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DKL, what kind of business had you been running for two years at the age of twenty? Just curious. Interesting that you had to deal with the question of masturbation and honesty … that’s a pretty gnarly question for a girl to ask a guy on a ‘first date’ – although it sounds like this relationship didn’t continue past the first great and in-depth restaurant conversation. Clearly, women can end up having some interesting and candid conversations (with each other) about sex. |
Why in the world were you thrown out of school? What did you do? |
I agree- that’s an amazingly candid conversation to have on a date. Did she actually use that unpleasant-sounding m-word, or did she use one of the many, many euphemisms out there? |
Hey Miranda…er, I mean DKL, are you sure this isn’t a post for a future BoH project? |
2) I bet he forgot to shave. |
We could make DKL blush! |
cripes!!!I alwasys do that. |
Annegb, For some reason I have a feeling his “being thrown out of school” had something to do with a royally pissed-off authority figure. From what I gather, DKL just doesn’t seem to be willing to give ecclesiastical or academic honchos the wet kisses they crave so badly. |
Interesting in my limited life experiences, I have never had that type of conversation with guys, let alone females. I think it is always amazing to look back on our lives when we are young and realize how very little rational thought goes into some of our decisions… |
mfranti, I fixed your comment. Is it even possible to make DKL blush? |
thanks ellsworth. I’m recalling several late night conversations with my girlfriends and ummm, I am pretty sure we could make him blush. not that we are vulgar, we are just honest and practical about it. |
[I]t used to be a Mexican Restaurant until a bunch of people who ate there got botulism or some other kind of food poisoning. I can’t remember exactly what kind. Anyway, that’s where we ate dinner — that Mexican place where they got botulism. It was the shigellosis contamination, Labor Day weekend in 1990. Good times. |
My dad, then a native South Dakotan and non-Mormon, decided to attend BYU for some odd reason. He always says it was because he heard that the guys there all take off for two years and leave their women behind. Not sure if that’s the real reason, but he ain’t sayin. |
I remember at BYU, church leaders were always wringing their hands over the numbers of people graduating single. I did so, and met my wife in DC. |
Devyn,
I think it’s time to have the conversation then. And why not this forum? So, Devyn, how often? |
Dan E.
I graduated single, moved to Massachusetts and met my wife on the Internet, only to discover that she was at BYU at the same time I was. We overlapped by like two semesters, and we were in the same International Politics/Relations program! Heh. |
I have a hard time imagining church leaders wringing their hands over this sort of thing. Is it really their responsibility to make marriages happen for undergraduate students? I remember seeing one roommate packing up his stuff (after graduating from BYU). He was leaving Utah for graduate work in CA and he was visibly angry – in fact he’d been dissatisfied and angry for awhile – the reason being that he was not finding a wife and then he was leaving BYU single. In the back of my mind I had rather sarcastic images running of what he must have been expecting – school officials handing out wives with diplomas. “Here you are son – congratulations.” Of course this was the same roommate who had wondered aloud whether running into the same girl more than once in a day (on campus) might be some kind of spiritual sign. |
Danithew: what kind of business had you been running for two years at the age of twenty? We sold computers to the government. The good news is that there are small-business set-asides and plenty of government agencies buying computers. The bad news is that we had to pay cash to buy the equipment that we sold and then wait 45 to 60 days for payment. This was where I learned the difference between profit and cash flow. If we won a bid that was much larger than average, our cash flow would go through a dry spell. “Dry spell” isn’t quite the right term for it. They were more like crazy spells. In addition to recharging toner cartridges for cash, selling used computers, and servicing copiers and printers, my partner and I sometimes sold personal possessions — a pool table, a car, furniture. One day, a truck pulled up down the block and they had a sheriff’s auction right there. We bought a bunch of stuff for next to nothing and sold it over the next week in the paper. Running a business has all the short-term advantages of indentured servitude. Typical day: in by 10:30am, out by 4:00am; aside from the occasional night out with friends or date, I mostly just worked. I suppose that if one spends that much time doing anything, she’ll end up with something to show for it. So after two years, we had a several dozen employees, an actual warehouse, real offices, and a computer on my desk that we didn’t have to sell every month. |
annegb: Why in the world were you thrown out of school? What did you do? Here’s the tally as it was up until 1989, which was when this story took place.
