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my only problem with this post is this sentence. “liberals” here’s why I hate wal-mart: it sucks any will to live right out of me. |
Hilarious – I had not thought of Homer Simpson. What does “it sucks any will to live right out of me” mean? Does Target and other large retailers do the same? If so, then you are consistent which is what I expect of you – hate them all equally. |
I am not a Wal-mart Hater, but my sister loathes the place. It has to do with their unique corporate policy that they do not purchase product sold in their stores, but instead sell everything on consignment. This way, they can offer a greater diversity of product with less risk if it doesn’t sell. As a vendor, she absolutely hated the way she was treated by them and has sense boycotted them… |
I can understand why vendors hate Wal-mart, but as a client, I just want the cheap swimming suit for my 7-year-old. I’m not too picky about the details. I’m an average American in this respect. (OK, OK, I shop at Costco and not Sam’s, but there are a lot of times when I just need to hit Wal-mart; probably twice a month.) http://www.behindthecounter.com is a GREAT anti-Walmart-customer blog (from the perspective of a returns person). |
If I were rich, I would choose Target to be my discount department store. I love Target. Also TJ Maxx. But I can’t live without Wal-Mart (although like Melanie, sometimes I feel my brain cells dying exponentially). This is what I buy at Wal-Mart: Minute Maid Pulp Free OJ about $1.70 (when the kids were small, we went with the really cheap stuff) Prego and alfredo sauce: $1.39 Baby gifts, clothes for my grandkids, my jeans (Hey, they have those kind that you buy the waist and inseam. I’m petite, but chubby. I won’t tell you what I weigh, but my waist is more than my inseam)–good ones, too. Not Lucky or Silver, but still. My mom’s clothes and bras (I go around feeling them all to see if they have underwire and buy her really cute ones, cheap also). Laundry supplies, butter (cheapest), and bulk freezer foods when I can’t get to Costco. I also buy: cards, towels, paint, plants, CD’s etc. I live in Cedar, Wal-Mart’s all we’ve got. K-Mart closed up and Target’s in St. George. But you who know me know that I worked for Wal-Mart, briefly (they threw confetti after me as I quit and danced a happy dance) and I loved working there. It almost killed me off, it’s darn hard work, but I now have a true love and empathy for every darn cashier who I know work their buns off for very little and who are usually hungry, thirsty and have to go the bathroom with only 15 minutes here and there. And if they get sick, they go to work anyway because Wal-Mart treats you like crap if you call in sick. I worked sick. No lie, coughing all over, keeping hand sanitizer constantly on my hands and waving from under the checkstand when I went down to get a cough drop. Those people work hard. Management, not so much, I guess it’s like that everywhere. The little people who work there, though, need that job. The benefits, and the paycheck. Think of them next time. Sorry about your sister, Matt. I don’t think they’re fair to their employees, either. I sure as heck think they don’t pay enough. But that was a huge shock to my system. I’d pay somebody to work for me housecleaning twice that much. Some stuff I only buy at other stores, but without Wal-Mart, we’d be drinking the cheap stuff. And eating less pasta sauce. |
yes they do, but some are more tolerable than others. take costco, I know what i’m going to buy when I get there but since they turn over merchandise so frequently, I get preoccupied with all the “new stuff” to notice that it’s a zoo. they also have the free samples to take your mind of the 70 mile long line awaiting you at the checkout. And their employees are paid a decent wage and are typically satisfied with their job so if you ask them a question (why would you need to the store is user friendly) they are able to answer with competence. I’ve learned to make it a priority to only go there when it’s not a Saturday and I am in a good mood. target is just way to trendy but it’s got good design working for it so i will go there if I have to. but again, I avoid shopping as much as possible. kmart and shopko just suck! like some scary hybrid of walmart and target. not quite one or the other and they just got it all wrong. I won’t go in there except to use the bathroom or in case of emergency and even then my eyes are bleeding when I leave. and then there’s walmart. since that is the closest to the house (my life happens within a 5 mile radius) it’s also the bank and the best place in town to get the jumbo red vines…guaranteed to be fresh. BUT the lighting sucks, the lines are way to long, and do not under any circumstances ask an “associate” for help you will want to slit your wrists right there against the film counter. |
I had a client who was a vendor to Wal-mart. Wal-mart was very unethical to them, and tried to screw them at every possibility. I think some of the things Wal-mart did were such they could have been taken to court, but suing them over breach-of contract just means you lose them as a customer, and they buy their stuff from other suppliers who will let them walk all over them. I’ve since talked to other people who worked for companies that sold to Wal-mart, and Wal-mart does have a bad rep among vendors. |
This may be totally irrational, but I don’t like going to WalMart because it always feels dirty and disorganized. BTW – I’m not a liberal. |
I love Wal-Mart. I just wish there was one closer to where I live in Milton. |
