I liked the MTC, oddly enough. I’m sure you’ll have a nice experience.

I don’t remember much about my branch president or his wife, but I was only there for two weeks. I do remember that one of his councilors was unusually cheerful — in a good way.

In my experience serving with the YM, missions are too often sold to boys as something that will set them apart for life. Young women are too often encouraged (within earshot of the boys) to marry someone who honorably served a mission — as though this sets their relationship apart from those of others for life. This creates the perception among the boys of a de facto class system that doesn’t really exist. From my experience and from what I’ve heard, too many mission leaders use their ability to determine which boys make it into this perceived class as leverage to control or manipulate them. There’s likely a lot that effective branch presidencies can do to mitigate the otherwise miserable environment that many missionaries encounter at the MTC.

When I was ward mission leader for about 10 short weeks (I’ve had 6 callings in the past 2 years), the part I enjoyed most (by far) was working with the missionaries. Radiance is a good word for it. I’m excited for you.

I loved the MTC and will never forget Brother and Sister Moody, my Branch President and his wife. Grant you, Sister Moody was smoking Hot, as were all her daughters she occassionaly brought with her. Del Moody, my branch president, was possibly the greatest teacher of the Gospel I’ve ever met in my life. He also apparantly had some sort of Blue Grass Gospel band back in the 70s.

Anyway, Margaret, I will miss you in bloggerdom, but I absolutely know how much of a difference a good couple can make in the MTC.

What sweet comments! I’m off to the temple shortly to work in Spanish (which I will keep up even while learning French). But y’all have got me thinking about what I would say to any missionary trying to learn a foreign language AND decide if he really has a testimony AND memorize _Preach My Gospel_ AND readjust his entire adolescent clock.

One of my strange hobbies is looking at Christian art (generally NOT LDS art). I particularly love various images of the Savior calming the waters. I’m hoping I can be a calming (though enthusiastic) presence.

Fear is a missionary’s greatest enemy. Fear keeps us from knocking on many doors–not just the obvious ones in a neighborhood we might be tracting, but spiritual and linguistic doors.

I have been blessed with an ability to learn languages pretty easily. This gift comes as an inheritance from my linguist dad. But it also comes because I am fearless. I already know I’m going to mess up the grammar, so I just I dive into the language anyway and make friends as the natives teach me how to speak.

As soon as a missionary pauses to conjugate a verb, scared that he’ll say something wrong, everything stops. Sure, he’ll need to conjugate at some point, but it’s the willingness to walk on water for a minute that gets us beyond the structures we must transcend. We are “fools for God” and need to be willing to appear foolish.

When I learn a new language, I involve my whole body–facial expressions, gestures, whatever I need. I leap into it, foolishly and faithfully. I guess that’s counsel I’d give to missionaries too–to take whatever leaps they need to, in language, in sociality, in faith, and trust that they really CAN take a few steps into a miracle.

P.S. to Cameron–I am a hugger and will need to restrain that, I suppose.
P.S. to Matt W.–of course my real goal is that in years to come, some missionary whose name I will no longer remember will say, “Sister Young was smoking hot!”

Vivent les francophones!

I loved the MTC, prepping me to go to France. Being in a BP there will be a unique opportunity. Be one of the good ones :)

Margaret, Congratulations and please do share some of your experiences with us. Count me as one who loved the MTC. I was there in 1981 learning French preparing for a mission to Montreal Canada. The MTC is where I met my first strong Mormon woman role model. (I had only been a member a year.) It was Mary Ellen Edmunds. What a firecracker she was! Much luck to you.

Interesting question about gender and the MTC experience. I wasn’t terribly fond of the MTC. It wasn’t a horrible experience by any means, and I definitely had some good and spiritual significant experiences there, but I also found aspects of it quite distasteful. I really disliked the intense guilt-trips to which (no doubt desperate and overwhelmed) leaders sometimes resorted. (“If you break Rule X, you must not love your Heavenly Father very much.” I mean, that’s insulting. It’s just begging to be answered with a brisk, “Nope, I guess I don’t.”) I was also somewhat horrified when, the second day I was there, we were all forced to stand in unison and recite, at ever-increasing volume, Our Purpose: “To bring souls to Christ through the ordinances of baptism and confirmaion!” “I can’t HEAR you…” The gospel is a pep rally? Who knew?

