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Man, we are a white church. |
Thanks for the write-up, Matt. I’m surprised that Mormons aren’t that much better educated (if at all) than the general population. |
I find that an interesting statistic for a church condemned by many (inside AND out) as somehow anti-woman. |
I noticed the following. Correct me if I am reading the data wrong 1. Converts are about 25% of the total self ID population I think this shows a self selection bias. In other words people who no longer ID at all with the church are underrepresented in the data. 3. 1.6% is about what about 5mm members? 4. Gender gap. Skewed female 56-44. Guess who must be happier with the church? 5. Low divorce rate 6. large families 7. High marriage rate 8. Education level did not surprise me. Lots of members in the poorer farm areas of ID, UT, AZ. Lots of SAHM who dropped out of college etc. |
bbell,
Or think of it differently, guess who must be given more callings and duties in the church… |
I think the some college vs. graduated college disparity comes from the high percentage of LDS women to begin college but then drop out after marriage and kids. Fortunately, BYU has made some effort and progress on this front. |
JWs are the fastest growing (albeit with the worst retention). Are the JWs more effective missionaries, or are there just more of them out there proseltyzing? Or did they manage to come up with something like “baseball baptisms”? |
Ben, I with disagree about the “we are a white church” comment. Mormons are 86% White. That is only 15 percentage points greater than the national total, not too out of whack, considering the European origins of most of the membership and regional distribution of membership. I don’t know that you could consider the Mormon Church as dis proportionally whiter than the communities where it is active. Just an opinion. |
I meant “I would disagree” |
What I find interesting about the gender imbalance, is that one of the arguments I have heard against admitting the women of the church to the priesthood is that it would drive men away. The idea is that men will be drawn to a traditional, all male-group, and the powers, privileges, and responsibilities it offers. But if this is true, why aren’t there more men in the church? And why don’t more men convert? We have had 6 people in our ward join the church in the last year or so and all of them we women. How do we attract more men? |
Katie,
Traditional, all male-group, and the powers, privileges, and responsibilities? Maybe an all-male group where they can burp and fart and talk knowingly about how “sometimes, it’s better to bite your tongue, because even when you are right, you are wrong.” I would guess that the responsibilities given to the male members of the Church actually reduce activity and membership in those who’s level of participation would be influenced by those factors. |
One thing that I have noticed as an adult LDS man is that there are almost no activities geared towards men in the church. When I was a kid this was not true. The social activities revolve around children and women. I am not sure why this is the case but in my exp its true. Think about a typical month in your ward. Was there a single “official” activity geared towards adult males? If I had a friend who was interested in the church I would have plenty to offer his wife and children but nothing in the form of social activities for him. (And yes I am HT and teaching with the elders an adult male nonmember whose wife and children are invited to lots of activities he has commented on this) |
BBell - I agree. Basketball is about the only thing that is offered. So if you, 1) don’t like basketball or 2) don’t want to play with some of the idiots who take it waaaaaay to seriously, there are no activities for you as a man. That is one of the reasons I love my calling with the priest quorum - the interaction and fraternity with the other adult male leaders. Between work, church callings, kid’s activities, and making sure our wives have enough personal time, men don’t have anything fun for themselves. We watch sports on TV because we can at least be home when we’re doing it. I didn’t realize I felt so strongly about this until I started thinking about it. |
Yeah, Bball is it. Usually though its not an official activity and at least around here is frowned upon by stake leaders. Our stake recently banned bball at the chapels except for saturday morning. Only problem is 50% of the time something else is scheduled. (see women’s and childrens activities) The other issue is that Men get regulary taken to the verbal woodshed. From GC to Stake Conference rarely does a 2 hour block go by without some form of male bashing. Plenty of it is justified of course. I thought the reaction to the Beck talk was ludicrous in light of all the male bashing we regularly hear. |
In opening exercises this past Sunday the elders quorum announced they were having a dodge ball game the following Saturday and invited “anyone else” (geared towards the YM) who wanted to join. So as not to miss a rare activity, I announced “The high priests are prepared to bring it on– and just so you know, our team name is the Caged Heat!” |
Matt, this looks interesting, but I’ll need a week to study it out. I like that about your posts, I’m always better for them. |
I was surprised by how median Mormons were in education and income. I would have thought that, with the glory trailing from our feet as we go and endless promise in our eyes, we would have scored a little higher. |
David, Higher income correlates to exceptional glory emitting from any appendage? |
So if the priesthood model was driving women away, what’s happening in Katie’s ward? As far as education goes, at the top end, we’re as educated as anyone. We still have a long way to go with educating the SAHM, as bbell points out. Too many women have abandoned education with the idea that “it doesn’t matter”… |
MAC, Well… I didn’t say that. |