When I was poor I went to a local pharmacy to fill a prescription for me. It was $75 for a one month supply. I went to Walmart to fill the prescription and the pharmacist informed be I could get this over the counter for only $1.96. My local pharmacy was trying squeeze water out of a craisin. Walmat is also single handedly saving the record industry. They are the largest cd retailer in the USA. I love to shop at Walmart. And yes I do think they are evil. But the oil companies are evil. The diamond industry is evil. Apple computers is evil. This fact doesn’t stop me from purchasing an iPod for my daughter, buying a 1/2 carat diamond bracelet for my wife, and a case of oil for my car. And guess what? I can accomplish all of these tasks as Walmart. Im curious. If I buy Hanes® Men’s Fleece Pants with Zippered Hems at Walmart, are they considered Sweatshop Pants? |
Here is a Womans Story I found on Digg.com about Walmart’s Merchandise. These sandals actually chemically burned this poor womans feet. |
When we lived out in rural Pennsylvania, we always went to Wal-Mart. It was the best choice for shopping because we could shop for food and anything else we needed all in a jiffy. Now that we live in New York, we shop at numerous smaller shops for food. There is a Wal-Mart close by, but we don’t currently have a car and it would otherwise be a pain to get to. I have mixed feelings about Wal-Mart. On the one hand they offer a lot of stuff in one big package. On the other hand, most of it is crap. I can’t tell you how much I like being back in New York City and getting great cheese, or really good pasta. These smaller stores would lose out to Wal-Mart if Wal-Mart ever got a foothold in New York City. I think quality is being jipped for low price. And I’d rather have the quality. |
Wal-Mart sells more alternative lights than any other source. If we are going to get away from incandescents, Wal-Mart may be the force that actually makes it happen (100 million units so far). |
There might be reasons to hate walmart (such as unfair negotiating practices with suppliers), but “killing the little guy” isn’t one of them. Our society demands progress, which I interpret to mean more and better products and services available to more people (read: for less money). If we didn’t have progress we’d all be living in tents and herding goats (ok, maybe not all of us). Progress means that those that aren’t able to provide more and better products and services for less will go out of business in favor of those that are. Walmart’s business model allows them to do that. Many small businesses are stuck in the past. That may seem harsh, but that’s the way our economic system works. The same principle applies to employment. Factory workers are losing their jobs as high-tech jobs are increasing. Should I feel sorry for the factory worker and want to help them? Sure, but not by creating programs that support their jobs artificially, but rather by retraining them for different jobs. So instead of feeling sorry for the small business, we ought to be thinking of ways to help them adjust to a progressing market. I know what you’re thinking: Wal-marts products are better, they’re junk! Well I think if you compare what you could buy 50 years ago for your money with what you can buy now from wal-mart, you would see that there is progress. As for the argument that they don’t pay their workers a living wage or provide health insurance. Ok, so don’t work there. Since when did every job need to pay a living wage? We’ve never applied that standard in the past. If we have such a shortage of high paying jobs that over-qualified people are forced to work at walmart, we have a problem–but that’s not walmart’s fault. |
When Wal-Mart came here, the goal of its manager was to put Albertson’s out of business. They darn near succeeded. They’re ruthless like that. That guy hung on, though, bless his heart. ( Albertson’s manager) I shopped there as much as I could for that very reason. |
I don’t shop at Wal-Mart because they don’t pay their employees a living wage. Instead, they encourage their employees to sign up for government assistance. It’s uncharitable and it’s bad business. When you’re own employees can’t afford to buy your products, you’ve shot yourself in the foot. Also, as far as I’m aware, Costco doesn’t demand their landlord build a building to their specifications then move out, leaving a building that no one else can use. The Wal-Mart up here had a nice set-up and they moved across the street into a “Super” Mal-Mart center last year. The old place is still empty because who else can fit in that ludicrously huge space? (Said huge space is also expensive to heat and cool; why don’t they just do two floors? The electricity costs would be less and there’d be less productive earth lost to concrete. I’d hardly expect anyone to farm the edges of Wal-Mart but some trees and bushes there would be a little better for the environment anyway.) |
if i’m correct, they only get the tax break if they open a new store. anyone know for sure? dan? |
