Of course you should feel guilty! Blogging is unnecessary! All your needs can be met by the church. Quit blogging, and spend all that time home teaching! (Ouch! Quit hitting me! I was only joking!)

I have generally felt that Church meetings serve a positive purpose. It’s not unusual that I got into church feeling a bit ‘griped’ or weary and usually by the time I leave, I’m feeling uplifted and happy.

Also, I find that classes in church stimulate some kind of thought on doctrine or gospel topics that I find useful. I don’t know if that has as much to do with the classes as much as the fact that I usually think of questions or ideas that interest me (as the lesson is being taught) and bring them up in the class – and that gets my mental processes involved. For me personally, participating in the process a little bit makes a positive difference. It’s not something I consciously try to do – it’s just the way my personality works.

I think some classes suffer because a lot of people sitting in the chairs refuse to take part (although admittedly, some teaching styles don’t allow for much participation). It’s not uncommon for a teacher to ask a rather superficial question and for the class to sit mute in their seats. But there is no reason people sitting in a class have to submit to that problem if they have useful thoughts/insights to offer on the subject.

Having said all that, I have heard from many LDS bloggers/commenters the same idea expressed in the post – that they found church meetings boring or insubstantive and that the LDS blogs serve a need for them. I’m not necessarily going to discount their feelings – because many have said that sort of thing. It can’t be completely incorrect – even if my overall experience has been different.

danithew,

I am glad that you are satisfied with your experience. I suspect that most active Mormons are. I am probably in a very small minority.

arj,

I should add that I don’t get too many chances of those kinds of experiences, because, like you say, church meetings are generally amateurish in nature, and also because I have a one year old girl to take care of. That’s today, however, as a father, and living in the boondocks of Pennsylvania. I had a much different experience while going to the Longfellow Park single ward in Boston. Church is a much different experience with college students (especially ones as intelligent and reasoned as those up in Boston) than with country farm boys not as studied on the more esoteric aspects of the gospel.

Still in all my experiences at church since I was baptized twenty years ago this upcoming September, I have found that I’ve felt the Spirit more in the simpler testimonies about the Savior and the gospel itself.

Our current Gospel Doctrine teacher does a great job at just this, bringing in the spirit in his class. It’s been wonderful to see everyone who goes to that class feel like they are learning spiritually about the Savior as we study the New Testament.

danithew is right. Having a spiritual experience in church meetings is not entirely the responsibility of the teacher or speaker. On the other hand, LDS culture has developed somewhat of a “blame the victim” mentality on this point. Stories are told, and lessons are taught, to illustrate how if you don’t feel spiritually uplifted in a church setting, it’s your own fault, and you didn’t have the spirit with you.

Realistically, sometimes it’s the family behind you with eleven kids, none of whom have been taught to behave like civilized humans. Sometimes it’s the speaker or teacher who is spouting leftovers from their earlier Protestant life, which directly contradict Mormon revelations. Sometimes it’s the woman who gets up to testify that George W. Bush is a man of God, or the man who gets up to testify that the Iraq invasion is God’s work, and if he wasn’t too old, he’d be sure to enlist, so that he could go over and “kill Sadaam Hussein–kill him in the name of Jesus Christ” (I kid you not–we had that happen). Sometimes it’s the bishop of a married student ward, who gets up and tells the entire ward that they’re too young (some were in their 30s) to be trusted to handle their callings (another one I sat through). Sometimes it’s the class instructor who knows God wants him to “follow the manual,” so he doesn’t allow comments, but stands in front of you and reads said manual to the class.

Yes, we should all be compassionate and forgiving, not letting these things disturb us. Just maybe though, we ought to be disturbed by some of these things. Maybe it’s okay to recognize a really bad class or meeting for what it was, without having to conclude that it’s all our own fault.

Nick, I think all the things you mentioned are the kind of problems that can arise in church. I’ve seen similar things happen. Probably all of us have.

I don’t mean to blame the victim in my comments. There are times that there is little a person can do to elevate a lesson that is stagnant. Neither do I buy the idea that a person “with the right spirit” will be able to enjoy every single minute of every single meeting that he/she attends.

I also agree with the basic premise of what ARJ is saying in his post – that is, that the Bloggernacle provides another outlet for people to discuss topics and things that often cannot be discussed in church – and also that the LDS blogging community provides a place for us to discuss them in a manner that could never happen in church. We can actually argue and debate without the typical restraints or formality that the church meeting context imposes.

Finally, and maybe this point needs to be discussed more – but there really aren’t children participating in the Bloggernacle. Someone mentioned that small children detract from the church meeting experience – the Bloggernacle naturally shunts that problem aside.

I don’t know…it seems to me that “children” write posts to LDS blogs all the time. Sometimes I’m one of those “children.”

Nick, I can see what you are saying.

But in that case the preferable word to use is “spawn” – not “children”.

Todd,

I’d love to be in an environment like that, but I don’t see it in my ward.

Several commenters seem to be implying that I’m part of the problem. I like to think that I am not. I offer comments when appropriate. I teach pretty frequently and strive to have discussions that provide fertile ground for both spiritual and intellectual growth. But in my ward I often feel a bit alone in my endeavors.

My point isn’t that I’m giving up, but that I don’t worry about it like I used to. My needs are being filled. I assume others have different needs or they keep quiet about it.

I should add that I don’t think that I’m much more filtered in real life than I am on the internet.

ARJ – I feel similar to you. Most of the time Church is more painful than anything for me. I am usually chasing our son around and listing to some very boring talks. Occassionally I am uplifted. My best experiences are in Primary – I love that….

Kristine,

I’m sure I don’t have to tell you how blessed you are to have been able to experience non-painful high-council talks.

