67 Comments | leave a comment | RSS 2.0 for this post | trackback |
If Brigham Young’s racism plays a part in elevating Barack Obama to the office of President of the USA then I’ll have to reconsider my opinion that the ban was not inspired, but I’ll probably still wish it had never happened. That’s a bold statement. Romney’s political pyre might be the impetus to force the Church to finally deal with the ban. Of course, certain TBMs might take it as a sign that the ban must be defended. |
As someone who is able to predict the future, I agree that an Obama nomination would probably cause the GOP nominee to select a black running mate. I think that J.C. Watts would be a great choice–regardless of his skin melanin concentration. |
Gladys Knight for VP. If only to prove that Mormons aren’t robots. |
Heh, I highly doubt that Brigham Young was looking to the day when blacks could run the nation, much less the church! In an address to the Territory he said:
|
Queuno, Shhh..don’t tell the members in my ward that LDS people aren’t all robots. Some of them, that’s all they have in life, bless their little metal hearts! |
I agree that an Obama-Romney race WOULD lead to much discussion of the ban and would make many conserative African-Americans (who might otherwise have been interested in a Republican) head for Obama or simply not vote. Frankly, I think any Republican will have a hard time against Obama. But yes, the Romney factor would make it more dramatic. |
If it does end up being Romney vs. Obama I’ll have a harder choice to make. Adding Colin Powell to Romney’s ticket would make it a tougher choice. As of right now I’m voting for Obama for the primary. I really respect Colin Powell- but I don’t think he’d run out of respect for his wife, who asked him not to run before (eight years ago) so he didn’t. At least that’s what I’m remembering, it may or may not be correct. |
Well. If anybody starts up on that, I’m going to come right back at them with all the people in the Ku Klux Klan who are other religions and make the point that the ban was yesterday. Today we have the most integrated church in the world. I’m really mad that no one has picked up on the hypocrisy of griping at us about something that was corrected 30 years ago, when the real racists of the US are members of so-called “Christian relgions.” That aside, I would like to see Guiliani as our president. I could live to regret those words, but today, I’m with him. |
Actually, just last night in the middle of the night, I woke Bill up to tell him I was sorry about my outspokenness and how it might affect him and I told him how vocal I’d been about race issues, so I’m a hypocrite. He didn’t seem too concerned. Here’s something I found on Drudge about the latest polls. It’s not conclusive. (That’s sort of a dumb statement. Hmmm.) |
Our family was in a little Mexican restaurant in a small Texas town last Saturday picking up our daughter after a competition. The TV was set on a channel showing a well-known action movie. And in that moment, picking at my enchilada, watching the lead character take matters into his own hands, I realized that both parties are mistaken trying to decide who is The Next Reagan ™ or The Next JFK ™. What both parties need to do is decide who is The Next Harrison Ford ™. |
I’m really mad that no one has picked up on the hypocrisy of griping at us about something that was corrected 30 years ago, when the real racists of the US are members of so-called “Christian relgions.†This is one reason why I’m not bothered when people say we’re not christian. I don’t think being lumped into them is a good thing. When we attempt to present ourselves as theologically safe to christians, we also end up being lumped into their politics. In fact, that might be an effective PR campaign for the Church: “We believe in Jesus Christ, but we’re not christian!” |
It’s not the “not-Christian” part, it’s the “holier-than-thou” attitude when it comes to issues of race. I wish somebody would throw it right back in Huckabee’s face. |
I’m assuming everyone knows this, since I posted a blog on BCC. Just in case our little documentary has the possibility of building much-needed bridges in this issue, I’ll keep everyone informed on screenings. I listed some reviews on my blog at BCC. (DKL, I meant to get a blog written for MM, but never got around to it.) |
I’m trying to spread the word in my area of North Texas. Sadly, I’ll be on a plane. |
How are running mates typically chosen? I assumed that Hillary or Obama, whoever won the nomination, would select the other as their running mate. If they do I think they’re a shoo-in. (Shoe-in?) |