#15: I’ve never seen a business that wouldn’t like to see its competition go out of business. That competitiveness is what makes the economy go. The fact that the Albertson’s manager was able to hang in there speaks to his ability to adjust to the progressing market. He deserves to be in business, but so does walmart. #16: In a free-market society, employees should be paid somewhere between what is too little to keep them from quitting and what is too much to justify their contribution to the company. If I’m an employer and need someone to do something for me, and that thing is worth $7 an hour to me, why would I pay $8? I would just not hire them if it wasn’t worth what I would have to pay them. If I was charity and gave them $8, I would soon find myself out of business, and my employee without a job. Walmart makes a lot of money, but they have a very small margin of profit. A very small pay increase across the company would have very large impact on their business. Like I said in #15, if the best people can do is to work at walmart, our society has a problem. If we give those workers other options (by increasing their skills and creating more high paying jobs), it will become harder to walmart to attract employees and they will have to pay more and give more benefits. As for the waste of space argument, did walmart force the landlord to build the building? The landlord could have rented to someone else, or else made them sign a contract that they would stay x number of years. The landlord should have considered the possibility that walmart would leave before they agreed to be their landlord. I’m not saying there aren’t bad things about walmart, I just think sometimes people are just looking for things to criticize–things that would be acceptable if it wasn’t walmart. |
I don’t shop at Wal-Mart because they don’t pay their employees a living wage. Instead, they encourage their employees to sign up for government assistance. I’ve heard this criticism before, and it seems backwards to me. One problem with “welfare” is that it effectively punishes people who get low income jobs. The solution is to make benefits available to people even if they are working. This encourages them to work, and encourages employers to hire them, allowing them to gain work experience. That seems like a perfectly reasonable liberal, compassionate system to me. But then it doesn’t make sense to turn around and criticize the employers for participating. |
13. Stephen M (Ethesis) What about low voltage lighting? Could that save the plant? We are in the process of replacing our lights in our house with Low Voltage Lighting. |
I hate WalMart because it is filthy. I have seen several disgusting things at WalMart which I will not describe because this is a family blog. I will note that I reported these conditions to a manager who seemed neither surprised nor concerned. One incident that I can mention the details of is while eating at the Subway at our local WalMart I was distracted by the Subway workers goofing off. I thought this was fine until they started having a water fight using various spray bottles full of colorful cleaning solutions. All of this directly over the sandwich bar. I lost my appetite and found someone to complain to. Again I was met with indifference. Costco employees are considerably more responsive in my experience, perhaps because by paying a living wage they can be selective while hiring and demand performance afterwards. |
I don’t mind WalMart; I like how they are using their market power to push greener packaging, energy efficiency, etc. And regarding Super-WalMart, anytime I can go one place for my groceries, household stuff, and tools, that means less driving for me, and I hate driving. WalMart has its issues, but they are here to stay, so I’m glad to see them using their influence in causes I care about. |
Mike – thanks for your comments. I agree with you completely. People love to complain about the living wage and all of these other stupid things, but does Gap or any other retailer like that pay a living wage? No, it is all market driven. I would agree Wal-Marts can be gross, although I have also seen nice ones and gross Targets. I don’t care if people don’t shop there for personal preferences, but to make silly statements about how “evil” they are, but then shop at an identical big box retailer is inconsistent. Just admit you are a snob and get on with it! |
PDOE and Anne – Does Wal-Mart really pay any less than any other retailer or fast food shop? You would probably make just as little if you worked at McDonald’s, it is just market forces at play. I would agree that Costco is likely different as is Trader Joe’s (my favorite store!). I would also be interested in finding out a source for the “Wal-Mart encourages employees to get welfare.” I have heard that before but never seen data around that. |
Dan – I agree completely, anyone heard anything from Costco or Target about environmental issues recently? |
Oh, no, I think they pay as much as any other big discount department store. I think all the cashiers deserve at least $15 an hour. You just wouldn’t believe how hard the work is physically. You think they’re just standing there. Well, you go into your kitchen, stand on a rug and pick up a five pound bag of flour and move it from one counter to another for 3 hours. It’s exercise. Had I any clue of that, I would have never applied. I don’t exercise. But I sure did for 6 weeks. And it nearly killed me. Hell, I wouldn’t exercise for $100 an hour. |
#26: No kidding. I was a cashier for only two weeks at a text book store and my knee hasn’t been the same since. #24: Wal-Mart, as I understand, doesn’t even pay minimum wage. They don’t hire full-time people; they just hire lots of part-time people. All of you talking about market forces quit it. There are some things more important than market forces; there’s no way we should let these “market forces” make or justify our decisions. There ought to be a salary cap. No CEO should make more than 100x what their lowest paid employee makes. I realize that’s a whole other can of worms but I think the $23 million that got paid to the CEO of Wal-Mart in 2003 cost the company more than paying a living wage in the long run. http://www.iccr.org/news/press_releases/pdf%20files/walmart051707/wmt_paydisparity.pdf |