I envy friends from my former Protestant life who go to church and their children are treated to an entire program that is relevant to them, allowing the adults to actually get something out of the main worship service. What about if, right after the passing of the sacrament itself, our children were allowed to leave the chapel and trot down to a children’s class that would actually engage them, and offer them something, aside from the angry stares and exasperated grasps of their parents as they squirm and make noise the remaining 55 minutes of sacrament meeting. I think it’d be the biggest revolution in a long time, and might actually make church less painful and more useful for many. I know I’d sure put a lot more work into my talks if I knew that more than the half a dozen child-less adults in the congregation could actually hear me when I talk.

I was for more than a couple of years just occupying a spot in church. What I wanted more than anything was for it to be over.

Even then, though, every once in a while I would connect with Whatever Is Out There. It wasn’t brought about necessarily by anything that happened in the meeting. I never expected it. It would just happen. The only requirement seemed to be that I was physically present.

So I go to church never expecting anything. I don’t expect bad things and I don’t expect good things. Sometimes things will go well and sometimes they won’t. I think this helps me to be appreciate of the connection when it comes. It feels like a gift.

Great idea about having kids go to a child-related class after the Sacrament is done. I’ve been throwing that idea out for some time now. When my first child was younger, Sacrament meeting was painful and I would count the endless minutes until it was all over. I finally gave up going to Sacrament meeting for nearly four years because I just couldn’t take it anymore. It’s much better now that my youngest is seven years old. Still, it’s tough listening to a lot of loud kids and I can’t tell you the last time I’ve felt the spirit in a Sacrament meeting. It’s not as bad as my home ward since there are fewer kids. My parents live in Utah and after one Sacrament meeting that was noisier than a college football game I refused to go back. It was pure pandemonium (sp?) and by the time it was over, I was just done with it.

28 Jane:

I know what you mean. Your post could have been written by my wife with a few minor changes in details. Not only can I not remember the last time I felt the spirit in Sacrament meeting, I would be hard pressed to tell you the last time I actually heard anything any of the speakers said. And whether or not our own children behave, there’s always the family in the row ahead of or behind us, who have children that lean over the benches and conspire to bring our children into their mayhem.

The bloggernacle has actually emboldened me to bring up issues during regular church meetings. Before I discovered the bloggernacle I would just sit and stew and think to myself, “Doesn’t [pick your topic] trouble anyone else here,” or, “What that instructor said is waaay off the mark.” Upon discovering that there was a community of Mormons out there that actually discussed some of the more difficult points of Mormonism I came to the conclusion that there had to be others sitting in the congregation with me that felt the same way and that all that was required to get the conversation going was a first mover. So I became a more vocal participant in classes making a point to raise issues regardless of what I thought the general reaction might be. To my surprise that approach was well received by most of my fellow congregationists. During one GD class we actually discussed prophetic infallibility and the pristhood ban. During another we discussed the historicity and symbolism of the creation accounts. My bishop at the time I adopted my new approach hailed me a wonderful teacher and asset to the ward. My current bishop though holds an entirely different opinion of me (as far as he’s concerned I am literally a heretic and a danger to the rest of the fold) which means I do not hold any kind of calling (including HT). We are in the process of moving again and last week was my last in the ward. As I was preparing to leave I had two dozen members come and express thanks to me for my willingness to discuss the gospel in a frank and honest manner. Perhaps I was merely being patronized but my feeling was that their expressed sentiments were heart-felt. Now, I’m off to Florida where I intend to soldier on in the crudade to make church meaningful for everyone.

33 arJ:

True, but at least we could then HEAR the lousy speakers. Okay, maybe I’ll just keep the kids with me after all….

Oh, yes, John, answering your last question first, I compare. Because I mostly have to keep my mouth shut in church.

(going backwards) The bloggernacle has made me feel less alone, less different.

I think I expect much less of meetings than I did before, so if anything good happens, I’m pleasantly surprised. But I’m more bored than I ever was and I have a hard time making myself go to Sacrament. I concentrate on the sacrament itself mostly.

Or I will go into the cry room and nap or (just lately) play Tetris. I think God understands. Not condone, but I think He understands.

LOL … playing videogames in church. Annegb, I _know_ you’re not the only one.

Back when people first started carrying around their little Palm computers, I succumbed to playing chess a few times during priesthood meeting. Then one day a traditional chess opponent actually taught the lesson. I was sitting there messing around with the keypad or whatever – and he gave me this “I know you’re not going to do that during my lesson” grin. At that point I felt compelled to put it away.

KLC,

Wow. That is amazing. Not amazing as in good, but amazing as in sad. Xbox and hang-out time, eh? FWIW, I have been in a couple wards where the primary program was barely much elevated above that, though, due to non-motivated primary teachers and no one else to call to the positions. I suppose a church’s youth program is only as good as the people running it.

When I was a wee lad, our youth program in church consisted of sitting, having a prayer, having a lesson, singing songs, and pretty much exactly what primary consists of in the LDS church. It was just shorter, since my protestant church had only two hours of meetings, not three: the primary worship service, and Sunday school.

But KLC, I fear you may be right…maybe my memories are just that….sad to think that so much has changed so quickly!

Travis,

I humbly submit to your superior geographic knowledge.

If only there were more people like you asking hard questions here in Sandy… Move home.

I agree that the service aspect of Church is important. In fact it is probably more important than the quality of lessons or how spiritual a talk is. That said, if the three hour block (should be 90 minutes) can accomplish all three at various times that would be great.

[...] EQ instructors everywhere: I know that I proclaimed that I was OK with the mediocre level of discussion in Church.  However I have to draw the line somewhere.  I want to draw it very far from watching crappy [...]