Susan, I believe the chances that either Hillary or Obama will select the other as their VP candidate are close to nil. There is a lot of animosity between the two of them right now, as both are accusing the other of stealing their limelight and “right” to the ’08 ticket. You don’t get many chances at the presidency, and if someone gets in your way, you tend not to like them very much. it is one reason why Mitt Romney will certainly not be considered a VP candidate by McCain or Huckabee, or any other Republican candidate. And vice versa. So you get a pick of the rest of the litter. For the Democratic side, you can choose from people like Bill Richardson (whose resume is quite impressive—but then again so was Cheney’s and that didn’t turn out so well for the country). You can pick the AZ governor, Janet Napolitano, who would probably be a great pick as VP. (If I were Barack Obama, this would be a great choice, and a really good jab at Hillary who attempted to be the first woman president). On the Republican side, if McCain wins the nomination, I really see him picking Fred Thompson as his running mate. I think that Thompson hung out through South Carolina to siphon off enough evangelical votes from Huckabee so that McCain would win South Carolina. Remember that in 2000, Thompson endorsed McCain in South Carolina. I see the two pairing up. I frankly do not know who Mr. Romney would pick as VP. |
It would be interesting if he selected Alan Keyes but I’m not convinced that Colin Powell would be sullied by association with the Bush Administration, so he would probably be the most likely option. |
(The wiki on Alan Keyes that I linked in # 17 notes that, in his run for the presidency in 2000, Keyes’s “best showing in the presidential primaries was in Utah, where he received 20 percent of the vote.” — of course that’s not relevant at all to Romney selecting him as a running mate but I just found it interesting.) |
God help us if either Romney or Obama is elected. One has a false religion, the other a bent for allowing and promoting murder of the unborn. Hmmmm…..maybe this is the beginning of the end. |
Just because McCain wouldn’t pick Romney doesn’t mean that Romney won’t pick McCain. I think Romney needs someone familiar with Washington if he wants to do any actual governing (you can get one outsider, but not two). I’m trying to hard to remember the last GOP or Dem ticket that didn’t have at least one experienced Washington person as prez or VP candidate. I could see Romney picking a senator like DeWine or Bunning. Or even more devious — Kay Bailey Hutchison (female, republican/moderate, Texan). |
Wait, Kirk. Which is which? |
Which is which? If your’re asking which candidate is attached to which comment…..Romney holds the false religion, Obama supports and defends abortion. How can EITHER be acceptable. For Romney to state that his “religion” wouldn’t affect how he governed, we all know that’s hogwash. Both these candidates are scary in many ways. Don’t get me wrong however. Romney has, as we all have, the right to believe and promote what ever ideas we choose, but that doesn’t mean he’d make a “good” president for our country. Nor, in my opinion, would someone who promotes the ridiculous notion that a “fetus” isn’t a “human”. Seems to me that once Obama was a fetus too, as we ALL were. Known by God before we were formed. How anyone can agree that’s it’s ok to kill unborn children and at the same time speak for us all is beyond me and beyond reason. |
OK. I forgot we had a ‘false religion’ test for president. But that’s OK. I have a ‘virulently anti-Mormon test’ for president as well. Thanks for trolling by. |
john f., I think you’re right. Romney needs to do everything possible to lock up the critical Utah vote. |
Given the chance, Romney will pick someone with military experience as a running mate but it would not be McCain. I do think he’d take Powell if he could get him, but I’m not sure Powell is interested. Obama would never choose Hillary as a running mate for the simple fact that it would be a real pain having Bill in the White House. Can you imagine? |
Does Obama really have a prayer of winning the nomination? Presently he is only soundly ahead in SC; meanwhile Hillary appears to be a shoe in in CA, NY, FL. |
Scratch “shoe”; insert “shoo”. :-) |
I thought McCain’s tribute to Guiliani during the debates last night could be translated as, “Rudy, you’re through. Get out, and endorse me.” I agree that Fred Thompson would be a likely choice for VP for McCain. I’d love to see an Obama/Richardson ticket. I don’t see HIllary with ANYONE. For Romney? Hmmm. I’f love to have it be Colin Powell. |
