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Too funny. I bet your friend knew what he was doing. It was his way of helping you understand his pain. It’s like when Tyra Banks puts on a fat suit. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a man wearing capris. If I did, I’m not sure I’d assume he was gay, but I would probably think it an odd choice. Hot pants, on the other hand . . . Let’s just say it could have been worse than capris. |
I once had a roommate who had a one-piece outfit he would wear for pajamas. I don’t know what you’d call that thing – maybe a unitard. The first time I saw it I couldn’t refrain from saying “Nice Freddy Mercury outfit.” His response (while laughing): “Shut up!” |
I can honestly say I’ve never seen a man, gay or otherwise, wearing capri pants. Long baggy shots yes, tight capris, no. The capris my wife wear don’t look that comfortable, it seems like it would feel weird having the fabric end right between your knee and foot, do they feel good on? I’d try on my wife’s if she wasn’t so much smaller than my fat butt. |
Tagore, I wept as I read of your Capri pants experience. First, the minivan post; then capri pants? I hope my wife doesn’t read this- When I went to Iraq, I asked her to send me some polo shirts to wear around, and she sent me some lovely pastel-colored shirts, appropriate for the guns-and-dirt atmosphere of Baghdad. I’m pretty sure there are two of them I have never worn. I’m going to run and hide now. |
“a light breeze cooling my half-exposed calves” LOL |
Uma Thurma wore capri pants in Pulp Fiction. Yummy!! Although I’ve never seen you in capri pants, I can safely say you are no Uma Thurman. Having said that, I suggest you leave the capris to Uma. |
“Spants”! We call them “manpris”. |
ROTFLMAO. That’s so faggy! |
Thanks for the afternoon laugh – I needed that after the hour and a half drive this morning through the @#@$$# road construction here in Boston… |
I bet you think that’s pretty embarrassing, Tagore. But how do you think I felt when I accidentally had sex with a man? How do you explain that one? |
Say what?! |
Brian G, I think that as long as you did it on accident and totally free of evil intent, then you’re fine. By the way, you wanna’ go camping? |
One day Brian G. was innocently walking along and he just slipped. |
Brian, chalk that one up to another reason we have the law of chastity. |
Weirdly enough, I’ve got my own law school story. A friend was a member of the gay-lesbian law student association (Outlaws), and they were selling t-shirts for their fundraiser. And I ended up buying a T-shirt, to help them out. So what does a nice Mormon boy — married with two kids — do with a somewhat tight ringer T-shirt that reads in bright pink letters across the front, “Columbia Outlaws: Too Pretty to Burn in Hell.” I wore it to school, of course. |
“Brian G, I think that as long as you did it on accident and totally free of evil intent, then you’re fine. By the way, you wanna’ go camping?” i am still laughing… |
Go camping? Okay, DKL, but I only have one sleeping bag. |
Tag, |
I will save this story and later tell it to my children as an example of the dangers of peer pressure. |
Tagore, As your brother in manhood and straightness, I want to exhort you to learn to be comfortable with your straight manhood. I realize that this is a gay, gay world we live in, but trying to accomodate the fashion sensibilities of gay guys, however well-intentioned, is a path to sorrow and humiliation. |
Dan Ellsworth, I commend your fashion suggestions for straight guys. |
Brian G.: Ellsworth: Whaaat?! No more pedicures?! What about manicures and facials? |
Tagore, sounds like you want the whole whole spa treatment. Two words straight men do not want to hear: Exfoliation. Loofah. |
Interesting thread. I’m a gay man, living in the “gay neighborhood” of Seattle. (Yes, I know, someone here objects to me mentioning that.) I don’t know any of my gay friends who wear capris, get manicures or pedicures, wear pink ringer t-shirts, or exfoliate. One or two might own a loofah–I don’t know. For a bunch of people who wet themselves over a silly comment by Al Sharpton, ya’ll seem awfully willing to stereotype and mock OTHER minorities. |