Then failed out of high school, and I never received my high school diploma. Ever. After this, I added to this record:
Wabash College is the only school that I ever graduated from. I’ve already written about getting thrown out of the MTC in a post entitled, “Authority and Stigma in the Church.” Maybe someday I’ll write about one of my sojourns through a school. |
Dan Ellsworth: Did she actually use that unpleasant-sounding m-word, or did she use one of the many, many euphemisms out there? She asked exactly how I describe it, with the M-word in full glory. Rusty: Hey Miranda… er, I mean DKL, are you sure this isn’t a post for a future BoH project? Nope. This is authentic history. It really happened. mfranti: We could make DKL blush! Not a chance! Justin: It was the shigellosis contamination [at the Mexican Restaurant], Labor Day weekend in 1990. Good times. Yes, that’s it. Thanks for the clarification! Devyn S: I think it is always amazing to look back on our lives when we are young and realize how very little rational thought goes into some of our decisions… Yes and no. The rationality of the decision must match its import. For me, going to college wasn’t that big of a deal. My parents wanted me to go — my dad had 3 masters degrees and my brother graduated from UVA law school. I didn’t much care. I wasn’t really burned out. I was ready to keep plugging away day and night to continue to build the business, and the business was booming. I certainly don’t earn more now because I went to college. I am, nevertheless, immenensely glad I went. It was like a multi-year vacation. |
dkl. sounds like eric cartman’s resume. good times. |
It seems to me this young woman was just smart enough to know there are exactly two kinds of men: (1) Men who masturbate. |
Nick, you stole the words right out of my wireless bluetooth keyboard. :) DKL: what was your answer, and what was hers? You know we’re dying to know. We’d like to see how we all measure up, ya know! |
Tagore – sure sounds like a wonderful idea – you first. :) |
If this weren’t a family site… |
Nick, I’ve heard that maxim about two kinds of men before. I think that it is an unfotunate thing to believe, because it is hurtful to the third class of man who actually does not masturbate due to some physical handicap or malady. For example, it’s bad enough for a man to have no hands, but it adds insult to injury to classify him among the liars because he doesn’t claim to masturbate. BenThere, I believe that a caeful reading of my post leaves the answers to those questions (and a few others) beyond doubt. Danithew, your first comment remarks about the length of the relationship. We actually went on another date while I was out there, and for the remainder of my Provo vacation, she frequntly joined my friend and I when we went out to do things. We continued to talk by phone for a while after I returned and she moved to Florida, but things gradually died down. |
DKL, (1) You don’t need hands to masturbate. That’s very hands-centric of you. (2) I seem to remember that you were sort of “Al-Capone’d” out of BYU. The Bishop gave your lack of church attendance as the reason, but it was a little like getting the mob boss for tax evasion. Is that wrong? (Also, you didn’t do a good job of charming your Bishop. I never went to church, but every year, during my interview for the ecclesiastic endorsement, I seemed to be able to convince him that I was *just* at the cusp of reactivity. Maybe he was just being nice.) |
LOL, Scott. I don’t really know how to respond to that. Regarding my hands-centric nature, I appreciate your deconstruction of my approach to masturbation. Regarding the reason for my expulsion, I don’t pretend that I never violated any standards besides church attendance. But honestly, I’d really taken the administration’s professed reasoning for expulsion at face value. After all, I do know students who were disciplined by the standards Nazi’s based on hearsay. So if the school has that mode of discipline available to them, and they had any good dirt on me, why bother with the ecclesiastical endorsement excuse? I always was a bit flippant with my bishop. Each year, in the ecclesiastical endorsement interview, my bishop would warn me that if I didn’t start attending church again, he’d refuse to sign the endorsement. I usually said something to the effect of, “Whatever, dude. I’ve got classes to attend. Can you sign the endorsement already?” I practically dared the poor guy to yank the thing. If I’d have chosen an approach that was less off-putting, I may have ended up graduating from BYU. For my part, I’m glad I didn’t. Having a degree from BYU on one’s resume is like having a bad tattoo in a very visible place. |
>Having a degree from BYU on one’s resume is like If somebody will cross stitch that on a pillow and sell it at Mormon Handicraft, I’ll buy it. |
Having a degree from BYU on one’s resume is like having a bad tattoo in a very visible place. Depends on the major, I guess. |