Comments on: Can My Kids be President? Vote Odhiambo ‘48 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:50:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Mormon Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People » Super Tuesday http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76463 Mormon Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People » Super Tuesday Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:05:23 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76463 [...] cousin (hey, and don’t forget what we discussed about a possible running mate for the Odhiambo ‘48 ticket. Odhiambo-Sloan: Hope for the Future, right?). No Comments | leave a commentRSS [...] [...] cousin (hey, and don’t forget what we discussed about a possible running mate for the Odhiambo ‘48 ticket. Odhiambo-Sloan: Hope for the Future, right?). No Comments | leave a commentRSS [...]

]]> By: queuno http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76161 queuno Sat, 09 Feb 2008 04:14:03 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76161 ESO - When I said <i>I wonder if the Asian community feels rejected that he has more of their blood but they don’t get any recognition</i>, I mean that when the media decides to talk about race and Tiger Woods, they don't talk about his Thai background... ESO – When I said I wonder if the Asian community feels rejected that he has more of their blood but they don’t get any recognition, I mean that when the media decides to talk about race and Tiger Woods, they don’t talk about his Thai background…

]]> By: Naomi Sloan http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76158 Naomi Sloan Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:46:41 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76158 Or toward the family sciences! I remember a conversation about polygamy with Cousin O. I think I had some random guy that I'd met at a concert with me, and he probably didn't know how to deal with polygamy on all sides of him. Or toward the family sciences! I remember a conversation about polygamy with Cousin O. I think I had some random guy that I’d met at a concert with me, and he probably didn’t know how to deal with polygamy on all sides of him.

]]> By: ESO http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76124 ESO Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:29:05 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76124 Naomi--good point on past divisions that are currently less important. I would guess your half-Japanese cousins and cousins-in-law have had very different experiences--would be fascinating to compare. Yes--fascinating discussion about selling out. I would guess that inheriting my lack of tact could put the kabosh on a political career. Yes, I did not raise the Mormon issue--too hard to predict how that will play decades from now, but it could effectively cancel out any advantage of being black. And, of course, polygamy on both sides of the family. I better encourage them towards the arts. Naomi–good point on past divisions that are currently less important. I would guess your half-Japanese cousins and cousins-in-law have had very different experiences–would be fascinating to compare. Yes–fascinating discussion about selling out.

I would guess that inheriting my lack of tact could put the kabosh on a political career.

Yes, I did not raise the Mormon issue–too hard to predict how that will play decades from now, but it could effectively cancel out any advantage of being black. And, of course, polygamy on both sides of the family. I better encourage them towards the arts.

]]> By: Naomi Sloan http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76122 Naomi Sloan Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:09:18 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76122 Hmm... that's an interesting question, cousin ESO. I wonder what the social landscape will be like with the younger Odhiambos are ready to run. I would hope hope hope that by then the current social, ethnic, class divides are bridged and mixed up enough that race really isn't a criteria. I think that categories like Italian, Irish, Polish, Armenian, etc. used to be a lot more divisive and socially charged than they are now--probably because of intermarriage (and thus the diluting of pure ethnic identity) and perhaps the succession of other anxieties over immigration. So we'll have to see if that happens with the categories of black, Asian, hispanic, etc. I have cousins who are half Japanese (grew up in UT), and I don't think (of course, I don't really know) that they've experienced limitations from either being completely non-white or identifying as biracial. But my husband has cousins who are half-Japanese (growing up in Japan), and I wonder what their experience of being biracial is over there. There was a really interesting discussion on an NPR show last night about the term sellout in the African-American community. They didn't bring up being biracial, but there was a sense that if you acted white or claimed whiteness, you were selling out. And in listening to Obama's comments about whether or not Bill Clinton is the first black president ("I'd have to gauge his dancing and music abilities to see if he is really a brother"), it seems like blackness if as much a social and cultural construct now, as it is a racial one. To modify that one comedian (Foxworthy?) if you can drop it like it's hot, you might be black. So, dear eso, it all comes down to whether or not you're going to raise your children in the vein of your Victorian-novel reading family. One more thought--clearly I'm not formulating this in the most efficient way possible--I wonder if a Mormon identity would end up being more defining than a racial identity. Maybe, maybe not--I could see it going both ways. Hmm… that’s an interesting question, cousin ESO. I wonder what the social landscape will be like with the younger Odhiambos are ready to run. I would hope hope hope that by then the current social, ethnic, class divides are bridged and mixed up enough that race really isn’t a criteria. I think that categories like Italian, Irish, Polish, Armenian, etc. used to be a lot more divisive and socially charged than they are now–probably because of intermarriage (and thus the diluting of pure ethnic identity) and perhaps the succession of other anxieties over immigration. So we’ll have to see if that happens with the categories of black, Asian, hispanic, etc. I have cousins who are half Japanese (grew up in UT), and I don’t think (of course, I don’t really know) that they’ve experienced limitations from either being completely non-white or identifying as biracial. But my husband has cousins who are half-Japanese (growing up in Japan), and I wonder what their experience of being biracial is over there.