Nick, I don’t think that Mormon’s get upset about Al Sharpton’s comments as comments. It’s more that Al Sharpton puts himself up as the mediator of good feeling for oppressed people everywhere — especially blacks. So it’s great to be able to tag him with the label “bigot” for a day. But aside from that, you’re right. One thing that surprised me about my theme on RLDS scripture is how willing Mormons are to say things about the RLDS scripture that we would never want said about ours. But I do think that Tagore’s story is true. He can correct me if I’m wrong. Even so, you bring up an interesting point that worth discussing seriously. For example, Brian G made a joke about accidentally having sex with another man, and after that he and I exchanged jokes about having sex with each other. These have, to me, a preposterous feel. I’d never say such things to women, for example, for fear that I’d be taken seriously. But I think that they’re quite funny to say to another man. There seems to be a sense in which you might feel yourself closed off to this kind of humor. Because you may not feel comfortable joking that way with another guy and with another girl for fear of being taken seriously. Or maybe you just don’t care and make those jokes with other guys, because locker room humor is like that. Do jokes like that offend you? Do you think that they’re inappropriate or offensive? (I don’t mean to be presumptuous by posing these hypotheticals about what you might think — I really don’t know, that’s why I’m asking.) Also, it’s true that there are stereotypes. But shows like Will & Grace, which are hailed by some as groundbreaking in terms of their humorous portrayal of gays, definitely play to those stereotypes. One of the male protagonists doesn’t look gay at all, and the other is as Paul Lynde-bitchy as any character on television. The impression that this leaves one with is that a substantial fraction (at least) of gay men behave in an effeminate manner. Is this a stereotype or a valid generalization? If it is a stereotype, is it as much a part of the self-identity of gays as it is of the perception of gays by straights? |
True story. And two gay friends took me to get a manicure and pedicure (but that’s a story for another time). In fairness, I have had discussions with other gay friends who despise capris, so I realize that not all gay men endorse them. But none of my other gay friends were offended by this story– most thought it was pretty funny. |
Since in past comments I’ve been very blunt and pointed towards Nick Literski, I thought I’d just tell people that I’ve emailed him and apologized. We’ve exchanged some emails with each other and hopefully in the future we will be friendly to each other. I do not inherently object to him identifying himself as gay on our blog (though I think most regular readers have known that for some time). I respect his right to make personal decisions for himself. Anyway, I don’t know how well this comment rights things – but since I went after him publicly, I thought it might not hurt to bring this up publicly as well. |
DKL, For the record, I found the exchange funny, and I wasn’t offended at all. Do I make similar jokes at times with straight friends? Yes, if we know one another well enough that it’s clear I’m kidding around, and if I know the other guy won’t overreact to it. My point was more about the stereotypes, than anything. Yes, every stereotype has some kernal of reality. I certainly know gay men who are, as we might say, “total nellies.” While I defend their freedom to be what they are, I personally find that an extremely unattractive trait. (Heck, if I was attracted to effeminate qualities, I’d be straight…) On another level, many of the organizations which claim religious “cures” for homosexuality buy into these stereotypes. With little searching, you can find guides intended to help parents “prevent” junior from “becoming” gay. They focus on making sure parents immediately censure any tendencies “junior” might have, that are effeminate. Evergreen (an LDS “cure the gay” group) has at times focused on teaching gay men to play basketball, as if this “butch” activity will “fix” them. Just recently, a news program showed two young twin boys, one of whom had a bedroom full of military-oriented toys and decor. The other had (I kid you not) unicorns and pink frills all over. Their mother claimed she noticed their differences at about 18 months. The show was highlighting these differences as if they were proof that some men are born gay. In other words, the boy who was being emasculated by his freaky mother was assumed to be gay, because of his effeminate behavior. Things like this are why I find the “gay men are effeminate” stereotype irritating. They make it easy for straight persons to demonize gays as “freaks” and “damaged.” |
So, Nick, have you ever worn capris? Nick, your objections seem uncharacteristically mild. I bet you could see the humor. Although accidental sex seems like a good topic for discussion. Tagore, you are really easy to manipulate. I like friends like that because I can get them to do stuff I don’t want to. I’ll be in touch. |
I don’t know what to say, Nick. Nearly all the gay men I know all seem to share a wicked sense of humor, and an enviable gift of being able to laugh at themselves. If that in itself is a stereotype you’ve done a good job of breaking it down. I’ll plead guilty to not being funny before I plead guilty to being insensitive. When the situation is reversed, which it was in Tagore’s thread about driving and owning mini-vans, which is a Mormon stereotype, I think we all managed to laugh at ourselves a little bit. Granted, when your people are the object of teasing, even gentle teasing, it’s easy and natural to be more sensitive, and often teasing goes too far. If I went too far I apologize. I’m actually thankful to you for voicing your opinion, because I don’t want to be misunderstood, and it gives me a chance to clarify, in case there’s any doubt. It was a joke, everyonee: I did not in any way shape or form accidentally have sex with a man! It was on purpose. |
