Devyn, aren’t there genetic components to clinical depression? Oops.

Can anyone with a touch more time than I have point Devyn to the myriad Bloggernacle posts about this Utah/anti-depressants issue that have been fought out in the past?

John, I know it has been fought out in the past, but people throw anecdotal data at it. I think that somewhere someone must have done some research that gets to the bottom of it instead of anecdotal reasons.

Maybe this is a contributing factor: The birth rate in Utah is very high. Post partum depression affects A LOT of women. So, you have a baby and feel depressed and get hooked on prescription meds. (Happened to my sister)

I am sure there are a lot of other things that add to it. Like people putting to much on their plate. (church callings, work, family, finishing up school..and and and)

From the study itself:

Although Utah continued to be the
state with the highest prevalence of
antidepressant use, it had one of the lowest
rate increases of any state (2.4%) between
2000 and 2006.

The “Good, Better, Best” talk must have worked. Yeah, that explains it.

I’m gonna have to second what Wm Morris said, without more information about ExpressScripts it means absolutely nothing. Does ExpressScripts include any information on the geographical market share?

Hopefully this isn’t the source of the weirdly durable, in the absence of real data “Utah is the most depression medicated state” meme.

I Googled it and found that a number of apparent references to earlier annual ExpressScripts information releases, here and here. Seems like it all started with a similarly unquestioned reports in 2001 and 2002.

I did find a BYU study and a Deseret News article refuting the idea that Utah consumes anti-depressants at rates greater than the national average.

I’m fairly new to the bloggernacle, so I haven’t been in on a lot of Utah/ anti-depressant conversations.

I can’t help but be embarrassed of the hypocrisy of the church implied in these studies, as John in #4 alluded to. Exactly how much of the studies results can be attributed to church culture is up for debate, but it would be naive to think that the amount is insignificant.

Society tells us that the involvement of alcohol in social situations is expected, and in fact makes the situations more enjoyable. And let’s face it - with all the problems that overuse of alcohol brings, a lot of reasonable people think that it plays a positive role in their life. LDS seem to have found their answer to a social lubricant - a chemical solution to mental and social health problems.

I may be overstating the issue - maybe we’re not that much worse than everyone else on this. But if we truly believed in the spirit of the WOW as it is taught now, we would take a lot less anti-depressants that everyone else.

LL

Doesn’t change the fact that all the articles apparently cite the ExpressScripts reports, which in turn states “percentage of insured people using Express Scripts in each state.”

The US News article that is linked in the original post and the older CBS story and the SL Tribune article all seem to refer back to these meaningless numbers.

Is there any proof at all that Utah uses or has ever used prescription antidepressants at above average rates?

Off-topic, but hey, that is what I do best.

There have been a lot of great conference talks about this, such as Good, Better, Best. I have also noticed an upswing in talks about life balance and chilling out a little when it comes to callings. But for all of those talks, the church has not eliminated meetings or responsibilities. If they want to really make an impact, they need to do more than just talk.

Anybody else find it interesting that the anti-anti-depressant studies were done by BYU and reported in Deseret News?

MAC - check out the link I sent.

dpc - exactly my question - are docs in Utah more likely to write a script for depression? However, I am doing a project at work looking at the size of the depressed population in the US and it is in the 6% range. So at 18% Utah is very high.

LL/tired mormon - of course BYU would be tasked with refuting the data. Unfortunately, as LL points out the analysis by BYU was pretty quick and dirty and, therefore, flawed.

I think DPC is hitting close to one of the factors that the study can’t cover for: “Self-medication” by alcohol. Common wisdom among psychologists these days is that a lot of alcohol use (and abuse) relates directly to untreated depression, so in a state where the dominant cultural religion strongly discourages alcohol use, I would expect (and heartily hope) to see more prescribed antidepressants.

Thanks John - I think that is an interesting finding. Of course, we know antidepressants lead to higher suicide rates in teens.

TOTLN - interesting - isn’t alcohol a depressant though? I would think you would see people self medicating with uppers?

dpc - interesting point. We Americans love our drugs. Someone has to supplement the pharmaceutical companies.

