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Nice post Dan. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your experience with this other LDS person. I love reading things like this. |
I ditto Danithew. :) |
Dan, I absolutely do believe there are those working on the other side for our good. It’s almost magical or mysterious when these things happen. I think they happen much more often than most people realize. Yesterday, I think Bill’s mom whispered in my ear. Because he came home grumpy and we argued over something I’d told him and he hadn’t heard (he forgot his hearing aids). At that moment, he reminded me of his mother. And I looked up and I said, “Wilma, I will never forgive you for what you’ve done. I will never live with you in eternity.” And I was all mad, and then oddly, I felt this feeling come over me (hmmm…that looks wrong to me, oh well) and I just felt compassion for Bill. I went in where he was lying on the bed after taking some excedrin and I said, “Having a bad day, Hon?” And you know, he was nice after that and I’d made a really great dinner and everything lightened. I still don’t like Wilma and boy, does it bother me when Bill reminds me of her, but she loves her son and I think somehow she made me see the situation through her loving eyes. I know, I know, if I’d been a loving wife, she wouldn’t have had to do that. After my beloved aunt, I talk to my dead mother-in-law most of all the dead people. Mostly I’m chewing her out and saying, “SEE what you did??” |
annegb, I hope I never have to chew out a dead person… |
Ellsworth, thanks for the great post. I could use an experience like that right now in my life. |
Well, I sure don’t worship my mother-in-law. Maybe after you’ve lived twenty more years and you have more dead relatives, and you know they’re just right “over there,” you might talk to them. I’ve chewed out other dead people, though. Oh my heck, the kvetching I do! Maybe I’m a little Asian in my feelings of being close to the dead. They’re not, really. Dead, that is. They hear me, yes, they do. I’ll probably get smacked really hard up the side of the head when I die :). The thing about your story, Dan, is that someone on the other side cared about you and someone on this side listened to a prompting. I believe that’s one of the ways God works in our lives and that if we paid closer attention, we see these types of “coincidences” all around us. |
I think that this is one of the reasons a lot of people loved Elder Bednar’s “Tender Mercies” talk. These kinds of experiences are something many members have in common. I know it was brought up in RS and just in other conversations for a long time after that conference. After that talk, I started to try to pay closer attention so as to notice those experiences and be more grateful for them. |
You know, Dan, I’ve had sacrament meeting experiences like that too. On my Grand Italian Adventure after college I was looking for the branch on 2 consecutive Sundays (in Rome, then in…wherever Lake Como is), and first I ran into another member at the hostel where I was staying, and then I found a hotel worker who looked it up in the phone book. Going to church meant more then, probably because I had to put in a great effort to get there. Anyway, those were two very memorable experiences for me. |
I believe. |
I think we’re supposed to thank Heavenly Father for all good things. It’s not in our theology that the dead actually do things directly to us or for us on their own, at least not with Heavenly Father’s direction or approval. However, I think it correct that the dead can be messengers, as in a kind of angel, working under the direction of Heavenly Father. Which in that case, we are again to thank Heavenly Father. Then, a dead person can, and is still supposed to, pray, right? So Anne’s mother-in-law prays to Heavenly Father to bless Anne for Bill’s sake, and so then Heavenly Father tells the Holy Ghost to influence Anne and soften her heart so she can cut Bill some slack. Dan Ellsworth: These little coincidences that mount up to being a kind of evidence are cool, but, to me at least, they still don’t add up to the “God told me so” kind of personal revelation/testimony about the truthfulness of the gospel. Yeah, at some point a string of coincidences stop being mere coincidences and establish an intelligent pattern. However, as much as I like to “boast in the Lord” (as Ammon), or “brag on God” for the wonderful things He’s done for me, I would not want to put forth the pattern of too-many-coincidences-to-be-just-coincidence as a reason to believe in the basice tenets of the restored gospel. By the way, I have a feeling that the brother who left you the note already has an understanding of the uniqueness or special-circumstance of encountering you. Sometimes the messenger is inspired of the Spirit to go/do/say something. Sometimes the recipient is the one who is inspired of the Spirit to go/do/say something. Sometimes both have to act on promptings to make the meet-up. And sometimes, Heavenly Father and the Spirit handle everything without any conscious input from either party. I testify that the Spirit can put ideas, feelings, and desires into us in such a way that it seems like our own idea/feeling/desire, and not a spiritual prompting at all. And, if Heavenly Father is willing to give out those little “tender mercies” (or “spiritual doggie treats” as I sometimes call them) when we don’t even ask, think of what more he could or would do just for the asking. |