Another thing that occasionally irritated me was the way we sisters were sometimes shut right out of a speaker’s implied audience. We had one MTC teacher who refused to speak to the sisters at all. He would say things to our class like, “You should see everything you can on P-Day because when you go to Europe in twenty years with your wives, you won’t have nearly as much time.” Um, hello? I’m going to have a wife in twenty years? Not in this church, I don’t think. Maybe the most blatant, though, was the Large Group Meeting teacher who used clips from the Karate Kid to emphasize the importance of obedience, and at the point the beautiful blond girl bounced onstage to hug the Karate Kid at the end, he announced that these would be our rewards for obedience. Ah, yes, I remember now: I’m not an agent of my own life, I’m a carrot at the end of the stick the MTC is dangling in the front of the elders. I won’t even get into the apostle who addressed the entire MTC for nearly an hour without managing to say anything at all to indicate there even were sisters in the audience; it was “you elders” this and “you elders” that. Evidently we were a public embarrassment not to be dwelt upon.

All that said, I had one wonderful language teacher in particular, and my companion was an absolute saint (sadly, I think I was a trial in her life). I liked most of the elders in my district. And I learned a lot about the language and the scriptures while I was there.

Still, I’ve got to say after nine weeks locked up regular mission life was an absolute liberation. Which, no doubt, was part of the point of the whole thing.

Yes–one of the most disconcerting aspects of being a sister missionary is realizing that everyone that talks to you at the MTC and all the mission rules and guidelines are made for Elders. You are an afterthought, if thought of at all.

That is a blessing and a curse, because whenever someone got really petty or started pulling a guilt trip, I would just say to myself “this is for the elders” and it didn’t bother me that much.

Ahhhh, the MTC. I liked the first month, the second not so much.

And I will say I learned more in my first week in the field than I did the two months in the MTC.

DId they change the set-up of the MTC? My MTC branch had missionaries going to all parts of the world–The U.S., Korea, Phillipines, Central America. They have it set up so all the missionaries in a branch are speaking (learning) the same language?

As for the sister thing, my impression is that sisters are on the top of the heap in the MTC. Unfortunately it is all downhill from there. The hierarchy of the MTC is relatively flat compared to a mission. Sisters are generally a few years older than the elders and I think they get a bit more respect because of that. Once they are in the field they aren’t that much much older than their ZLs and are less experienced at the mission thing, so the advantage goes away. As sisters become more experienced they begin to get a parade of continually less relatively experienced elders over them as DLs and ZLs, which from my conversations with sisters on my mission is a source of frustration.

Unfortunately my mission was incredibly rank driven which is bad in all sorts of ways but also leaves the sisters out thus enhancing the divide. When I was in the mission office I tried to get the president to call sisters as replacements for my companionship (I thought they were very qualified) and he gave it a moment’s consideration and then refused.

Ooh, I have a friend who just got called to go to Tahiti.

Margaret, congratulations :) A couple in our ward is now serving in Tahiti. They write me that it is a heartbreaking blend of the very poor and the very rich.
Are you going to be in Tahiti, “going from Katie’s comment about numerous MTC’s)?

Katie, personally, I would think it’s better to be immersed from the beginning in the culture. It seems there would better language uh…learning (I can’t think of a right word lol) there.

Margaret, I’ve spoken several times about the numbers of sister missionaries who were abused as children. Because I was abused as a child, these issues are of particular interest to me.

For instance, a girl in our ward recently went on her mission only to suffer panic attacks and return home after two weeks. I believe she was molested by her brother who is a convicted sex offender, although she denies it.

Are you aware of any particular trend or correlation between molestation and sister missionaries? My sister was on a mission with two girls who were abused, as was she. I have no conclusions to make about this, but I find it curious. I’ve wondered if perhaps the girls remember more because their spirits are softer or if they feel more shame and are trying to assuage those feelings by serving the Lord.

