Comments on: A wannabe’s reaction to The Mormons http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:48:27 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Naismith http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25447 Naismith Wed, 02 May 2007 11:11:27 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25447 "First off, would I recognize myself as a member of the Church she presents? Answer: You betcha." My answer is, I'm not so sure. I never thought that Joseph Smith was the alpha and omega of our religion (that's Christ). As a convert living far from Utah, I think the impact of the history of the church on current members is overemphasized by many intellectuals. I understand that this was part of the AMERICAN EXPEIENCE series, and thus it was going to cover history. But the history of the church does not impact my daily life. If the general authorities said what they said in last general conference, and the policies are what they are, I wouldn't care if the church was founded by a street person from Zimbabwe or a prostitute from New Orleans. I care about living the principles, keeping the spririt, becoming a more godlike person, raising my children. I don't care about how the church got here. “First off, would I recognize myself as a member of the Church she presents?
Answer: You betcha.”

My answer is, I’m not so sure. I never thought that Joseph Smith was the alpha and omega of our religion (that’s Christ).

As a convert living far from Utah, I think the impact of the history of the church on current members is overemphasized by many intellectuals. I understand that this was part of the AMERICAN EXPEIENCE series, and thus it was going to cover history.

But the history of the church does not impact my daily life. If the general authorities said what they said in last general conference, and the policies are what they are, I wouldn’t care if the church was founded by a street person from Zimbabwe or a prostitute from New Orleans.

I care about living the principles, keeping the spririt, becoming a more godlike person, raising my children. I don’t care about how the church got here.

]]> By: Dan Ellsworth http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25327 Dan Ellsworth Tue, 01 May 2007 20:45:55 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25327 Margaret (17), I agree- I have always thought of it as a horrible event, but one I can't really take any useful lessons from; it's just so aberrant and strange on so many levels. I think it may benefit us as a Church to get some exposure to MMM now, given the new "September Dawn" movie coming out soon. I don't think the movie will be broadly viewed, but who knows. Margaret (17),

I agree- I have always thought of it as a horrible event, but one I can’t really take any useful lessons from; it’s just so aberrant and strange on so many levels.
I think it may benefit us as a Church to get some exposure to MMM now, given the new “September Dawn” movie coming out soon. I don’t think the movie will be broadly viewed, but who knows.

]]> By: Times & Seasons » Mormons discussing “Mormons” http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25312 Times & Seasons » Mormons discussing “Mormons” Tue, 01 May 2007 19:49:22 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25312 [...] enough for you, there are discussions of “The Mormons” up at Mormon Mentality, Mor-Mormon Mentality, Faith Promoting Rumor, Feminist Mormon Housewives, Dave’s Mormon Inquiry, and a few threads [...] [...] enough for you, there are discussions of “The Mormons” up at Mormon Mentality, Mor-Mormon Mentality, Faith Promoting Rumor, Feminist Mormon Housewives, Dave’s Mormon Inquiry, and a few threads [...]

]]> By: Margaret Young http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25308 Margaret Young Tue, 01 May 2007 19:46:09 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25308 I wonder why the MMM is such an important event in our history. Does it fit into the Danite construct? Does it validate those who imagine Mormons are a weird and dangerous cult who believe in blood atonement? How far do the implications of that horrible day extend? How do we contextualize it? There was one mention of the Danites, I think--and I'm not certain. And blood atonement came up, though not much time was devoted to it. Was there a thread suggesting that these early organizations/beliefs somehow made the MMM inevitable? I wonder why the MMM is such an important event in our history. Does it fit into the Danite construct? Does it validate those who imagine Mormons are a weird and dangerous cult who believe in blood atonement? How far do the implications of that horrible day extend? How do we contextualize it?

There was one mention of the Danites, I think–and I’m not certain. And blood atonement came up, though not much time was devoted to it. Was there a thread suggesting that these early organizations/beliefs somehow made the MMM inevitable?

]]> By: DKL http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25299 DKL Tue, 01 May 2007 19:13:13 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25299 I've had a number of non-Mormons ask me about the MMM. I think that the large amount of time devoted to it was very constructive. I’ve often said that NPR’s main purpose is to give ignorant people the ability to sound like they know something about some topic. PBS serves much the same purpose with its adult documentary programming (Let’s not kid anyone, they’re doing pretty superficial, mass-market stuff). Another, less pejorative way of stating this is by saying that NPR and PBS provides <i>just enough</i> coverage to de-mistfy a topic and introduce some level of comfort among the audience concerning that specific topic. That said it occurred to me after watching the MMM segment, that the PBS coverage did serve to demystify the event for the audience. Next time the MMM comes up in a discussion that they participate in, instead of listening curiously, folks who watched the documentary be able to offer some amount of sane information about the topic and poo-poo the more sensationalistic information. In this sense, the documentary served a very useful service. I’ve had a number of non-Mormons ask me about the MMM. I think that the large amount of time devoted to it was very constructive. I’ve often said that NPR’s main purpose is to give ignorant people the ability to sound like they know something about some topic. PBS serves much the same purpose with its adult documentary programming (Let’s not kid anyone, they’re doing pretty superficial, mass-market stuff). Another, less pejorative way of stating this is by saying that NPR and PBS provides just enough coverage to de-mistfy a topic and introduce some level of comfort among the audience concerning that specific topic.

