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the process of revision and interpretation is part of revelation That is an important point to remember in light of the frailties of our language and understanding. |
re Joseph wanting others to participate in revelation. This is also in line with what the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, about seeking the best gifts, and wanting everyone to prophesy. In essence, prophecy is revelation. (Prophecy is not necessarily foretelling the future, but rather revealing unknown information.) Within the last few years, Elder Oaks gave a talk in which he mentioned that it is easy to “gin up” revelation. I’ve done that, thinking that I received spiritual promptings, when I probably didn’t. But sometimes, another analysis is that perhaps some that I later discounted as my imagination because they didn’t “pan out” were cases where the error was that I misunderstood the prompting, or acted incorrectly in response to the prompting. It’s easier (for me at least) to dismiss a prompting as one’s imagination, than it is to admit we screwed up. The “unfolding” part is important too, because we often have to get to step A, before the Lord will reveal step B to us. This can be illustrated by Nephi following where the Spirit led him the night he got the plates. The Spirit didn’t tell him ahead of time the exact location where Laban was, but gave him directions as he walked on how to get there. The Spirit most often and most easily reveals things to us using what we already have in our minds. Hence the importance of studying-it-out and daily scripture reading. Hence the importance of following the Spirit to get to point A (physically, mentally, or spiritually), and then once you are at point A, then you can see, or be direted to, point B. |
RE: Sharing revelation- Favorite Scripture- 17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a bision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto gall those who diligently seek him, as well in times of hold as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men. |
This is extremely interesting to me because of one huge, burning question I have always had. Why would God just give me the answer? In my personal experiences, the only true revelation I have received has been when my heart and mind were exhausted and I was ready to know what the Lord wanted done. I have never really felt like I was making a good decision and received a “confirmation”. |
You know one of the clearest revelations I recieved on a personal level came last year. At the time I was trying to make an important, life changing decision, and as I tried to choose what to do I decided to follow the example from the brother of Jared. In effect I took three options to the Lord, said I can live with any of them and had researched them to the best of my ability. As it turned out the one that made the most sense was very difficult but since that time I have not really looked back and said, “this was wrong.” In many ways I feel that I need to do more of the “studying out in (my) mind”, so that I can feel that I and the Lord are on the same page. So if anything RSR has just reinforced that idea. |
Sometimes I think we make our own “revelations” through the use of our agency. We study a matter out, approach the Lord in prayer, and then act on what we feel He would want us to do, trusting Him to bless us in our choice. If we got an absolute confirmation to every question we put before the Lord, we wouldn’t get much exercise in the use of our agency and hence, not much growth or preparation for the big time in the hereafter. I think the prophets and apostles do much the same, doing the best they can with what they know and feel. As I read RSR, I could just see in my mind’s eye a young Joseph as he struggled to do what the Lord asked of him, sometimes without any directions on how to do it. The real testimony for me is that Joseph did it, and kept doing it, even when things didn’t turn out the way he or others expected it to. |
This discussion is very interesting. I’m really not trying to be trite with this comment, but in reading the discussion I couldn’t help but think of Professor Trelawney (the divination professor) in Harry Potter. He had the “gift” and on occasion produced “prophecies” that were accurate, but the reader was left to assume that most of the time she was probably just making it up. You never knew, however, whether Professor Trelawney believed she was making it up the rest of the time. (I have been waiting patiently for an opportunity to legitimately introduce Harry Potter as a demonstrative aid in a bloggernacle discussion. You may now continue with the serious discussion.) |
Jon W (5) and Yet Another John (6), It definitely turns the Sunday School model of revelation on its head.
I had the same impression in my reading; I saw him receiving revelations to do certain things (gather the saints, build a temple, etc) or revelations about the existence of certain things (a new Jerusalem, the endowment, etc) and then having to actually work through a combination of his own impressions (sometimes informed by his surroundings) and the guidance of the Spirit in bringing these things to light. It looks like far from an exact science in many cases.
As usual, I take issue with DKL’s tendency to take his argument all the way to eleven, but there is an important point here, the idea that Joseph Smith was given the authority to make religion, a phrase Bushman uses in the book. |
Well done, Jota G. |
The “making religion” idea is very interesting. No doubt there were distinct moments in Joseph’s life and the process of restoration where the problem was solved through a “simple” prayer- Restoration of the Priesthood being one example. Of course, this was not always the case. Often times, visitations presented the words of the prophets as the ends and Joseph may not have been informed of the means- baptisms for the dead. That makes for interesting speculation, but also lends to a portrayal of an intensely spiritual-by-necessity Joseph Smith. He may not have felt that he had to be close to the Lord to know his will, but that he wanted that in order to help him fill in the blanks. Aside from this portrayal, it explains his “swinging for the fences” very well. His weakness, as mentioned, is very evident in his jumps to create the ends, without realizing the means- the united order comes to mind although it may not be a good example. |