I apologize for the threadjack, could you answer me via e-mail? I promise not to respond :) (that’s the only way my friends will e-mail me) gardnera@netutah.com

One other question, are you at all daunted by the fact that you will be a VIP in the lives of these young people, probably for life? It would scare me to know that people would be looking up to me as an example. Do you feel the pressure of that?

Margaret, thanks for the explanation. I agree that your greater involvement in the MTC is an excellent sign. When I was there I don’t recall the wives of the branch presidency ever speaking, for example. That’s very positive.

Good luck!

This one is on behalf of my dad. This is a post that went out to friends and family last night, written by him, and just happens to fit into the MM discussion. Dad has dialysis three times weekly, and spends much of the rest of the week recovering. Still, he manages to continue visiting the MTC to play an “investigator.” Don’t be surprised by his casual mention of the languages he works in. He has used the “gift of tongues” in God’s service for all of his life.

From my dad:
“Since returning from China almost two years ago, I
have enjoyed the opportunity to serve as an
“investigator” at the MTC Teaching Resources Center.
Once, twice, sometimes three times a week I role-play
the part of a Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, or
non-believer as young elders and sisters give me a
lesson they have prepared.

I get to meet them before they have learned much of
their new language, then I get to follow them over the
next several weeks as they progress in the language.
I have laughed with them over their funny mistakes,
and more than once cried with them being touched by
the spirit. I have constantly marveled at their
incredible progress. A couple of months ago an Elder
Taylor went on to Finland with a fluency in Finnish
that absolutely astounded me. It just didn’t seem
possible, and I judge that without a special gift of
the spirit, it wouldn’t be possible.

This week three sister missionaries taught a beautiful
lesson in Finnish that was as beautiful in its
language and presentation as it was in its spirit.
Yesterday I was invited to serve as “investigator” for
two elders from South America. Their lesson was
beautifully prepared and very well presented. I
sensed it was a real privilege to feel their spirit.

I had not expected to also have the privilege of
receiving a lesson from three beautiful sister
missionaries from Russia, but when offered the
opportunity, I couldn’t resist. Wow! They are
marvelous missionaries. Of course their Russian
almost blew me away, but I stayed the course and by
the end of their lesson, I was persuaded by the spirit
that I must learn more of the message that was so
precious to them.

The incredible evening was capped off by an invitation
to receive a lesson from a Mandarin-speaking sister
missionary. Only after the lesson began did I learn
that she is a convert from Mainland China, from
Yunnan. This sister missionary was so charged by the
spirit, I concluded that in all my experience over
several years as an “investigator” at the MTC, I had
never met any missionary quite as effective as she is.
I hope I can persuade the MTC to allow her to at
least meet Helen Yu, our precious friend from China
who has so far resisted our attempts to interest her
in the Gospel.

I thank God that I have been given the privilege of
serving these young missionaries. God bless our
missionaries everywhere.”

That’s exciting that you’ll be working with the Tahitian missionaries. I did a couple field studies there for school etc, and I’m sure you’ll start to learn a lot of very interesting history about the church there. The church has been in Tahiti longer than it’s been in Utah- in fact there’s a relatively significant RLDS presence there s a result. The first missionaries went out in the Nauvoo period (I think), and when Joseph Smith was killed they all went home to help out with their families. Then RLDS missionaries went out, said “Hey, we’re the Mormons and we’re back!”, and the rest is history. Lots of other cool stories there too.

A faaitoito,
o Tara Tapera

MAC,
Are brow-beatings, especially in the absence of actual disobedience on the part of the missionary, a legitimate gospel or leadership tool? Doesn’t that set a bad example of how missionaries in leadership positions (senior comp, DL, ZL, AP) are to treat other missionaries?

I believe I fell into that trap. After all, if branch presidents and the mission president treated missionaries that way, then that must have been the “correct” way to treat missionaries, right? I was a horrible senior companion, and a worse district leader. I used to think I was a martyr having to put up with all those wild and rambunctious missionaries, but when I finally saw the light 16 years later, I realized they suffered more by having to put up with me.

