Comments on: You can please some of the people some of the time… http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:49:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65845 annegb Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:56:34 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65845 Oh, Austin, I was a fool at the time. I actually loved it at the time, but I thought there are people who are truly enduring tragedies who might have been offended. It was my bad, a power play, or something stupid like that. We're friends now. Now, being a lot older and living in a ward with a bunch of whiners, I think it's one of the best talks I've ever heard. I listened to Sister Beck's talk again (I recorded conference) and you know, I must say again that I think young wives need to hear this. I'm a little troubled at the lack of homemaking skills in the younger generation. Besides that, there is a wealth of wisdom in the talk. Maybe if we just abandon the adversary relationship and take it at face value without looking for a way to feel slighted, we could all learn something. Oh, Austin, I was a fool at the time. I actually loved it at the time, but I thought there are people who are truly enduring tragedies who might have been offended. It was my bad, a power play, or something stupid like that. We’re friends now.

Now, being a lot older and living in a ward with a bunch of whiners, I think it’s one of the best talks I’ve ever heard.

I listened to Sister Beck’s talk again (I recorded conference) and you know, I must say again that I think young wives need to hear this. I’m a little troubled at the lack of homemaking skills in the younger generation. Besides that, there is a wealth of wisdom in the talk. Maybe if we just abandon the adversary relationship and take it at face value without looking for a way to feel slighted, we could all learn something.

]]> By: CS Eric http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65773 CS Eric Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:54:10 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65773 I know I am late to this, but it occurs to me that Pres Kimball's talk years ago against hunting may have been an equivalent. If you want to see a "real" man get defensive, remind him of Pres Kimball's "Don't Shoot the Little Birds" talk. I nearly got thrown out of a stake president's office once, and I was only joking. I know I am late to this, but it occurs to me that Pres Kimball’s talk years ago against hunting may have been an equivalent. If you want to see a “real” man get defensive, remind him of Pres Kimball’s “Don’t Shoot the Little Birds” talk. I nearly got thrown out of a stake president’s office once, and I was only joking.

]]> By: Proud Daughter of Eve http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65710 Proud Daughter of Eve Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:02:47 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65710 <img src="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/harpingheather/housework.jpg" alt="Houswork Rorsach" /> Houswork Rorsach

]]> By: Dan Ellsworth http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65708 Dan Ellsworth Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:01:11 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65708 PDoE, I agree- I really think anyone who is still angry about Pres. Beck's talk is choosing to remain angry. I found it jarring at first, but that has also been true of some of my favorite talks. Pres. Beck's talk has changed in status from legitimate subject of lively debate to emotional rorschach test. PDoE, I agree- I really think anyone who is still angry about Pres. Beck’s talk is choosing to remain angry. I found it jarring at first, but that has also been true of some of my favorite talks.
Pres. Beck’s talk has changed in status from legitimate subject of lively debate to emotional rorschach test.

]]> By: Proud Daughter of Eve http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65706 Proud Daughter of Eve Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:54:09 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65706 <blockquote>If one of the brethren said to us “Brethren, providing for your family is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be in the highest tax brackets relative to other men,” a statement like that would have caused a firestorm and would have left a good number of men feeling like they just got neutered.</blockquote> A good point, though I don't think the situations are quite analogous. Every woman -- from the darkest, most cramped little apartment ever to be called public housing to the most luxurious mansion -- can control the level of cleanliness in her home. There's very little a man can do to put himself in the highest tax bracket. That would be saying that every man in the church must have the same job, whereas what Sister Beck was saying that every woman should strive to do her job well. (I believe that doing that job well includes permanently assigning certain chores to someone other than myself. No one said being the best at housework doesn't include some healthy division of labor!) Maybe a better example would be: "Brethren, providing for your family's needs -- not wants! -- is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be the best at saying "no!" to their kids." ;)

If one of the brethren said to us “Brethren, providing for your family is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be in the highest tax brackets relative to other men,” a statement like that would have caused a firestorm and would have left a good number of men feeling like they just got neutered.

A good point, though I don’t think the situations are quite analogous. Every woman — from the darkest, most cramped little apartment ever to be called public housing to the most luxurious mansion — can control the level of cleanliness in her home. There’s very little a man can do to put himself in the highest tax bracket. That would be saying that every man in the church must have the same job, whereas what Sister Beck was saying that every woman should strive to do her job well. (I believe that doing that job well includes permanently assigning certain chores to someone other than myself. No one said being the best at housework doesn’t include some healthy division of labor!)

