like him. He’s not getting the message this way.

#21 Dan, not to be confused with Hillary’s shrieking or that guy who ran for president sounding like a hyena.

#23 John, this is my concern. Do we sign away our right to free speech because we’re on TV?

ECS, excellent point. Hypocrisy abounds in politics. They’re all screwed up.

#34 Seth, Howard Stern’s show is an abomination, you’re right about that. The sad thing is not that he has the show, but that he’s made millions doing that sort of thing. He has fans.

Seth, I agree with ECS, the black community is dysfunctional. My personal opinion is that they can’t find their bearings. Many are still protesting slavery in a day when they need to be focusing on strengthening the family. I don’t condemn them, my family is exactly the same, except they’re not protesting slavery, we’re still caught up on our sad childhood.

Actually, I guess the world is dysfunctional. I mean, who isn’t screwed up? Really.

Thanks for your comments, it’s always a kick when people post on your topic. Makes one feel very cool. :)

“But wouldn’t it have been better and more satisfying revenge if, instead of firing him, his ratings plummeted?”

I promise you, his ratings would not have plummeted–I guarantee you his listeners did not flinch one bit at what he said. In fact, they may have even gone up for a time. Not many people knew who Don Imus was before this. His sponsors panicked due to the (delayed) public outcry–even though the public isn’t doing much outcrying–it’s the media.

john,

#30,

Dan, I guess you overlooked my “commercial issue” analysis in my comment 23.

It seems I did. My apologies.

I’m still trying to understand how this is a “free speech” issue. Who’s right to say what they want is in any way intruded upon here? If Imus himself wanted to create his own radio station and set it up, put all the money required into creating his own broadcast, would anyone stop him? NO. He can do what he will. In today’s world, such a business venture, the creation of a radio show, requires cooperation with various groups, and if you offend them, they are perfectly in the right to decide to drop their support of your program. And it is NOT about free speech.

Look at Howard Stern. He moved to satellite radio which seems perfectly happy with paying him millions of dollars do perform his filth. And no one is really bothered by it.

What if Howard Stern made that comment instead of Imus? What would have happened? Certainly people would have demanded an apology. Some of their demands would have been hypocritical, as many have pointed out. And some would call for him to be fired. But it isn’t about silencing his views. It is about raising the level of decency in our communication.

I wish we, as a society, would stop being so infantile with our radio shows. There are, as many have said, so many worse offenders out there than Mr. Imus. It’s sad to say that this really won’t effect the overall level of discourse in our nation.

Come on, Dan. I’m no fan of Cheney, but that was funny. Oh that Hillary Clinton’s and Howard Dean’s shrieks and Cheney’s use of the f-word were our only problems.

I’ve been listening to Imus for nearly 20 years–long before he showed up on MSNBC and long enough, I think, to view this whole thing in context.

Imus is not Howard Stern. Stern was always a 13-year old in the locker room–flatulence and boobs his staples.

Imus had great guests: Russert, Carville, Michael Beschloss, Doris Kearns Goodwin, McCain, David Gregory, some guy named Mitt, and on and on. He was a great interviewer, provoked interesting commentary.

Mixed in with that was humor, some good, some not so good. Some downright raunchy (but not like Stern) and, with Bernard McGuirk playing the Cardinal (first O’Connor and then Egan), sometimes scathingly anti-Catholic.

Mormons didn’t catch much from him–he did grow up in Arizona so he did have some contact with us–see his interview with Orrin Hatch a few years ago–but, in the midst of a rant about the 2002 Olympics opening ceremony, where the MoTabs sang but were not seen, he wondered if they couldn’t be shown because . . . . [not printable on a family blog].

He was persistent in supporting his causes–the Imus Ranch, the Fallen Heroes Fund, the CJ Foundation for SIDS. And sorry, annegb, but you should have listened to him and the kids who have been to the Ranch and their parents before you said it’s a con.

It’s ironic that people who listen to Imus for 10 minutes can make judgments about the man’s character and complain about his stupid comment about people he doesn’t know.