Bookslinger,
I know what you’re saying, and I have experienced personal revelation about the Gospel as well- I don’t mean to minimize its importance. But the little experiences are significant to me too… |
Dan, this is your sister. Shame on you for not sharing this with your FAMILY! Haha..I’m kidding. I’m so glad that you are being watched over. Of course you are. Did you notice my well wishes to you on my Enjoy Winter post on our blog? |
Oops, minor correct: “… at least not with Heavenly Father’s direction or approval.” Should have read: “… at least not without Heavenly Father’s direction or approval.” Dan Ellsworth: What would you say are ways that we can a) prepare for, b) be in the right place for, c) invite, and d) recognize, those kinds of experiences? |
Bookslinger,
Honestly, I have no idea. I can say it’s not necessarily a matter of righteousness, because I’m not that righteous and I still have spiritual experiences from time to time. But I can also say that I notice that they happen more often when I’m out of my comfort zone, either in service or in the environment where I’m living. At home, I have so many fun things around me that maybe sometimes I don’t feel like I need anything more. |
Rebecca, Hey sis, I appreciate the reprimand from Beantown; make sure to add this blog to your favorites. Love ya. |
If we don’t pay attention to the little kindnesses in our lives, we’ll miss out on lots of nice things. Not only does a kind Heavenly Father give us these little gifts from time to time, but also friends and family and even strangers can often be caught doing something nice. To recognise those kindnesses is to realize how blessed we are, how not alone we are. To ignor them is to live a sadder, lonlier life. It is one of the great blessings of gratitude that it warms the grateful person more than those thanked for their kindness. I once tried to thank someone who had been extremely generous and kind to our family, and told him that I wanted to do something that would show that appreciation. He said, “That service is done. It’s in the past. Let’s just move on.” A mature man, he had done what he had done and was finished. I, on the other hand, treasure those considerations 20 years later in my heart, where they warm me still. |
You know darn well you are watched over and we know that it’s far more sacred than ancestor worshipping. Our ancestors don’t mind a little discourse, certainly not Mom. |
I once tried to thank someone who had been extremely generous and kind to our family, and told him that I wanted to do something that would show that appreciation. He said, “That service is done. It’s in the past. Let’s just move on.†Could he have meant that your service to him preceeded his service to you? Or, the service to him was performed by someone else in his past, and he was “paying it forward” ? I, on the other hand, treasure those considerations 20 years later in my heart, where they warm me still. I have fond memories of an LDS family in Westboro MA that took me under their wing in December 1982 when I was there for a week of computer training with Data General Corp. While at their ward’s Christmas celebration, waiting for it to get started, another ward family’s daughter, about 3 years old, climbed on my lap, leaned into me and tucked her head under my chin for a minute before scampering off. That genuine expression of affection and trust created a very lasting impression. |
Bookslinger, God doesn’t only give us personal revelation re the truthfulness of the gospel, for heaven’s sake. To Him, it’s not even “the gospel.” It’s the way He operates and helps us through life. Everything isn’t about religion. Unless you go over to the other topic and I said something about religion and God and our country. Then it is. I suppose Martha had to have prayed because I sure wouldn’t listen to anything she had to say. Now my first husband’s mother, she could slap me real hard, and I’d sit up straight. She loved me, that’s the difference. |
Thanks Dan, |
Annegb: Your last comment to me seems disjointed from the comments I’ve already posted on this thread. Which comment or point are you replying to? I don’t think I stated (nor implied) the point which you appear to be countering. I agree with your first paragraph of comment #20. I did not mean to imply the opposite. The 2nd and 3rd paragraph of comment 20 have me totally lost as to what you are referring to. |
Ellsworth – So what happened? |
I have no idea what I meant :) |