I have no moral objection to Wal-Mart, but I can’t stand the lines. The interminable, horrible lines. Twenty checkstands stand there, yet there are never more than three open, each with half a dozen people with totally full carts. I’d just go somewhere else, but there is no place else that sells most non-food items I need within 80 miles. It’s torture, I tell you! |
I’m sorry, but any contention that Costco and WalMart are “identical” is simply a sign of the ignorance. I’m not claiming that Costco should be up for sainthood, but there are substantial differences in how their operations are run. |
This is sort of like trying to convert people to a different religion. Most people have strong opinions about Walmart, and will just put their head in the sand when they hear the other side. I’m sorry, but Devyn, saying Walmart is no different than any other retailer simply means you hasn’t done much research. (Google/yahoo/ask are your friend here). The argument about being against poor people buying things is silly too. I can make a bunch of arguments that appeal to the econ folks. One example, legalize drugs. You’d eliminate a lot of violence and crime, as well as help the economies of countries who are feeding our drug habits. Silly but I got to call foul on using “liberal” in the title too. That’s just too vague a term. That would be like me saying “An Orthodox Mormon against the war in Iraq”. (Hey I actually read the Sunday School lesson outside of class, so I must be orthodox, whatever that means). |
PDOE – Two quick things: (1) According to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/12/lead_07ceos_CEO-Compensation_Rank_10.html) Wal-Marts CEO in 2006 made $8.6M number 201 in the list (for a company that is one of the top 5 in size in the world) with Costco’s CEO making $13.2M and ranked 136. So there are a lot more people making a lot more than Scott at Wal-Mart. CEO pay is excessive, but I think singling Wal-Mart out is wrong – it goes across the board. (2) By law they have to pay minimum wage to even part-timers. Anne – I worked as a waiter for five years – you are right it is physically demanding and basically sucks. ARJ – I agree there are differences, but in the end they are all corporations out to make a buck, so while Costco may be better to their employees (which shows in the quality) they are also more expensive which means that the poor who shop at Wal-Mart usually cannot afford Costco – you get what you pay for I think. |
Real Matt – I agree about the conversion piece. The reason I used liberal was to avoid the Democrat label as I don’t see myself as one, but it is a fair point. However, since I use the label for myself, I can call myself whatever I want :) As for the fact that Wal-Mart is like other retailers, please enlighten me how they are so different. They are certainly bigger on protecting the environment than other retailers, they are bigger than others, and do some things that others don’t like but they are profit minded like everyone else. So why do you hate Wal-Mart? |
For your enjoyment, something from Steve Sailer: The normal geniality of American business life comes at the cost of a certain level of corruption—you take your clients’ decision makers out to fancy restaurants, golf courses, and NFL games in the hopes of developing a relationship that will cloud their judgment of what they owe their stockholders. But Wal-Mart utterly banned attempts to make friends with their headquarters employees. All meetings between visiting salesmen and Wal-Mart staff took place in windowless cells that wouldn’t look out of place in Abu Ghraib. Their negotiating techniques stopped just short of waterboarding. |
A headhunter I used to work with once tried to get me a gig at Wal-Mart HQ in Bentonville. I made it through the interview process to the point an offer was made. When I told them that the salary was a little on the low side, they didn’t budge, and instead told me that they expected people on salary to routinely work a 50 hour week. For your first three years of employment, you get 5 days of paid leave per annum which you can use for sick leave or vacation. This is how their relocation package works: When an 18 wheel rig is unloaded at the WalMart in your town, you are on your own to get all your furniture and stuff over there and loaded. Then they will haul it to Bentonville, and then you have 24 hours to unload everything and get it all to your new house. I declined their offer. |
Thanks John Mansfield – that was entertaining MarkIV – wow they are tough. Sam knew how to run a lean business… |
Every time I read this debate (again and again), I pull out my DVD of “You’ve Got Mail”, and watch Joe Fox/Tom Hanks rail about the small insignificant Shop Around the Corner “full of its own virtue”. And I smile. You might as well pass a law forcing people to have taste and only buy quality stuff. Whatever. I still like WM for the occasional “just need it, don’t care about the quality.” I’m not forcing anyone to shop there; they can shop at Small Pretentious Store all the want. Do what you want. It’s the American way. |
Queuno – amen – I agree completely Long live Wal-Mart! |
I have two objections to shopping at Wal-Mart, I haven’t set foot in one for over 4 years. They have a history of treating their female employees from management down to their cashiers like dirt, and any kind of clothing or electronics I bought there to save $5 was absolute crap. I understand I’m choosing between the lesser of two evils when I shop at Costco or my local chain grocery story, but even the slightly lesser evil helps me feel better. And the monstrosity they recently built in my town sealed the deal. The parking lot itself could probably hold every car in Syracuse. |