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Thanks for taking the time to type all this out. Can I just say how much more impressed I am with Gordon Smith after reading this? Orrin Hatch less so, because I’m predisposed to be irritated by his surfacey showoffiness, although I might have had a softer reaction had I been there. But Gordon Smith — great! |
Thank you – it sounds like a great and moving fireside… |
Ardis, Senator Smith presents himself very well. He also comes across as very sincere. Devyn, it was a very good fireside. The closing song was Be Still My Soul. I had come with a recent convert from my ward and he told me that it was very moving for him. |
Thanks for the write-up, John. |
John Fowles, Thank you for writing these notes and sharing them in this post. This is very powerful stuff. I’m really grateful I could read it. |
Wish you could have been there for the event Dan. |
It’ll be even cooler when British Mormons don’t have to import their VIP’s. There are British Mormon politicians, but they are not as slick as these gents. Mind you, giving religious pep-talks would probably be political suicide. (I’m feeling grumpy, John. Feel free to ignore me.) |
I didn’t even know there were British LDS politicians until someone mentioned there were three or so British MPs from Labour somewhere in the country. As for this Fireside, the Senators weren’t imported. They happened to be travelling through and invited themselves — that is, they offered to speak and bear their testimonies. A “Why I Believe” fireside was already scheduled, I believe, so they put the Senators on instead. It was a great evening and the Hyde Park chapel was filled as was the cultural hall area. Still, the turnout was significantly lower than I would have thought it would be considering that all stakes conceivably in range of London were invited. (For instance, I am in the Romford stake in Essex.) My best guess as to the reasons for this is that U.S. Senators simply aren’t an interesting attraction for members of the Church in England, even if those senators are LDS and even if it is remarkable to have a fireside with two of them speaking at the same time about their views of the Church. One person I spoke with at the fireside noted that perhaps the reason was that MPs constituencies are so small here (he mentioned 30 to 50 thousand), that it just doesn’t seem like anything that extraordinary. |
John, Thanks for the write up; some inspiring stories to be sure. I’m glad US senators apparently aren’t as interesting an attraction, as you say, to the British saints, since I like to entertain the notion that celebrity ought to play pretty much no role at all in determining the value of someone’s religious views or how remarkable a spiritual event is. What a sign of spiritual desolation it would be if there were a positive correlation between attendance and a speaker’s “market penetration,” as it were. |
Peter, |
Thanks for sharing this john (btw it’s Solihull — my home ward! :) ) In England, the church and politics don’t mix any where near as much as they do in the US, which may be part of the reason for the perceived lack of attendance, or maybe that they have no idea who either of them are. Most LDS mormons would never have heard of them. It’s also worth noting as a side, that Elder Johnson is British (by birth anyway!) |
sorry about the bold – can someone please end it after the second ‘l’ at the end of Solihull. Thanks! |
I think the point is more for us to get a sense that people can still get to those levels and keep their testimonies real, keep the fire of faith burning. Are you referring to Orin Hatch’s pro-life stance as being pretty opposed to the British mainstream? Even if they were aware of that, which you seemed to assume they aren’t, do you think that they would bear that in mind as Orin Hatch bears his testimony to them? As for the fame concept, Peter, I think that often it can be reassuring to people to see that our faith is not necessarily a hinderance to the goals we might set for ourselves in our careers. Granted, pretty much only in America is it even remotely possible for a Latter-day Saint to attain such high levels of public service, but to see it can still be encouraging for Latter-day Saints over here. |
John – I think it’s more like his pro torture, pro war, support Bush no matter what stance, that wouldn’t sit well with the British public. |
pro torture? |
That is the current President’s policy (which Hatch supports) (I concede however, that waterboarding and such isn’t considered torture by everyone.) |
john, Senator Hatch has fully supported President Bush’s “enhanced interrogation techniques,” which really are nothing more than torture. His support of these techniques is based on the justification that the CIA is, (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002608571_cheney07.html)in his words, “They’re going to do everything in their power to make sure that our citizens in the United States of America are protected.” Because of course the protection of the American citizen is the highest priority, far above the treatment of our enemy, regardless of the consequences. He has also said:
(from: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/060804hatch.html) Senator Hatch has been much quieter about this issue than many Republicans, mostly because he doesn’t need to bray like a mule to the base to score election day points, like say Mitt “Double Guantanamo Bay” Romney. But, as the leading Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, he has done all he could over the past six years to ensure that Bush’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” got through any real scrutiny in the Congress. |
Bah, dang moderation. |
I don’t see a comment by you in moderation. |
Try in Akismet spam then. |
released it. |
I’m not seeing it. But I understand that you see things differently. My thought would be that fellow Latter-day Saints wouldn’t be holding ill-will toward Senator Hatch while he is bearing testimony to them. They risk political suicide no matter who their base is when they bear testimony or talk about their Mormon religion publicly. A counter example would be Harry Reid. My sense is that although large numbers of Latter-day Saints likely disagree with Harry Reid’s politics, they would still appreciate his testimony. At least that is what I observed when Senator Reid gave the graduation address at my BYU Law School graduation. |
john, I don’t question Senator Hatch’s testimony or belief in his religion, and as a Mormon don’t bear him ill-will. When it comes to politics, that’s a whole different matter. My comment was to expound on Rebecca’s point, showing examples of Hatch supporting Bush’s torture policies. |
Thanks for this post, John. I always enjoy “Why I believe firesides” because they are very personal allowing us to see a side of the individual that most will never know. I really doubt that political ideaology had anything to do with the low turn-out. A fireside is well attended when it is well publicized, in an area with a lot of youth/young adults, and the speakers have a strong celebrity factor. The attendance would’ve been far better had the speakers been Frank Lampard and Johnny Greenwood (hopefully that starts some great rumors) as opposed to two American politicians. If our stake had two English parliamentary dudes speak, I’d consider going but the pull isn’t as strong as say, Steve Young or Steve Martin (haha). |
Truth be told, it was well attended as the chapel and cultural hall both filled up. |
Matt, |