There was a really interesting discussion on an NPR show last night about the term sellout in the African-American community. They didn’t bring up being biracial, but there was a sense that if you acted white or claimed whiteness, you were selling out. And in listening to Obama’s comments about whether or not Bill Clinton is the first black president (“I’d have to gauge his dancing and music abilities to see if he is really a brother”), it seems like blackness if as much a social and cultural construct now, as it is a racial one. To modify that one comedian (Foxworthy?) if you can drop it like it’s hot, you might be black.

So, dear eso, it all comes down to whether or not you’re going to raise your children in the vein of your Victorian-novel reading family.

One more thought–clearly I’m not formulating this in the most efficient way possible–I wonder if a Mormon identity would end up being more defining than a racial identity. Maybe, maybe not–I could see it going both ways.

]]> By: MAC http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76120 MAC Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:00:52 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76120 DKL, My kids are biracial, but also bi-cultural, bi-ethnic, bilingual and probably a few more categories too. It is academically possible to separate those things, in practice not so much. I agree with you, in the legal/civic sphere these things are over-used and abused. But they do certainly play a primary factor in their identity. Try your luck at telling a "skater" kid that they are now a "granola vegan", identities that don't even have the skin color, eye-shape, or familial origin reasoning behind them. DKL,

My kids are biracial, but also bi-cultural, bi-ethnic, bilingual and probably a few more categories too. It is academically possible to separate those things, in practice not so much.

I agree with you, in the legal/civic sphere these things are over-used and abused. But they do certainly play a primary factor in their identity.

Try your luck at telling a “skater” kid that they are now a “granola vegan”, identities that don’t even have the skin color, eye-shape, or familial origin reasoning behind them.

]]> By: ESO http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76118 ESO Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:37:58 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76118 queuno--I think Asians get the last half of his term, and he came up in the NPR discussion as the other side from Obama's choice: a black man who refuses to identify solely as such. DKL--good point, although I don't really want them to be president, I want them to have choices. queuno–I think Asians get the last half of his term, and he came up in the NPR discussion as the other side from Obama’s choice: a black man who refuses to identify solely as such.

DKL–good point, although I don’t really want them to be president, I want them to have choices.

]]> By: DKL http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76109 DKL Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:48:42 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76109 You're question gets right at the heart of the harmfulness of both identity politics and the notion of race as such. Race is a social construct built on the notion of either (a) certain (but not all) skin color variations, (b) a handful of salient eye-shape variations, or (c) the street address of one's forebears at roughly 200-300 years ago. I've never seen the point in using any of these indicators as a primary source of one's identity. As an aside, I feel the need to add (and not just sarcastically), that if you want the best for your children, then you probably should <i>not</i> want them to be president. You’re question gets right at the heart of the harmfulness of both identity politics and the notion of race as such. Race is a social construct built on the notion of either (a) certain (but not all) skin color variations, (b) a handful of salient eye-shape variations, or (c) the street address of one’s forebears at roughly 200-300 years ago. I’ve never seen the point in using any of these indicators as a primary source of one’s identity.

As an aside, I feel the need to add (and not just sarcastically), that if you want the best for your children, then you probably should not want them to be president.

]]> By: queuno http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76103 queuno Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:32:02 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76103 There is a woman in our ward with three adopted children (of mixed races). When asked what their heritage is, she replies "American". That's it. (I've also been amused by the fact that Tiger Woods coined "Cablinasian" to describe himself. I wonder if the Asian community feels rejected that he has more of their blood but they don't get any recognition. And then again, shouldn't we be actively trying to get past this.) There is a woman in our ward with three adopted children (of mixed races). When asked what their heritage is, she replies “American”. That’s it.

(I’ve also been amused by the fact that Tiger Woods coined “Cablinasian” to describe himself. I wonder if the Asian community feels rejected that he has more of their blood but they don’t get any recognition. And then again, shouldn’t we be actively trying to get past this.)

]]> By: Dan http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm/comment-page-1#comment-76081 Dan Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:27:03 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/02/08/can-my-kids-be-president-vote-odhiambo-%e2%80%9848.htm#comment-76081 I might be dead by then. But my daughter might vote for them. :) I might be dead by then. But my daughter might vote for them. :)

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