More anecdotal data:

I am a convert to the Church. I am a Hispanic. I never felt consistent depression before I was a member. Since I became a member of the Church, depression is a constant part of my life. I have never taken anti-depressants. Here are some glitches from my life that may explain my increased depression and how it correlates with being a Mormon:

Since I became a member of the church, it is as if a dark cloud would linger over my head reminding me constantly that: I am inadequate; if something has gone wrong in my life, it is because “I didn’t have enough faith that it would be otherwise,” or “I am so imperfect that it is a lesson I need to learn,” or “my situation in this life is contingent on how inadequate I was in the pre-existence, therefore, there are some blessings I am simply not entitled to because I wasn’t good enough.”

I have to bow my head and accept racist/unfair remarks that Church leaders (Prophets and Apostles) have made, because Church leaders are the “mouthpieces of God,” therefore, whatever they say is how God feels about me. I cannot oppose any of these views because I would be opposing God and therefore I would be a heretic apostate.

I bear a curse due to my Hispanic heritage, due to the wrongdoings of some ancestors I never even knew existed. I am a bearer of the “lesser” blessing of Manasseh, according to my patriarchal blessing. I am not considered for any leadership Church callings, because there is always a Caucasian counterpart that would do the job better than me. I am Hispanic, therefore I have, to a certain extent, the “lamanite curse:” I am dark and loathsome, and therefore I am not reliable.

I pay full tithing, yet I have had many financial problems and at one point I had to live of my car, eat one McDonalds 99 cent hamburger three times a day. This probably means that I don’t “faithfully” pay my tithing, or once again, “I needed to learn something,” or “material blessings are not for me because I wasn’t good enough in the pre-existence.”

I cannot express any of these feelings in public, because that would be apostasy or in the case of disagreeing with Church leaders it would be “speaking against the Lord’s anointed,” therefore I have to swallow them and put a smile on my face.

My family became members of the church thanks in part to the pressuring of a numbers-hungry missionary. They got baptized without ever having a testimony of the Church, now they are inactive. Because they have “made covenants with God” and have not kept them, they are living in sin. I won’t be able to be sealed to them in a ceremony in the temple; therefore, I will not be allowed to remain with them as a family in the next life.

I am single and last week I was again rejected by a woman from my ward to go out for a lunch date (or any type of date for that matter). It is numbing because this is basically my dating life for the last 10 years. This means chances are I will never be able to marry in the temple. Therefore the uncertainty lingers over my head that I will be an eternal single “ministering angel,” ministering to those that attained a “superior glory” because they got married.

As for the good, better, best talk… well, I am clearly out of the scope of those three terms. Since I will be lonely in the afterlife, even if I am “perfect” enough for the “Celestial Kingdom,” it seems pointless to try to get there. Therefore, sometimes I think gathering what is left of my money, purchasing a gun and blowing my brains is not that terrible of an idea. Loneliness may be better in the “Telestial Kindom,” than in the “Celestial Kingdom,” where I would have to witness and minister to all the people there with “superior glory,” thus increasing my unhappiness.

And such is my Mormon life.

MAC - Express scripts only included states for which they had a large enough sample to be relevant. They do cover 15% of the US population so it is not an insignficant amount of the country. In addition, I would disagree that there is no proof. This data clearly says that for Expressscripts customers, Utahns take anti-depressants at a much higher rate than customers from other states. That is a data point in and of itself and, likely, however, not definitive of a trend.

As for the 6% rate that is a one year incidence rate, while the prevalence rate is nearer to 15%. I did not want to get too complex, but there you have it.

Dang. My last paragraph is in response to the previous paragraph, which is a quote from MAC’s #28.

So what. When a chapter of Mothers Against Driving While on Prozac forms in my neighborhood, I’ll be concerned. Not before.

Funny, I just so happen to be starting a Fathers Against Utah Moms Having Cell-Phone Conversations While Backing Up Their Toyota Sequoias chapter here.

I think there is more to the alcohol prohibition than the physical safety of others. Driving high on pot has been shown to be relatively safe - should we be allowed to smoke a doobie every once in a while?

This makes as much sense as saying that if we truly believed the WOW, we would take less Tylenol than everyone else.

It sounds like you are saying that emotional and self-worth issues should be afforded the same “thumbs-up” access to drugs as physical pain is given in the WOW. I’m not talking about obvious chemical imbalances here. Many doctors WILL NOT HESITATE to medicate their patients if emotions issues are brought up in a visit.