MAC: You are right, there are key factors that go into that statistic and we are not that far from the norm. I was just taken back because from my experience (growing up in New Mexico, serving a mission in Washington DC) I would have thought that we would have had a little diversity. |
You can guess how the rest of America is going to read the disparity of men to women in this study … especially the Big Love watchers. |
Bbell-I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s an all male group without any of the fraternal benefits-ie., the stuff you mentioned-social activities geared towards men. Men need that and right now it’s all work and no play. |
One more agreeing with Bbell. My wife gets to go to women-only book club (nevermind that I read waaay more than her, often three-four novels each month), to a tongue-in-cheek jello contest (whoever heard of not inviting men to a food event?), and to other events. Some of the women’s events are things that I wouldn’t care to go to, but many are things I would happily go to–but I’m not invited, since I’m male. I don’t play basketball, therefore I don’t get opportunities to socialize with people from church. That’s lame. |
“One more agreeing with Bbell. My wife gets to go to women-only book club (nevermind that I read waaay more than her, often three-four novels each month), to a tongue-in-cheek jello contest (whoever heard of not inviting men to a food event?), and to other events.” I’m skeptical of the idea that few social events is leading to the gender imbalance in the church (it’s not that big of a deal), but I’ve noticed the pattern bbell mentioned. I tried to remedy this in my last EQ by making ribs and potatoes for all the elders (this really *would* lead to a gender imbalance if continued because it would kill them off eventually). A few results: a bunch of them brought their wives and kids anyway, they all loved it and talked about it for weeks, and they referred to the event as some kind of goofy “male bonding” activity that you do once in a lifetime, not the sort of normal EQ activity that we should have regularly. Whatever. I have other interesting, important things to do with evenings and weekends, and I’ll still be an active, happy Mormon without rib night. Changing subjects: Sure, Mormons are largely white. But there are apparently more black Mormons than black Catholics. |
What I can’t stand are the golfers. You want to tie EQ socialization to golf, then I’ll stay home and be inactive. I just wish we could have a male book club. I just can’t find any interest. Instead, I read my wife’s books for her two clubs and do her reviews for her. |
I’ll join the book club with you queuno. |
I’m surprised. I thought we were the most highly educated. I thought I read that somewhere. I also read, although I think it was Margaret Toscano and perhaps I took that out of context, that Mormonism attracts more white males than other religions, due to its patriarchial traditions. I’m interested in the divorce rate. I’m also interested to know the breakdown of all Protestant religions. I’ll have to study this out more. This is very interesting. |
PDoE, I like your point—in some ways I think Mormon women have a lot of power to go with all that responsibility which discourages us so much at times. The men of the church, while ecclestiastical leaders, rely heavily on women to do the actual work of the church. IMHO #7 Tagore, it said somewhere in there that the JW’s also had the lowest retention rate. Frankly, I think their religion—and perhaps the 7th Day Adventists, are becoming irrelevant. #10 Katie, you left yourself open One thing our ward does which has had phenomenal results and the guys love, is a five day fishing trip down the Colorado River March or April of the year. Lots of inactives and even non-members go. I’m intrigued by this—perhaps the assumption is that men find their own hobbies, men play more naturally? than women? I mean, Bill sure puts his hobbies high up on the list. |
This discussion about men being less active in our Church than women invites a link to this fine essay by my old teacher, the late Eugene England. |
Whoops, I malformed the HTML code for that link. The essay is titled “We Need To Liberate Mormon Men” and you can find it here: http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/dialogues/chapter14.htm Here is an excerpt: Perhaps we should have a blog post where we can discuss just this matter, lest I be accused to hijacking this comment thread. |
So, helping people move isn’t a male social activity? In the last week, my husband and the EQ pres have been asked to babysit for two different women’s activities (I felt so guilty I actually attended one of the women’s events). A Catholic friend of mine is very active in Knights of Columbus, but even that is more work than play. (They work the big Friday fish fry each week during Lent). It seems to me that many in the church do a lot of brown-nosing to women. The women are cherished, and the men are chastised. I wonder if this is common in other churches (e.g. reflective of society vs. unique to Mormons). Male-bashing is all the rage. I found the similarities between Hindus, Orthodox Jews and Mormons to be very interesting in the Pew report. I always pictured us closer to 7th Day Adventist, JW, etc., but over time, those groups seem to have diverged demographically from us. |
If I were a non-Mormon bloggernacle reader, I’d be terribly confused. Does the LDS church hate men or does it hate women? If I were to come to any conclusion at all, it would be that the church hates both genders thoroughly. |
hawkgrrrl - Our EQ moves about 20 people a year (either in or out). It and golf are about all they do. |
Here’s one thought - It’s my impression that activity rates for single women are massively higher than single men. This may be because social pressures on single women in the church are different than those of single men. |
[...] In my assessment of the first numbers to trickle out from this report, I noted that Mormonism, along with virtually [...] |
[...] was the Pew Forum’s U.S. Religious Landscape Survey (discussed previously by Matt B. here and here). We discussed various issues, laughed at others, and expressed mild shock at still [...] |