That said it occurred to me after watching the MMM segment, that the PBS coverage did serve to demystify the event for the audience. Next time the MMM comes up in a discussion that they participate in, instead of listening curiously, folks who watched the documentary be able to offer some amount of sane information about the topic and poo-poo the more sensationalistic information. In this sense, the documentary served a very useful service.

]]> By: MAC http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25286 MAC Tue, 01 May 2007 17:53:04 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25286 I have to agree that the MMM had a different production feel to it than the rest of the program. It seemed to have a "gotcha" sequence to it, with a wink, wink, nod, nod. "This is what we know...but, let's read between the lines a little." I have to agree that the MMM had a different production feel to it than the rest of the program.

It seemed to have a “gotcha” sequence to it, with a wink, wink, nod, nod. “This is what we know…but, let’s read between the lines a little.”

]]> By: Matt B http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25285 Matt B Tue, 01 May 2007 17:46:18 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25285 Margaret - the title of Act I was "Revelation," which seems appropriate to me. The presentation of the Burned-Over District, the riff on Shipps's use of 'sacred time' for the Exodus; the whole thing felt very romantic to me, rooted in the drama of Joseph's visionary experiences. Margaret – the title of Act I was “Revelation,” which seems appropriate to me. The presentation of the Burned-Over District, the riff on Shipps’s use of ’sacred time’ for the Exodus; the whole thing felt very romantic to me, rooted in the drama of Joseph’s visionary experiences.

]]> By: Margaret Young http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25279 Margaret Young Tue, 01 May 2007 17:31:24 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25279 JRL--I'm trying to think why Whitney chose to spend so much time on the MMM. One thing that comes to mind is the energy of the piece. You have descendants of the Mormons and descendants of the immigrants talk, and you have SCANDAL. That raises the energy level--and she needs to keep her audience interested. Though I agree that far too much time was devoted to it, I do think it established some important things: the rising tension in Utah as federal troops were dispensed to effect some kind of control; the Mormons' extreme isolation; the interaction of Mormons and Native Americans. (That was the only place where Native Americans were even mentioned, but they played an important role in Utah/Mormon history.) It is important to acknowledge that BY was a formidible presence. Many historians call him a despot. Obviously, he couldn't know everything everywhere, but he was a powerful man who organized and supervised his people. He had to be a strong authority figure, otherwise the migration and the Mormon settlements could very possibly have failed or fallen into chaos. (There was certainly chaos in Nauvoo before BY led the Saints west.) JRL–I’m trying to think why Whitney chose to spend so much time on the MMM. One thing that comes to mind is the energy of the piece. You have descendants of the Mormons and descendants of the immigrants talk, and you have SCANDAL. That raises the energy level–and she needs to keep her audience interested. Though I agree that far too much time was devoted to it, I do think it established some important things: the rising tension in Utah as federal troops were dispensed to effect some kind of control; the Mormons’ extreme isolation; the interaction of Mormons and Native Americans. (That was the only place where Native Americans were even mentioned, but they played an important role in Utah/Mormon history.)

It is important to acknowledge that BY was a formidible presence. Many historians call him a despot. Obviously, he couldn’t know everything everywhere, but he was a powerful man who organized and supervised his people. He had to be a strong authority figure, otherwise the migration and the Mormon settlements could very possibly have failed or fallen into chaos. (There was certainly chaos in Nauvoo before BY led the Saints west.)

]]> By: JrL http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25273 JrL Tue, 01 May 2007 17:22:16 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25273 I, too, was baffled by images like Monument Valley. My only strong objection would be to the length of the MMM segment. Sure, it's a tragedy and an embarassment. But other than to express sympathy or to embarass, what purpose does the discussion serve? If there was some suggestion that it reflected a broader problem or that it had a lasting impact on the Church or on society, I missed it. Then again, if they'd edited it more, I might have missed the very persuasive reason for concluding that Brigham Young directed the massacre: that he knew about "everything" (apparently even in advance) that happened in Utah. Good grief! I don't know much about Bagley, but I now know not to trust his conclusions. I, too, was baffled by images like Monument Valley. My only strong objection would be to the length of the MMM segment. Sure, it’s a tragedy and an embarassment. But other than to express sympathy or to embarass, what purpose does the discussion serve? If there was some suggestion that it reflected a broader problem or that it had a lasting impact on the Church or on society, I missed it.

Then again, if they’d edited it more, I might have missed the very persuasive reason for concluding that Brigham Young directed the massacre: that he knew about “everything” (apparently even in advance) that happened in Utah. Good grief! I don’t know much about Bagley, but I now know not to trust his conclusions.

]]> By: Margaret Young http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-25266 Margaret Young Tue, 01 May 2007 16:47:45 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/05/01/a-wannabes-reaction-to-the-mormons.htm#comment-25266 #6-Mac--I have a report from someone who heard Helen Whitney talk about the production and identify Marlin Jensen as her favorite interview subject. Why? Because he didn't use "the voice." (Her words.) (We got only one snippet of Elder Jensen yesterday. We should get more tomorrow.) #6-Mac–I have a report from someone who heard Helen Whitney talk about the production and identify Marlin Jensen as her favorite interview subject. Why? Because he didn’t use “the voice.” (Her words.)

(We got only one snippet of Elder Jensen yesterday. We should get more tomorrow.)

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