annegb, Brian G, Being able to laugh at oneself in the company of others has much to do with feeling comfortable and accepted, Brian. If you knew me in person, I think you’d find that my sense of humor (including about myself, and about being gay) is at least as twisted and wicked as any of your friends. It’s a matter of feeling like I can let my nearly buzz-cut hair down. I’ll admit, my original comment was a bit on edge due to an earlier comment in another thread (one which has been fully resolved in a friendly way, btw). I apologize for throwing a wet blanket on what should have been a good-natured exchange. |
Nick, No apologies necessary. I’m glad we’re cool, and I’m even more glad you think I was funny. (That’s what I was really worried about). As far as I’m concerned you can say whatever you want on this blog. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I, uh, have to return a pup tent to Costco. |
Nick Litursky: if I’d been the one to [make the camping joke], some people here would have gotten all bent out of shape. Personally, I would have thought it was very funny. Nick Litursky: Things like [efforts to "cure" gay men by teaching them to act masculine] are why I find the “gay men are effeminate†stereotype irritating. They make it easy for straight persons to demonize gays as “freaks†and “damaged.†Fair enough. Your discussion of Christian groups that try to cure gays reminds me of a recurring character from Mr. Show (played by David Cross) who would appear on some fictitious Christian show to talk about how glad he was that he was cured of being gay, and how happy he is to be back in the fold after his umpteenth “relapse.” I’m sure that there is a kernel of truth in that stereotype, too. annegb: Although accidental sex seems like a good topic for discussion. I anxiously await your forthcoming definitive post on accidental sex, annegb. |
DKL, |
Nick, That’s just my opinion. annegb, you seem to be the expert here, so I’ll defer to you. |
A pup tent, Brian? |
Just don’t anyone say anything about pitching a tent. |
Nick, Well, it wasn’t exactly a pink ringer shirt — it was a white ringer shirt with pink letters. And I actually bought it from a lesbian classmate. (As far as I know, she was the shirt’s designer.) It was sold for the fundraiser, and I saw many of my gay and lesbian classmates wearing their own shirts to school sometimes. I don’t know how many of them wore it as a statement of support for gay law students, and how many wore it because they liked the style. Probably a little of both, I suspect. |
Kaimi, |
Oh good! I’m doing dinner with a gay friend (male) and I was really concerned about what we’d talk about–besides our mutual interest in Denzel Washington. I’m set now. |
Margaret, |
Did you attend BYU law school too? |
No, I attended Northern Illinois University College of Law, one of those “less than top tier” institutions. ;-) |
I don’t know if I qualify, really, to submit a comment here since my mentality’s not Mormon but former Mormon, but here goes: A female friend the other day rented Wild Orchid– And, although I’m entirely straight (Seriously!), I did glance, but momentarily, of course, at the white butt and tan lines of that hunky Brazilian guy that the American business tycoon woman (Jacqueline Bisset) invites up to her room – with the thought that maybe it would be good looking to a woman, in a sort of a theoretical or purely aesthetic mode of thought, I think. (OK, the movie has the business tycoon woman have the the hottie lead female character (Carre Otis/*/), this ingenue who knows five languages, translate into Portuguese her proposition of the guy.) Anyway, my point is – and I do have one, as Ellen DeGeneres would say – or question, rather: Do you think this straight Brazilian guy character in Rio could have pulled off the capris ensemble? Have a nice day. :^) |
[...] was once the norm among men, and is now producing hit TV shows watched by contemporary pedicured, capri-wearing men who probably yearn for more of the simple, rugged retrosexual approach to [...] |
Holy cow — thanks for the link to this post. I missed it the first time around. Awesome. I laughed hard. |
I missed it too. This is a classic!!! Thanks Tagore I needed the laughs. |
Thanks, guys. It was a painful chapter. I’m glad society has moved on– I might have next been persuaded to buy a man purse. |
I am sorry for your pain. You are a real man to tell such a funny tale. Thanks again. |