MAC,
You touch on a point that both DKL and I have pondered. Perhaps the arrogance, condescension, bitterness and unfairness (perceived or real) of leadership at the MTC is (or was, it’s been a long time since I was there) intentional on the part of the Brethren, in order to “filter out” marginal elders, i.e., remove them from the missionary pool while at the MTC in order to save the round-trip airfare to/from the mission field, because if they leave the MTC, they would have left the mission field anyway.

However, that and your other statement “… that it maintained an environment that allowed the largest number to thrive” both connote an “ends justify the means” mentality.

The scriptures and modern church history have examples where the Lord seemed to require exceptions to otherwise hard-and-fast gospel laws, Abraham ordered to kill Isaac, Jacob lying to Isaac, Jacob fighting (wrestling) with an angel, Nephi killing Laban, Joseph Smith lying about polygamy, later church dissembling about polygamy that eventually required the 2nd Manifesto, etc.

When we get to the other side of the veil, and have that great PPI with the Lord, I hope I’ll be humble and accepting enough in case he says “Yeah, that’s the way I intended it.”

Just so as not to leave the wrong impression, I had no problems with MTC rules or regimentation or strictness. I had previously attended a military college, and thought that MTC food was better and the regimentation a lot easier than military school. But one expects harsh drill instructors and trainers in a military setting where a stated goal is to break down the recruits in order to build them up. I would not have expected gospel principles of leadership (I.E., Section 121 & Galatians 5:22-23) to be abandoned at the MTC in order to teach missionaries obedience and how to teach gospel principles. If such conditions still exist, then based on the church’s statements today, I’d say that dissimulation (in regards to how the missionary department and system is run) is still going on.

My advice to young men in the church today would be “Be prepared to be treated unfairly both by leaders and fellow missionaries, but shrug it off, it’s just a test; remember the church and the work is still true, and just keep on doing the right things.”

Bookslinger,

To clarify, when I said “maintained an environment that allowed the largest number to thrive.” I was talking about a situation completely unrelated to the Church. I was relating a personal experience where I was responsible for the performance and behavior of a similar cohort (although secular), a remote corporate training center, 8 hour classroom days, cafeteria, group housing, etc.

I am talking from another perspective. I did have problems at the MTC, not so much with the regimentation or strictness per se, but more so the “perception” on my part that I was being pressured to conform.

To elaborate, I also served in areas very remote to the mission home and interacted with my mission president(s) rarely. I still remember the only interview that I had with my mission president and he took me to task in a fashion that I considered unfair, he barely knew me. Maybe he was jet-lagged, or tired of having to focus all his energies on the troublemakers instead of the goals of the mission? I was generally a hard working missionary who followed the rules, occasionally I was a schmuck. He had heard about the schmuck part and told me to lay off. He was right, whether or not I was somewhat justified in being a schmuck, it still would have been better for everyone if I had just chilled out and redirected my energies. He certainly had more important priorities.

In hindsight, most of my difficulties were of my own making and wasted a lot of energy that should have been directed towards other things (missionary preparation and work). While I did make it to the mission field and had a successful (in my eyes) mission, I blew not a few opportunities in the MTC to have possibly done better, or at least had it easier.

Are there missionaries who show up at the MTC who will not complete a mission, who are lucky to make it past the first few weeks of the the MTC? Absolutely. Is it because of “the arrogance, condescension, bitterness and unfairness (perceived or real) of leadership at the MTC is (or was, it’s been a long time since I was there) intentional on the part of the Brethren, in order to “filter out” marginal elders?” I think a much safer, and in my opinion accurate, assessment is that there are alot of arrogant and condescending 19 and 21 year olds who are predisposed to buck the establishment, any establishment. I imagine that a lot of those missionaries who are “filtered out” are probably self-selecting.

I am not say that “the ends justify the means,” but that it is the people who administer the MTC’s responsibility to maintain an environment that allows for the greatest degree of success. The alternative is choas , to keep a minority from having their egos bruised.

