John does great. He’s articulate and clear. Nice work, John!

John,

Great job. I do think there are two sides to the “I can’t imagine anything more awful” issue. A lot of mainstream LDS are right there with him on that and wish it wasn’t part of our history. Do you expect him to defend it? I can assure you that more LDS would be annoyed if he did that than are annoyed by the fact that he said it was “awful”.

I think the way they edited the section at the end on the Second Coming was pretty cowardly on their part. George didn’t ask him if Zion, the new Jeresalem, would be built on the American continent. They imply that he did. They asked if Jesus would come to America, with the implication that he would come first and only to America.

They are trying to manufacture and issue where there isn’t one. Romney’s answer was right. We believe that Jesus will return and manifest himself to the world at the Mount of Olives.

I find it hilarious that Stephanopolous claims that Americans want a leader who will not impose his beliefs on them; considering the sitting president.

ECS,

So if your living polygamy would assure a democrat wins would you do it? Should we tell T to start looking for a sister wife for you? I can’t imagine that there would be room at your place. :)

I’m actually one of those people who get irritated at the “ew gross” crowd of Mormons on the polygamy question.

Can’t think of anything worse than polygamy eh?

How about monogamy?

Spend a bit of volunteer time counseling at a local women’s shelter and you’ll quickly see what I mean.

“Can’t think of anything worse….” what a dumb response.

Danithew, thankfully, Mormons never practiced genocide, caused mass starvation, or made movies starring Jennifer Garner. If we had, then Romney wouldn’t stand a chance.

But seriously, anyone who says that they can’t think of anything more awful than polygamy has never had to spend an evening with an insurance agent.

I am pretty sure most Church members are relieved that polygamy is no longer a demand the Church makes of its members.

That use of the word “most” in that context had me tripping for some reason. I was thinking about that small minority of Mormons who might not be relieved about this and it occurred to me they could start a blog called “Polygamous Mormon Stories.”

Okay – stupid joke. My bad.

Well done John, hopefully, this is the first of many for you…

. . . or how about, as most Mormons I know have said, “I believe Polygamy is something I hope never to have to live. If it was ever returned, I don’t know what I would do.” Frankly, what he said is closer to the feelings expressed (if not the words) by many in the Church than anything else.

John Dehlin,

I think all of those say too much. What he said is better than any of your suggestions.

[...] my good buddy Danithew is hosting a discussion about the show over on Mormon Mentality.  Check it out, and thanks for all of your kind emails of [...]

Hey John, you did a great job. I agree with your ideas in #18. His actual response is bad in two ways in that it denigrates all those folks who made the sacrifice and lived polygamy (many of my ancestors), and that it ignores the many really awful things in the world that he’d have to deal with as president.

The southern Baptist convention exists only because they separated from the northern Baptists over slavery. Why doesn’t every southern Baptist politician have to account for why they belong to a church that formed solely to support that awful institution (way more awful than polygamy, I would suppose).

I enjoyed seeing John on that ABC segment. Nice that ABC sought him out for this. Some will probably look at John’s website and conclude he’s not a real LDS though. I for one enjoy Mormon Stories podcast.

99% of Americans will have no clue that the statement is the same as what the Church says.

My main problem with the statement is that it is hyperbole: it is intentionally emotional and reactionary in nature. I would not be comfortable with a president who addresses tough problems and questions in such a way. If this guy is as thoughtful and articulate as some would like him to be, surely he could have devised a better answer. This is a man who measures and considers every word he publicly speaks. He is not dumb. He crafted that response for a particular reason, and many LDS find it offensive. I hadn’t planned on voting for him, and I still don’t, but now I plan even LESS on voting for him.

As mentioned, I understand this is a touchy subject for Mitt, given his family’s circumstances (favored by church leadership and sent to Mexico to live polygamy after the Manifesto).

Even if repeating the GBH party line wouldn’t have been better, surely SOMETHING would have been better than not being able to “imagine anything more awful” than polygamy.

Way more awful in my mind would be electing this guy to any public office. Gee, and I didn’t even have to think hard!