I guess it comes down to if you believe a component of the WOW is avoiding addictive substances that alter our state of mind, because I think that a strong case could be made that some anti-depressant use would fall into that category. Personally, I don’t have a problem with people taking anti-depressants at all, just as I don’t have a problem with people drinking a glass of wine after dinner. (Even though I’ll continue to abstain from alcohol until the church changes it’s stance.) Both are perfectly healthy when consumed with careful moderation.

LL - I tend to disagree with that. The FDA has given a suicidality black box warning to all antidepressants used to treat teens. The data may not be absolute but certainly are trending enough to suggest that there is a link. Enough that FDA has acted.

#27 Elusive, that is one of the most profound things I’ve ever read anywhere. And saddest. I might disagree with you, dpc. She has a point.

Are you saying you think people in general are depressed and stressed out? Actually, one of my (many)pyschics told me time is going very fast these days and that’s a way of everything coming together.

I’m depressed and I live in Utah. I think I’d be less depressed in New York or New Jersey. Maybe because I could go to downtown New York once a month and scream out loud and nobody would notice.

I spoke with Bookslinger and a lady who was waiting tables at Little America’s brunch on this subject in the last month. Both agreed that it’s a lot different in other states. “It” in my conversation with Bookslinger being the church and “it” with the non-Mormon waitress (who’d lived here for 30 years) basic society. She made the comment about how people just go crazy over a person having a cup of coffee. “It’s just a cup of coffee!” She laughed.

I’m with both of them. Well, I haven’t really lived as a Mormon outside of Utah, but it’s darn hard here, especially if you’re a bit different.

Utah’s high use of thyroid medicine could be contributed to the downwinder’s thing–nuclear fallout is for real.

I don’t know stats but I know a lot of people on antidepressants. My own depression is probably less related to environmental issues and more to uh…trying to sound intelligent here, my mind is blank….hard wiring?

But like #1 said, we’ve done this subject.

annegb:

I have members of my family who are Hispanic Mormons who do not suffer from depression. I have other family members who suffer from depression and bipolar disorder. Some of them belong to religions other than Mormonism. It’s easy to point the finger at Mormonism, but depression is a lot more complicated than that. Mormonism may be a contributing factor (and to the extent that Elusive’s depression is caused by it, I feel deep sorrow for him), but there are other factors at work as well, such as chemical imbalances, genes, pessimistic outlook in general, etc.

Blaming Mormonism while failing to look at other factors is short-sighted and may possible inhibit recovery from depression. Feel free to disagree with me on that, as it is only my (possibly wrong) opinion.

But I’ve also found that life in general is pretty disappointing. Sure you have good moments, but you have to slog through a lot of negative experiences while you hope for the next good thing.

UH,

Elusive is joining us from the DAMU boards for fun and enjoyment today. I would rec deleting the post to be honest.

Everyone knows that DAMUites are the Debbie Downers of the Bloggernacle. We should welcome their refreshing remarks and possible play some kind of muted trumpet noise whenever they post something.

Elusive, If you’re not already on this side of the country, please move East of the Mississippi river and discuss those issues with a priesthood leader at the stake level.

People in MA work themselves to death, while in the South they bore themselves to death. I can’t figure out why the depression rate would be so much higher.

No. People in the South may look bored, but it’s really that we’re just secretly glad we don’t live in MA. It’s wonderful to live in a part of the country, for instance, where we actually can help decide elections. People migrate southward for new opportunity. We’ve learned to be mellow and have Yankees doing our bidding.

Then again, I’m speaking more about Texas and less about the South.

I’ve never taken medication, but I have association with many who do. Mental illness is no joke. The people I know who have mental illness get it from their family. It runs in families. Once again, I am talking about people I personally know. Three suicides in one family in the last 20 years. Well educated, successful people. When they move into severe depression medication helps but its a crap shoot trying to find the right medicine, it takes time.

For those of you who joke about this I want to let you know there is nothing funny about it.

I know that some GA take medication. Not long ago a Bishop took his life when the pressures of life overcame him. Apparently, when the depression gets severe the thinking is that everyone would be better off without them and so they do the right thing and end life with their own hand.