Mark B. – it’s nice to hear from long-time Imus fans. They’ve been fairly quiet. As for Imus’ comments being a free speech issue, of course by “free speech”, it’s not a First Amendment issue, but normal people don’t understand the legal nuances of standing and government actors, etc., etc. Most people think it’s a free speech issue in the sense that a double standard exists for whites in discussions about race. In other words, why are blacks allowed to use a racist slur to describe other blacks, but this slur is wholly off-limits for whites? That’s, I think, what most people mean by the Imus fracas being a “free speech” issue.

It reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry complains that his dentist converted to Judaism primarily so he (the dentist) could flout social convention and make jokes about Jews.

I caught a couple of news programs after finishing yesterday’s batch of grading. Indeed, rappers who use words like “b-tch” and “ho” and the “N” word are being identified in the public outcry to clean up our communal act. Della Reese and Serena Williams were articulate and to-the-point on Larry King, and Keith Oberman (MSNBC) had some really good guests. It is clear that we are starting to recognize that insulting language degrades not only the target, but everyone–whether or not they choose to listen. It takes our moral sensibilities down a notch. Could it be that Imus will open the exit door for other talk show hosts like Howard Stern, who prey on adolescent hormones and scatalogical “humor” rather than anything substantial or intelligent?
The black culture I know has the deepest respect for mothers and grandmothers. A phrase I have heard frequently (and which younger women ought to be using too) is, “You don’t have to love me, but you WILL respect me.” Women like Della Reese, Maya Angelou, Cecily Tyson, etc., demand respect. I don’t know if anyone else saw _Madea’s Family Reunion_ (there were four people in the theater when some friends and I went to see it in SLC–it never made it to Provo), but it contains a poignant call to betterment. This post is too long, so I’ll put a quote from _Madea’s Family Reunion_ in another comment–coming up shortly.

LOL, Kyle. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint), “buttheads” are allowed to exercise their constitutional right to be a butthead in public venues free of charge!

It IS powerful, isn’t it, ECS. It’s worth the admission price just to see Cicely Tyson deliver it. I lifted the quote from the web, so the punctuation is not standard, but the quote itself is really fine. I recommend renting the DVD. Bruce gave it to me for Christmas. In Utah, you can buy it for a song. Elsewhere in the nation, the movie sold out everywhere it played.

One thing I forgot, relevant to annegb’s original post. Deirdre is incredibly hot!

danithew – Imus’ big mistake here was that he didn’t immediately duck into the nearest rehab and have his press secretary issue a vaguely apologetic statement asking us to respect his privacy during this difficult time.

Well, I actually admire Imus. He has now met privately with the Rutgers team and apoligized to them personally, face to face. I think the apology is sincere, not simply a reaction to fear of losing his job. How many of us would have done the same thing?

There is lots to be ashamed of here, and plenty of people who have acted in a disgraceful manner. Imus has shown himself to be a better man than Al Sharpton or Les Moonves.

You may be right, Mark N. I was shooting from the hip.

Mary Matlin on Cheney and Imus:

The vice president, she said, “has a wry sense of humor.”

“He has the same sense of humor that Imus has. He thinks Imus is funny. He gets good guests on. And he asks good questions. It’s not really strategic or complicated. Not everything we do has to work on 50 different levels.”

And, CraigW #3, it makes me tired too, but it shouldn’t be dismissed as irrelevant to “us” somehow.

I wanted to emphasize the point that the civil rights era is not “over” in some way, so ‘why can’t we just move on?.’ That attitude (esp among Mormons) frustrates me. It’s not over, folks. We’re in it. If nothing else, this week demonstrates that all the more, and we need the senior statesmen of that effort, even if we might disagree with their tactics, dislike their politics, or are turned off by the tenor of their speech. We still need to reach across color and culture barriers, and to stay alive to social change, in ourselves & our nation, or else it becomes a Tower of Babel with everyone’s speech confounded so that we can’t understand one another.