Didn’t Brigham Young pretty much share Mitt Romney’s feelings about polygamy when he was first aproached with it?

The structure of marriage is what Mitt was asked about. There’s plenty of anecdotal evidence that some who lived in polygamous marriages couldn’t think of any worse marital structure either.

The only people who are upset with Mitt about that statement are liberal Mormons. No one else gives a rip.

I agree that polygamy is not literally the most “awful thing one could imagine.” But, if he honestly finds polygamy to be disgusting (I don’t know if he does), why aren’t we praising him for trying to answer as honestly as he can? Perhaps his word ordering and choice wasn’t quite right, but what if he had said “I see polygamy as a disgusting, misguided practice?” Then he’d be called onto the carpet by questioning the Joseph’s revelations even though he wouldn’t be using hyperbole.

I still think that his approach was more effective than saying “I don’t understand it” or “we don’t do that anymore” in that it would make him seem more independent from his church in that he actually states an opinion on its practice. And, I think that’s important for him to establish if he is to have any chance. Mind you, I’m not voting for him, but I think he responded wisely from this standpoint.

And, though we can never no for sure if he intentionally used hyperbole, even if he did, are there really any other politicians running in ’08 that haven’t resorted to some form of exaggeration or hyperbole? Tell me one from either political persuasion, and I’ll seriously consider switching allegiances. The lying or deliberate misinformation by candidates when it comes to sensitive issues such as: Iran, Iraq, Middle East, immigration, healthcare, etc is really astounding. I don’t think Mitt is any worse than the rest of them in using hyperbole.

I have more of an issue with his changing views on major issues such as abortion and gun rights so late in the game. I lived in Boston when he ran against Kennedy, and I found his views much more to my liking. Given that he is an intelligent man who has presumably thought about these issues for years, I have a hard time believing that he saw the light just recently. Rather, the cynic in me tells me he’s simply pandering to the far right Rebulicans…which leads me to a concern of not knowing how strongly he stands for his positions…

Ben-

I think almost any way he phrased the answer would have offended some portion of LDS members. Ducking the question is offensive to some, answering honestly offends others, using hyperbole for political ends offends others.

We’re not all going to agree on whether or not his comments were calculated, intentionally incendiary, or candid (but with slightly different word usage). I do think, when it comes to Polygamy, that there’s not one way to answer the question that doesn’t leave some LDS members offended or frustrated.

34.
Ben,

And plenty of abused women today feel there’s nothing worse than monogamous marriage.

Duh. If you notice, I didn’t make any judgements personally about polygamy. I merely stated that I believe that Mitt Romney isn’t alone if he actually feels what he said.

it’s Mormons who value their heritage. Mormons who believe in divine guidance of the Church throughout its history. Mormons who don’t feel like they have to explain away church teachings and history to the world in a vain grab for praise and worldly acceptance. Mormons who have reconciled that sometimes matters of faith cannot be explained in rational terms to persons who are not of faith.

Are you implying that those of us who aren’t offended by Mitt’s comments don’t give a rip about those things? Some of us just aren’t offended easily. Would you hold the same contempt for a person who can’t think of anything worse than withholding priesthood blessings from a person strictly because of the color of their skin? The priesthood ban was practiced longer than polygamy was.

Ben There,

Now you sound like Mitt, calling the statement “outrageous” for effect. Can you imagine anything more awful than a presidential candidate that makes outrageous statements?

Well. I am on steroids and I cannot sleep. I look like Bill beat me up and the swelling in my face won’t go down and I am in that 1% of dental implant patients who ARE SCREWED UP! Not my implant, my nature. So I have been sick as a dog, but not to worry in six months and $6000 I will have a full smile again. Which is where I have been. Laying on the couch with bags of frozen peas on my face and telling people (including the SP’s brother in law, who believed me for a priceless few seconds that Bill was in jail for beating me up)

John, I so want to meet you, now! It was great to see your face. You are mature and articulate. There is a place outside of Brigham City that serves really good food, my Al-Anon sponser and I (also an active Mormon) are going to meet there sometime. It’s a ranch or something.

