Mormon Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People » Do you think Prince Harry should have gone to war?

By annegb

Mar. 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am

Perhaps that’s a misleading title. Oh, well.

I do. I think he did the right thing and I’m glad Prince William is going to be stationed on a ship in the war zone. I applaud them and the British people and monarchy.

Now it’s time for American “royalty” to pony up. President Bush’s daughters need to go there, as well. Jenna’s engaged and has a wedding planned, but I think Barbara should bleach and cut her hair and go over there and just serve hamburgers in the USO if nothing else. Nobody would recognize her.

Cheney’s kids should go over there, too, and some of Rumsfield’s. Chelsea Clinton could spend some time in a war zone. I suppose Barak Obama’s girls could get a little older before they go.

We have 100 or so Senators, I don’t know how many Representatives, but I sure as heck think they should send some of their kids, as well.

I think in a time of war, anybody who is in a position to make a decision of any kind as to the way that war is conducted, should have a child over there. All the generals and admirals……every damn one of them.

Good on you, Prince Harry. Well done.

1. esodhiambo

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 11:23am

I’m with you. I wish any bill authorizing war also stated “my vote for this bill indicates my willingness to go.”

2. Dan Ellsworth

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 11:27am

We have 100 or so Senators, I don’t know how many Representatives, but I sure as heck think they should send some of their kids, as well

Except for the fact that no one can send another person into service in the military- we have a volunteer armed forces.
That said, I 100% support a draft. Everyone should share in the sacrifice of war, and a draft would make policy-makers much more careful about decisions they make to deploy our military.

3. mfranti

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:06pm

“We have 100 or so Senators, I don’t know how many Representatives…”

435 comes to mind.

4. KyleM

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:14pm

There are aproximately 25 million vertrans in the US. There are just over 3 million active duty and reserve personnel.

17.6% of the executive branch (including the cabinet) have served in the military. This is double the national average.

23.7% of our congress has served in the military. Republicans make up 56% of that number, democrats 44%. This is nearly tripple the national average.

They’ve made the sacrifice themselves.

5. annegb

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:24pm

Not good enough, Kyle. My grandson registered for the draft two months ago, on his birthday. If he’s going to fight in Iraq, boy, there better be some relatives of those who made the decision to go into Iraq in the first place fighting alongside him.

6. Researcher

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:51pm

I can’t help it. I have to quote it. It’s worth reading. It’s pertinent to the discussion. Here goes…

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there’s nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour’d rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o’erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O’erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill’d with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call’d fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’

7. KyleM

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:55pm

Your grandson is not going to fight in Iraq. He registered for the draft just like every 18 year old male in this country does. Even politician’s sons.

8. Jota G

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 12:59pm

Both of John McCain’s sons are in the military. One is an enlisted Marine currently stationed in Iraq. The other is at the Naval Academy.

9. nasamomdele

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:08pm

A good warmongering post,

Although I think that one serving in the military deserves the highest praise, I reserve that praise for soldiers rather than politicians. The military used to be a political step toward an election, and that could especially be reflected in the cushy roles some of our public servants played in their times of service. Service in the military should create leadership and that is something I don’t see in our government.

What is different about the princes is that they’ve said things like “I don’t like England that much anyway.” They’re children of a relatively rebellious and noble mother. For that, I think they’re awesome.

As for our military, I love the volunteer military system because it has created devoted and competent soldiers. I think that Vietnam showed 1) how drafted soldiers may not be as effective as volunteer and going back to my first point, 2) how senators’ sons make poor battlefield leaders in many cases. I may be dabbling to much in generalities. My knowledge of these kinds of thing is purely anecdotal.

A draft may be a good deterrent of war. That would be a great thing.

10. annegb

Kyle, good point. But IF he goes, I hope he gets stationed with John McCain’s sons.

You’ll never see a Bush child or a Cheney child over there. I applaud the royal family and have new respect for the British. You can’t deny they sure stick by us.

11. annegb

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:10pm

How many more American young men would be serving in the military if they institute a draft?

I can see it as a deterrent for war, but I’ve wondered about mass depression because of the many people affected by the death, not to mention the injury, of one soldier in war.

12. madhousewife

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:11pm

I also admire Prince Harry for going to war. But I believe the decision was his and not his family’s. Should only pacifists and parents of military personnel be allowed to serve in Congress? Soldiers are adults. It’s condescending to talk about their decision to serve as something their parents have to put them up to.

13. KyleM

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:12pm

If your grandson does go, he can join the Rangers and serve next to my brother.

14. KyleM

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:15pm

“I can see it as a deterrent for war, but I’ve wondered about mass depression because of the many people affected by the death, not to mention the injury, of one soldier in war.”

Often, the deepest scars aren’t seen. God bless the men and women who serve.