arJ mentioned the supposed 1998 statement for the 20 yr anniversary. I had hope that maybe the 30 yr anniversary would provide another opportunity for a statement of some kind, but if Romney is battling Obama already, that would certainly complicate the issue. It would be criticized as politically expedient, and it would be hard to argue otherwise. |
Kirk, Just curious…do you believe in ANY religion? If not, then how have we gotten through all of these years with presidents of various faiths leading our country? I just don’t see how a candidate’s religion would make his/her term frightening. I live in MA and I actually don’t recall his religion every being remotely talked about during his term, not even during the gay marriage battle with the legislature. That says something, esp. since this is MA. Gotta love religious tolerance. |
Kirk, How about the Catholic John F. Kennedy? In your opinion, would Catholicism be a false religion too? |
spencer, You are correct. At this point there is nothing that can be done. If it does become an Obama/Romney race then I would guess that nothing will be said for a long time afterwards either. I think it is very unfortunate that opportunities have been lost, regardless of the presidential race. |
First, to Rebecca. Yes, I am a firm believer, not in “religion”, but in Christianity. You are correct, we HAVE gotten thru all these years with Presidents of all faiths, however, none has been mormon. You comment “I just don’t see how a candidate’s religion would make his/her term frightening”, and then go on to state that you don’t recall his religion ever being remotely talked about….etc. I find it, as Huckabee put so plainly, impossible to seperate the faith and it’s tenets from the person and his/her life “away” from church. How could one who is a “devout” anything, Jew, Agnostic, Islamist….severe his or her intrinsic beliefs from their day to day life? Isn’t that the whole “idea” behind a person’s “faith”? Yes, when a president is elected, they take an oath, which in part requires them to say they will uphold and protect the laws of this country, but do you not concede that presidents in all cases past and present influence those very laws? I have yet to see a term where several laws weren’t either changed or began anew, in great part due to the desires of that particular president and/or his “special interest” groups. My “fear”, is that one such as Romney, who holds the beliefs that he does, could, and I mean “could”….lead this country down a road where it believes that his views on his faith are somehow “ok”, “correct”…etc. Again, if you re-read my second post, you will see….as you agree, I think we should have the right to believe what we will, but Christ taught us NOT to “tolerate” all religions, but to test them, test their prophets, hold them up to scrutiny, and then to ignore those false doctrines. Seems Jesus KNEW that those who would promote false doctrines were a danger to us all. I believe Romney holds fast to many many false doctrines from his “religion”, that scares me. Now….Bookslinger. Let’s compare apples to apples, as it were. Jews aren’t Christians. Agnostics aren’t either. Nor are atheists. Catholics believe in Jesus, a Christian concept not related to mormonism and it’s inherant beliefs. Do you even know the meaning of the word Catholic? To have a Christian in a place of leadership doesn’t scare me, in the least. After all, this country was founded on many thousand Christian principles, and to see it return to that starting point. I don’t “hate” mormons or their faith, I just know it’s filled with falsehoods and constant change, based on one prophet or another’s thinkings or “relevations”. Thanks for the questions. |
#28: I see Hillary with McCain. I’d love Romney with Powell, but that won’t happen. A VP pick for Romney would need foreign policy, southern/Evangelical support, and gravitas. Maybe Fred Thompson or Sam Nunn? My Dem choices–Biden and Richardson–never made it, so a VP pick by Obama of either guy would make me happy. |
Holy crap, Kirk, you’re an uniformed bigot AND have a wrongheaded view of political leadership. Congratultions! You’re my uber-bigot of the day! |
Every one gets their opinion Sam. Glad you elevated me so high. If you’d care to explain your name calling and accusations, I’d be happy to reply. |
Thanks, Kirk, for dropping by. Now, where are those moderators? |
Kirk, You’re off-topic. Perhaps you can find another thread about the falseness of the LDS faith. This one isn’t it. You are welcome to comment on the specific topic at hand, not the ones that you’ve brought up. |
everyone else, I suggest you ignore Kirk’s off topic comments. You’re feeding a troll and that can only end badly. |