Do you really think that anyone in those leadership positions has any interest in leading by “bitterness and unfairness?” They are just people, forced into addressing and resolving situations that I imagine they have had no part in creating. I don’t think they are bunch of bitter puppy kickers.

DKL,

Accusing someone of “brow-beating, bullying and cheap imitation” and taunting the MTC mission president over and over with the barb, “did the spirit just tell you to tell me that?” sounds like a teenager’s emotional debate over their curfew.

My experience is that any organization which operates through brow-beating, bullying, and cheap intimidation has a very low success rate, something that can’t be said for the missionary training program. It is a unique program, run by some very exceptional people.

My argument might have the same ring to it as Socrates, but the realty is that some very wise people walked a fine line between steering me towards correct behavior and me jumping over the wall in the middle of the night. For these people I am grateful. Was it done clumsily, in some cases yes. Were their motives 100% pure, I don’t know, but people are human. They didn’t kill me, I learned something from the experience, but at the end I would have done much better to simply shut-up, sit down and obey my leaders.

To borrow a phrose from DKL, what’s more to the point, no one else is going to make it the best two years of your life without your support.

A mission should be a challenge, if it isn’t something is wrong. If you choose to let your ego be *your* challenge, don’t blame others if it isn’t received graciously. The individuals running the MTC are tasked to do just that, run the MTC. Do I think that dissent to “keep them in line” would in anyway improve the missionary training program, no I don’t. Not because the people running the missionary training program are infallible, but because missionaries have a very short and concentrated period to learn what they need to and if that time is spent kicking against the pricks they will have blown a unique opportunity to make the most of what could and should be a trans formative experience.

MAC, I’m sorry to hear that you had to get kicked around a bit in order to straighten up. Based on your comments as Matt on the thread on homosexuality and your comments here, it sounds like perhaps you could use a little bit more. For some people, it takes a stint in prison to straighten them out, though incarceration is generally a poor tool for effectively addressing most organizational behavior issues.

Seriously though, it’s truly bizarre that you think that it’s OK to treat people the way you describe who have chosen to serve the Lord by going on a mission.

But you keep changing the subject. The idea that a mission is supposed to be a challenge is beside the point. I didn’t leave the MTC because the mission president was mean to me. I left because he unilaterally decided to send me home after starting an argument and not liking the outcome. If it were up to me, I’d have served out what they call an “honorable” mission. The fact that he brow-beat me and bullied me and fell prey to the taunting of a 20-something year old missionary just speaks to how ineffective the guy was.

In the interest of full disclosure, my MTC experience was in the early 90′s and I have had little more than anecdotal exposure since then.

When I was there, I never saw anything that I would ever classify as systematic emotional abuse. I think it would be a disservice to send someone off to the MTC with the idea in their head that they should be guarded against or prepared to endure constant reproach.

DKL

I think that we probably have different ideas of what “brow-beating” means, I don’t think there is any justification for maltreatment.

Bookslinger

I do not think that abuse seems to be “built into the missionary system” at the MTC. In the mission field I think that what we are talking about exists in spite of the honest efforts of the leadership, not because they are actively attempting to create a “trial by fire.” I would opine that, in most cases, that it is 90% #1 and 10% #3.

As far as post-mission inactivity, the problem must be much more complex than “I was drummed out by mean people.”

DKL,

I’m glad to know that you read my comments so carefully.

DKL–I am appalled at your comment. Absolutely appalled. Don’t you have any rules for this blog?

Are you trying to get me fired? I tried to access the video link on my BYU computer and was promptly blocked. I believe the stop sign also asks for the name of my bishop and my current church callings.

DKL,

All of YouTube is blocked at BYU. I’d speculate the reason is that some of the people on YouTube sport beards. Bandwidth hogging, honor code breaking beards.

I remember one of the members of the Branch Presidency telling me how he enjoyed being a Branch President because you can serve the missionaries and not have the same temporal concerns that a Bishop of a normal ward. I think a lot of people second guess themselves or have petty things come to their mind that make them feel unworthy as they enter the MTC. They need all the reassurance that they can get at that stage.