15. nasamomdele

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:17pm

More Shakespeare on military service:

WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What’s he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God’s peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call’d the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam’d,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian.’
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.’
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he’ll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

16. nasamomdele

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:20pm

Annegb & Kyle,

I think many of the deeper wounds are meant for the citizens at home to heal with a warm welcome, well-deserved respect, and many thank-yous. God bless them indeed.

17. Devyn S.

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 1:59pm

That Nasamomdele is my favorite Shakespeare ever…. thanks!

I think that given the changes to the military, we likely (and hopefully) won’t see a war like WWII ever again involving mass armies duking it out. Modern war is more about strategy and poking each other from far away or very small limited engagements as we see in Iraq…

18. Dan

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 2:16pm

I’m glad Prince Harry served in Afghanistan. And I’m glad the British press and most of the American press kept silent about it to let him serve. One wonders why Matt Drudge felt the need to break the story out and risk the lives of both the prince and those serving with him…

As to a draft, I too am in favor of a draft for the same reason as the other Dan, that it will make warmongering a harder thing to do than with an all volunteer military.

19. Jacob J

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 3:14pm

I think the idea that Bush’s daughters or Chelsea have some obligation to go to war is absurd. If you want to set up a standard for yourself that you will only vote for someone as commander-in-chief who have themselves served in the military, then fine. But the idea that the daughters should have to serve because their father got a job which often involves sending people to war is just nonsense.

20. Jota G

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 4:00pm

I’m against a mandatory draft because I believe in specialization and trade.

21. annegb

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 4:59pm

No way, Jacob. President Bush had no qualms about sending other peoples children to war. He should have had to consider the possible death of his own children. Maybe he’d have stayed out of Iraq. When he decided to run for president, he decided to hold himself and his family to a higher standard.

Apparently the English royal family had no such caveats to their support of the US.

22. jjohnsen

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 6:04pm

That said, I 100% support a draft. Everyone should share in the sacrifice of war, and a draft would make policy-makers much more careful about decisions they make to deploy our military.

Except everyone doesn’t share in the sacrifice during a draft. There will still be ways to get out of it, and those with money and connections will figure out how to take advantage of it.

23. Dan

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 6:18pm

jjohnsen,

Oh, you mean like Dick Cheney who suddenly got his wife pregnant just nine months before he was going to possibly be drafted…

24. Eric Russell

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 6:36pm

Sorry annegb, forcing people to serve during a non-draft period against their will is simply un-American. If the children of elected officials don’t want to, they shouldn’t be forced to.

But good on Harry for his willingness.

25. Dan

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 8:06pm

Eric

You may be against it, but it isn’t “un-American” to have a draft.

26. Eric Russell

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 8:17pm

Dan, I didn’t say it was un-American to have a draft.

27. queuno

Wed, Mar. 5 @ 11:16pm

So I guess this is the point where I get to be the jerk and say that while I admire and support America’s fighting men and women, there’s NO WAY I would ever advocate to my children that they join the military or marry into it.

(As long as the sacrifice is still a voluntary one, I would not recommend that they serve. But I’d still love and support them if they did, anyway.)

28. KyleM

Thu, Mar. 6 @ 12:43am

No one recommended to my brother that he serve. He has a law degree and is on the bar in multiple states. It’s not like he doesn’t have options.

29. KyleM

Thu, Mar. 6 @ 12:51am

I’m sorry, queno. I shouldn’t internalize comments intededed generally.

30. annegb

Thu, Mar. 6 @ 9:32am

KyleM, have you introduced yourself? My brain is dying as we speak.

http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/11/08/mcq-carlos-tiredmormon-sherpa-jota-queno-naismith-left-field-ben-there-tell-me-about-yourselves.htm

Could you take a minute so we can get to know you?

You know, of course your brother is awesome and the Rangers, wow. Princess Buttgold’s former boyfriend (well, one of the legion)was a Ranger in Iraq, maybe they knew each other. Cody Fish is his name. She dumped him and he felt really bad about it. But then she’s been dumped herself.

I digress. Where was I?

Oh yeah. I’m not talking about ordinary citizens who do heroic things like enlist when they clearly (like your brother) have other options, or even those young boys, like my friend’s son, who are eager to get over there and do battle.

I’m saying that the English royalty has more class than American royalty. Are any Kennedys in Iraq? Maybe they don’t advertise for their and their mates safety, but hell, I’m rather embarrassed by Prince Harry’s eagerness to serve his country when the Brahmins of America are more content to party the night away while their fathers are sending our sons to war.

31. KyleM

Thu, Mar. 6 @ 11:30am

I agree that the names common throughout national politics leave me underwhelmed. I think we just have a difference of opinion on what the nature of the inherent duties of royalty in the UK versus the landed aristocracy of the U.S.