There are all kinds of mental illnesses I’ve described on kind. I watched a fine sister die a month ago because she got to a place where she thought it was best to end things because she hurt so bad and wanted to spare her family the pain she was causing them. Very active fine lady.

Just to add, in case the “no joking matter” comment was addressed in part to my pot joke -

I’ve been taking a generic Wellbutrin for close to four years. It probably saved my life.

Maybe, if the data are indicative of an overall practice, anti-depressants are over-prescribed in Utah. However, it may be possible that more people are actually getting treatment for their mental illness there, which is a GOOD thing.

ahem.
Why do you people insist on making this a capital case?

Elusive,
I have a href=”http://mormonmd.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/depression-a-disordered-mind-body-and-soul/”>some reading that I hope you might find helpful.

Elusive - I think many have addressed your comments. I would agree that your post is littered with false doctrine. If you throw out the false doctrine, that would make your life easier. Then combine that with not giving a damn about what some other well meaning misinformed fools tell you and you will be on the way to more happiness. Finally, move East. I hope that you will find some happiness in your life.

Doc - what do mean a “capital case”?

Fair point Bookslinger, however, it is certainly interesting that Utah’s rates are so high. However, it could be multitude of factors as have been laid out in various comments. We also know that antidepressants are used in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, Seasonal Affective Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and a host of other depression and anxiety related disorders. So either the people in Utah are being better managed and treated by physicians or there are higher rates of the disorders. The data don’t tell us that.

Have any of these studies controlled for Mormon/Non-Mormon populations in Utah? Maybe its all the non-mormons who are depressed from living on the “outside” in Mormon-dominated Utah.

That said, the only times I’ve really felt depressed in my life where when I lived in Utah, so maybe there’s something to it…

Devyn,
I mean the idea that treating depression or diagnosing it means “something’s wrong” That is the attitude I see over and over and over again and it betrays an ignorance of the causes and “blame” for depression. Please realize all this harping does is drive the problem underground. Then people don’t get help, hit the bottle, commit suicide etc. Nobody seems to consider the effect pointing fingers will have on the problem itself. Ann is exactly right, celebrate treating depression, don’t stigmatize it.

Just a comment in response to Elusive. First,I can confirm that bigotry towards Hispanics and Native Americans does exist in pockets of the Mormon church, especially in certain small Mormon communities. This bigotry has been justified by some Mormons by using the Book of Mormon (personal experience). Luckily, this is a bias that is dying out, but it is still holding out in a few places. Second, if you are already feeling insecure, it is really hard to read Nephi in the Book of Mormon, and not get really sick of all the “white and delightsome” and “dark and loathsome” phrases used to describe the Nephites and the Lamanites. I just insert “white and pastey” and “dark and beautiful” whenever I read those phrases. I do agree with MAC that Hispanic does not equal Lamanite curse, but that belief is still alive and well in certain communities (in fact my brother-in-law refers to Hispanics as Lamanites). Regardless of whether the Lamanite curse refers to Hispanics or not, the dark and loathsome passages are still troubling. Personally, I think that those words are Nephi’s words. Incidentally, if Nephi’s people did not mix with the Lamanites due to their bigotry, that simply means Nephi’s descendants were utterly destroyed rather than having a few survive due to mixing with the Lamanites. I wonder if the curse is for both the Nephites and the Lamanites. And finally, if you are of the tribe of Manasseh, it is easy to get really tired of the “Ephraim is the most blessed tribe” Sunday School discussions.
Despite all of these problems that do exist in certain pockets of the church, I do agree with the others that those problems are false doctrine. There are many church leaders out there who are of the tribe Manasseh. You should not be passed up for a leadership position because you are of the tribe Manasseh, but I know there are Mormon communities where this happens. I also I know of a certain Mormon community that had been very clearly chewed out by the visiting General Authority during Stake Conference for their bigotry towards Native Americans and Hispanics. I can only hope that this tongue lashing will extend to your stake soon. Just be prepared when members of your stake start muttering that the General Authority was not inspired on that day.