Romney will tap Matt Blunt for VP. |
I have no idea what anyone else said, I just got so excited at the prospect of an Obama/Napalitano ticket. Holy crap. Im sure thats too good to be true though. carry on. |
Blunt would be a blunder on Romney’s part. |
Prez/VP pairs for the last few elections, with the “experienced Washington politician” with an asterisk and the “outsiders” in bold. When I say “experienced Washington politician”, I mean someone who at the time of the campaign had served in either House of Congress or was a sitting president. 2004 – Bush*/Cheney* vs. Kerry*/Edwards* If you’re a Washington outsider (Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Dukakis), picking a Washington insider seems the way to go. |
Prez/VP pairs for the last few elections, with the “experienced Washington politician” with an asterisk and the “outsiders” in bold. When I say “experienced Washington politician”, I mean someone who at the time of the campaign had served in either House of Congress or was a sitting president. 2004 – Bush*/Cheney* vs. Kerry*/Edwards* If you’re a Washington outsider (Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Dukakis), picking a Washington insider seems the way to go. |
I won’t consider Mr. Romney racist. Not in the least. I just have trouble with the “inspired” words of Joseph Smith in Genesis. That’s all, arj. btw, beautiful words from Isaiah. |
In the occasional odd moment I’ve wondered what it would be like if Mitt Romney became the Republican candidate and picked Joseph Lieberman to be his vice presidential candidate. I know that’s ridiculous – but it would be fun to see how that would go across. |
Danithew, it would be fun. |
As is per usual, mormoms simply don’t allow for anyone to disagree with their ideas and/or beliefs. And you think I’M a bigot huh? All one can do is pray that you all truly find Christ and leave your games behind, before it’s too late, as so many thousands upon thousands have already done. Cults such as this one don’t need a president coming from their ranks to “lead” our country. Like it or not, that IS on topic. Don’t be so fearful of your “religion” being disected. Invite it, if it’s “real”, it will be found out to be. If not, you will all be saved for real. |
danithew, In my odd moments I wonder what would have happened if Mitt had run as a Democrat for governor of Utah. There were rampant rumors concerning this during the Olympics and it turns out that his Deer Valley house was listed as his primary residence, making him a Utah resident. Of course the timing would have been wrong, but he could have avoided his flip-flopper label and run for President (eventually) as a moderate Democrat. |
Kirk, As I said, there are other threads for your ideas. In fact some are currently on the front page of this blog. However there are not other threads here for your less than civil tone. |
Todd, I have no idea what this has to do with Joseph Smith and Genesis. If you’d like to enlighten me I’d appreciate it. |
Kirk, you dodged the question about how you would feel about a Jewish, an agnostic, or an atheist president. Please express your opinions or viewpoints about those three hypotheticals. It is very germaine to the thread. I assert that such people’s (Jews’/agnostics’/atheists’) religious beliefs would be just as “false” in your eyes as a Mormon’s would. Therefore, what I’m getting at is, do you think a Jewish/etc president would be as unacceptable to you as a Mormon one? Next, you misunderstood (or I failed to explain my premise) about whether Catholicism is a “false religion”. I assume you’re not Catholic, but are a subscriber of what would generally be called a “Protestant” denomination in the United States. Catholicism differs from mainline American Protestant religions at least as much as Mormonism does. My assertion is that if an American Protestant person claims Mormonism to be a false religion, then by the same logic, that same person must also claim that Catholicism is a false religion due to all the fundamental differences. Hence, what made JFK acceptable as a president with a “false religion” but Romney would not be acceptable? |
Romney, should he win the nomination, will almost certainly pick a vice presidential candidate who is from the South and more conservative than he is. Fred Thompson, Mark Sanford, or Jim DeMint, for example. |
Romney might as well pick a Mormon running mate. Orrin Hatch? Jon Huntsman, Jr.? If we’re going to get a Mormon in the White House we might as well get more than one Mormon in there. He should stack his cabinet with Mormons as well. (Disclaimer: I’m joking. I think Romney might pick Fred Thompson as a running mate). |