Although I think polygamy sucked too. Mixed emotions, but I’m with Mitt on this. He’s running for president, not prophet and he has the right to express an opinion. I do, why doesn’t he?

ECS, wake up, hon, didn’t mean to shock you by defending Mitt, but there you have it. I’m warming to him. If only he weren’t so handsome. If only he looked like Ed Harris.

John, I agreed with you re the temple thing, until I watched the show. Okay, I’m stupid. Is it official doctrine that Jesus will first come to Missouri? I might have answered that question with “I don’t know, is that right? where did you read that? We believe He will come to Missouri, we believe that article of faith, but I’m thinking He will come to Jerusalem first when the two prophets get killed and then He will visit around.”

“But, hey, you know, we could discuss this all day. George, if you would like to know more about the Mormon Church, I’d like to give your name to the missionaries. You seem really golden and alive with curiousity. And let’s get back to IMMIGRATION, HELLO!”

#3 ARJ, I agree completely.
Oh! Also #8 Daniel.

#6 ECS, I think he was speaking rhetorically in answer to a specific issue. We all say “I can’t think of anything more awful than . . .having bleeding hemorroids, or ..well, awful stuff.” It’s conversation. Of course there are more awful things. Maybe he can think of things AS awful, but it’s down there for him.

I might say “I can’t think of anything more awful than having your child abducted.” But I can think of things AS awful.

They’re all crazy. We’re all crazy. I cannot remember where I read this, but if I come across it and still remember it, I’ll post it, this really famous guy philosopher or something said, “If people knew what I thought about, they’d have me shot. Or not be my friend, something like that.” The only difference between me and George Bush and Bill Clinton is I KNOW I’m crazy.

#7 John Scherer, give me a break. Presidents always impose their beliefs on the masses. Look at what Jimmy Carter did.

Where’s insult in being called a liberal Mormon? It’s sort of how I describe myself. Actually, I get slightly annoyed if somebody calls me a conservative Mormon. Although that’s redundant. Actually, nobody has ever called me conservative. But if they did, I’d probably say “are you implying that I’m a conservative Mormon? you said as much, but you’re wrong.” And call them a bad word or something.

And point out that the phrase is redundant and they are morons.

#3 & #8 Daniel, I agree completely.

#11, Seth, see above. Did you guys expect him to elaborate at length on the meaning of the phrase “more awful than” and qualify? It was just a figure of speech. (As an aside, they won’t take me at the women’s shelter. They will take stuff and money, but they see that I have anger issues and peoples’ husbands would be being shot all over the place..no lie, true story)

DKL, this is what I’m saying. If I had to choose between having a sister wife, and listening to my husband’s wonderful but boring best friend speak in sacrament for the SIXTH time this year, I’d say, “honey, go for Pamela Anderson. And park her trailer in the back.”

I’m feeling sleepy, perhaps I can get a few minutes in. If I don’t lay down and have my eyes pop open like in Russian sleep torture.

And I have to take more tomorrow. The dumb doctor in the ER gave me really dangerous antibiotics but I’m not taking them. My next post, no the one after will be “doctors are human beings who can be very stupid, use your head.” I could be dying as we speak.

So if I said a bunch of stuff you already said, in #13-40, disregard.

Oh, I would just like to say (John this is why nobody e-mails me LOL) that I spent a pleasant hour interviewing John and if he is still speaking to me after I asked his brother for a quote on how he beat John up and made him poop in his hand as a child, I have a lot to tell y’all about John. And it ain’t all about mormons, either. But names will be dropped. Not Mormon ones, either….

Agreed. It is a very tough subject to deal with in today’s world. I have to admit, though, that public attitudes are changing to some extent. Some people in our increasingly liberal society are deciding that polygamy is no more a big deal than gay marriage, single parenthood, or other so-called “untraditional” arrangements. To the extent that there are more “non-fundamentalist Christians” than there are fundamentalist Christians (those most likely to oppose “untraditional” familial arrangements), polygamy may become less of a stumbling block in the future than it has been in the recent past.

His morning TV show will really get the interest of the people who are watching television in the morning and sitting while drinking a hot cup of tea.