Finally, just a comment to MAC, are you northern New Mexican, or have you been listening to northern New Mexicans? Most northern New Mexicans are really proud of their genealogy, and will tell you at at length about their Basque, French and Spanish ancestors-but most also have a line or two they know little about. If that line is recent enough and you manage to find a picture of the mystery ancestor, that person often will look exactly like a Pueblo Indian. If you want to start a fight with certain northern New Mexicans, just suggest that since great-great grandma looked like a Taos Pueblo Indian, plus she was fluent in Tiwa and all her friends were Pueblo Indian, then just maybe she might have been a Pueblo Indian. Trust me, fireworks are destined to erupt. I am always amazed that northern New Mexicans are able to believe that despite living 400 plus years in close proximity to Pueblo Indians, that not a single one of them ended up with a drop of Pueblo blood.

Lynne,

First, not to threadjack, I know that racism exists in and out of the Church. I was just commenting that Elusive’s comments sound inauthentic to my sometimes tin ear. If I am wrong I am wrong.

I can only partially claim northern New Mexican, of the Rio Grand variety (not those Texans out in Tucumcari or those Mormons in Kirtland). I have been reading about the crypto-jewish influences in northern New Mexican catholic practices, very interesting. We have a friend who’s mom and aunts, from Penasco, had their marriages arraigned and that was in the 40’s, it is truly a different place. I have to admit that just mentioning the word Tiwa makes my mouth water, makes me think of feast days and pinon smoke.

I wonder, though, if we are missing the “good news” the gospel is supposed to bring when we discuss how depressed we feel by certain aspects of Mormon life.

If we believe that Jesus saves, that He loves us all, and that we cannot be perfect in this life, why are we depressed? What erroneous message are we taking from our meetings and church activity?

I know those are more like “Should we kill the puppy or should we love little dogs” stupid people questions, but perhaps if we just redirected our thinking slightly, just slightly, we might be able to lift our spirits.

I’m not arguing positive thinking as a cure-all for depression. I think it’s certainly a worthwhile concept and one we should use more, although it’s pretty hard for me to do when I’m in the depths of that despair that hits me periodically. But if I said, “My laundry is done, I smiled at a friend, I paid my tithing and have food in the pantry. I’m doing the very best I can and God loves me for it” instead of “My house is a mess and I need to lose ten pounds and I haven’t read the Book of Mormon in two weeks and I hate my neighbor…” maybe I wouldn’t be so down.

Negative, comparing thinking has a lot to do with the depression among Mormons, IMHO. Not that I am the very model of positive thinking.

dpc,
Ironic or true, but drug induced? Or perhaps it’s a product of working on what it takes, with the help of counselors, spiritual advisors, and doctors, to be happy? Sadly, the last one is dismissed out of hand because we all KNOW depression has to have an external social cause. (While I do think culture is a small part of the mosaic, even then I don’t see railing on it fixing anything.)

This is what I can’t stand, the condemning of the culture that someone lives in as a cause depression and therefore evil. Come on, it’s way more complex than that. While it may help you feel self righteous and superior, it does NOTHING for those suffering.

Anne - thanks for your comment. That is how I feel. The gospel is not to depress us. Sometimes things in it (or people) frustrate me, but it is not the Gospel. I like your approach - see the good things in it and do what we can to eliminate the bad.

Lynne,

Sorry, this is becoming a total threadjack.

My grandmother used to say that she knew which kids had been initiated into the penitentes moradas by whether or not they took their shirts off when playing basketball, to hide the scars from self-flagellation.

There was a historical biography recently published, and I have lost the reference, which detail a spanish girl growing up on the Rio Puerco, near Cabezon, and part of it included her interactions with the Mormon settlers there. I think it was published by UNM.

Have you read about the Los Lunas decalogue? A must lookup for any one interested in New Mexico history and mormonism.

And in case you didn’t click through…

Mormon women not more depressed than national average

I think there are legitimate grounds to think that Church activity brings a mixed emotional bag. There are great blessings, true, but also a great deal of pressure (both from within and without) and pockets of prejudice against numerous groups (gays, Hispanics, singles, etc.). But I think that it is unlikely that we’ll ever agree to what extent membership/activity in the Church is a cure for/cause of depression. What is more frightening to me is that some of the depressed in Utah are not Mormons, but need anti-depressants because they live among so many Mormons. Looks like we don’t make such good neighbors.

Does anyone factor in that anti-depressants are used for more than depression?

Prozac and other anti-depressants are actually used