Maybe a better example would be: “Brethren, providing for your family’s needs — not wants! — is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be the best at saying “no!” to their kids.” ;)

]]> By: Proud Daughter of Eve http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65705 Proud Daughter of Eve Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:40:16 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65705 Austin (#32) I wouldn't be surprised. Study after study says that's pretty much what most men and women do. The women discuss and analyze their feelings to death while the men just sit on them. (Er, their feelings, not the women!) fmhArtemis (#28): Like I said at the end of the post, I don't intend this for judgment of anyone. I found your post amusing myself. In conjunction with all the other reactions though, the fact that you chose to post it just then said something else to me too. That's all. Dan (#24): I'm sorry if it appeared I was coming down on you. In retrospect, I might have worded some of that (#22) a little differently. I'm not, for the record, trying to make this an issue of anyone vs. anyone. I'm just amused (in a combination of humor and annoyance that I'm sure God is very familiar with by now) by the very human tendency to be dissatisfied when you finally get what you've been asking for. I agree that we should take some care not to offend others, especially those we're ministering to. On the other hand, some people will be offended by anything and at some point you've just got to forge ahead -- it's that or tie yourself in such complete linguistic knots that the point you're making is totally incomprehensible. Austin (#32) I wouldn’t be surprised. Study after study says that’s pretty much what most men and women do. The women discuss and analyze their feelings to death while the men just sit on them. (Er, their feelings, not the women!)

fmhArtemis (#28): Like I said at the end of the post, I don’t intend this for judgment of anyone. I found your post amusing myself. In conjunction with all the other reactions though, the fact that you chose to post it just then said something else to me too. That’s all.

Dan (#24): I’m sorry if it appeared I was coming down on you. In retrospect, I might have worded some of that (#22) a little differently. I’m not, for the record, trying to make this an issue of anyone vs. anyone. I’m just amused (in a combination of humor and annoyance that I’m sure God is very familiar with by now) by the very human tendency to be dissatisfied when you finally get what you’ve been asking for.

I agree that we should take some care not to offend others, especially those we’re ministering to. On the other hand, some people will be offended by anything and at some point you’ve just got to forge ahead — it’s that or tie yourself in such complete linguistic knots that the point you’re making is totally incomprehensible.

]]> By: Austin http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65704 Austin Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:31:48 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65704 Dan - I agree. I also hope that people who took offense can look at this whole situation, sigh, laugh a little, and move forward. Dan – I agree. I also hope that people who took offense can look at this whole situation, sigh, laugh a little, and move forward.

]]> By: Dan Ellsworth http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65703 Dan Ellsworth Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:20:39 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65703 I can only speak in conjecture, but I think the difference has to do with the fact that there is nothing they say to us in Priesthood that touches on our insecurities. If one of the brethren said to us "Brethren, providing for your family is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be in the highest tax brackets relative to other men," a statement like that would have caused a firestorm and would have left a good number of men feeling like they just got neutered. When I was single, I once had a stake president lecture me in a recommend interview about the process of finding a wife, and how it was my duty to be more aggressive about following that process. He was unaware that I had just broken up with someone I was crazy about, so even though his words were true when applied to men in general, it really sucked to hear that when I was already feeling like crap personally. I feel awful for Pres. Beck, because there is no way she intended for her words to affect so many people the way they did, and I feel even more awful about the nastiness in the discussions of her talk. I really hope Pres. Beck can look at this whole situation, sigh, laugh a little, and move forward. I look forward to hearing from her in six months; I think she'll be great. I can only speak in conjecture, but I think the difference has to do with the fact that there is nothing they say to us in Priesthood that touches on our insecurities. If one of the brethren said to us “Brethren, providing for your family is your most important responsibility second to fatherhood, so LDS men should be in the highest tax brackets relative to other men,” a statement like that would have caused a firestorm and would have left a good number of men feeling like they just got neutered.
When I was single, I once had a stake president lecture me in a recommend interview about the process of finding a wife, and how it was my duty to be more aggressive about following that process. He was unaware that I had just broken up with someone I was crazy about, so even though his words were true when applied to men in general, it really sucked to hear that when I was already feeling like crap personally.
I feel awful for Pres. Beck, because there is no way she intended for her words to affect so many people the way they did, and I feel even more awful about the nastiness in the discussions of her talk.
I really hope Pres. Beck can look at this whole situation, sigh, laugh a little, and move forward. I look forward to hearing from her in six months; I think she’ll be great.

]]> By: Austin http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65700 Austin Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:09:43 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65700 Dan - Multiple talks equivalent to Pres. Beck's are given at each priesthood meeting. Where are all the outraged men? Are the men just bottling it up, while the women are letting it out? Dan – Multiple talks equivalent to Pres. Beck’s are given at each priesthood meeting. Where are all the outraged men? Are the men just bottling it up, while the women are letting it out?

]]> By: Dan Ellsworth http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm/comment-page-1#comment-65692 Dan Ellsworth Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:41:40 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/10/08/you-can-please-some-of-the-people-some-of-the-time.htm#comment-65692 Right, because although it's good advice for the person's well-being, it's a topic that cuts to the heart of a lot of people's self esteem issues, and should therefore be approached very sensitively, with a lot of attention to <i>how</i> it is said. There's nothing wrong with putting forth that extra effort. I hope Pres. Beck takes these things to heart with her next talk; she is a good and sincere person, probably just unaware of how her comments would come across. Right, because although it’s good advice for the person’s well-being, it’s a topic that cuts to the heart of a lot of people’s self esteem issues, and should therefore be approached very sensitively, with a lot of attention to how it is said. There’s nothing wrong with putting forth that extra effort.
I hope Pres. Beck takes these things to heart with her next talk; she is a good and sincere person, probably just unaware of how her comments would come across.

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