I think somebody here is suffering from Mormon Phobia,he must have been a victim of mis-information from media and from self appointed pastors who collects money from their followers to feed themselves(most of them are now millionaires)….If you can’t respect the faith of others, whether he’s a Catholic,Bhuddist,Jew,Muslim or even a Mormon ,learn to keep it within yourself and try to live your own beliefs and if you profess to be a “christian” then learn to be Christlike.. |
With a Mormon VP, it will make it easier for the bishop to assign them home teaching assignments. |
In my odd moments I wonder what would have happened if the Olympics had been a colossal failure… |
California Condor, Romney will not be picking Fred Thompson as a running mate for one simple reason. Fred Thompson does not like Mitt Romney. He will politely decline the invitation. |
The Romney/Leiberman ticket has been proposed more than once. However, cross party executive branch hasn’t existed for at least a century although I could be wrong. The Romney/Thompson ticket has also been very popular with many Republicans. Despite some words back and forth, I think (much like Reagan/Bush Sr.) the animosity is not beyond reconciliation; not so much the other candidates. I do think that Race, with or without Obama, is going to be the front and center attack against Romney. Right now most of the attacks have come from Republicans with Democrats egging it on. However, most of the arguments of liberal Democrats against Romney (other than the Iraq War used against all Republican candidates) has been race based. I mean the real nasty and specific attacks such as O’Donnell ranted. Hate to say it, but he is the future of the Democratic political strategy. It is the one thing that has been consistantly brought up by Romney’s Democratic opponents when they have said anything against him. Mormons, be prepared to be called Racist bigots in league with the KKK, and I hope my prediction is wrong. |
The washingtonpost blog mentioned a romney-lieberman last week in: Stumped: The First Mormon-Jewish Ticket http://blog.washingtonpost.com/stumped/2008/01/the_first_mormon-jewish_ticket.html I would vote for Obama, handsdown, over any of the republican candidates, including Romney. I think an Obama-Napolitano candidacy would be terrific. If Romney and Obama were the two candidates, perhaps that might prompt a more formal articulation by the Church of what is official teaching and what is folklore. |
Not coincidentally, there are a number of people in this country who hate Mormons and Blacks. The chance to see those individuals sweat would be priceless. But like David H, I think the pressure of a Romney/Obama election would be a great way to “encourage” the leadership of the church to do a more vocal job of disavowing all the ridiculous folklore. |
#57: Yes, and we’ve never seen a presidential nominee chose someone he does not like. ;-) I’d love to see a Romney/Thompson ticket, but the hard work of campaigning just doesn’t seem to be in Fred’s DNA. |
queuno: The Pres and VP are not supposed to be together very often, because in case there’s an assasination attempt, we wouldn’t want (or most of us wouldn’t want) both dieing at the same time, because then the speaker of the house becomes president. When the president addresses the joint house and senate, where the speaker of the house is present, I think the VP has traditionally been at a remote location so all three don’t get hit at the same time. It’s been a while since I read up on it, but that’s how I remember. So, due to national security, the Pres and Veep couldn’t or shouldn’t be home-teaching companions. :=) |
Darn it, bookslinger. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall of half-hearted discussion read directly out of the Ensign. Romney/Lieberman — “One has principles, and the other is running for president!” |
queuno: I’m starting to envision the SNL (Saturday Night Live) skits if Romney becomes president. I haven’t watched it in ages. Who would play Romney? |
Bookslinger – that’s a great thought. Here are some links to some funny celebrity lookalikes for Romney: http://ballsandwalnuts.com/?p=2742 Darrell Hammond is still the best mimic on the show, and they could put him in a wig to send up the hair. Maya Rudolph is leaving, I think, but she’d be a great Mitt Romney. I ran a picture of Mitt Romney through myheritage.com’s face recognition software and it gave a 68% match to a young David Beckham and a 68% match to an old Bertrand Russell picture. Obviously, the hair is much different. |
Hydrocodone no prescription…. Hydrocodone…. |