Comments on: The Great Divide http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:50:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: queuno http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78931 queuno Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:28:05 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78931 I was raised "East Coast" by parents who strove to retain their "Utah" roots at every turn. My wife was raised "Utah" by parents of "East Coast" mentality. I chose to flee both and live in North Texas. I think my children are better off for it. I know I am. I was raised “East Coast” by parents who strove to retain their “Utah” roots at every turn. My wife was raised “Utah” by parents of “East Coast” mentality.

I chose to flee both and live in North Texas. I think my children are better off for it. I know I am.

]]> By: danithew http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78894 danithew Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:18:33 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78894 I'm definitely an east coast person ... but having lived in Utah for a period of years (though not living there currently), I see upsides/downsides to both east coast and west coast experiences. The one thing I am not qualified to talk about (yet) is the experience of raising a child in either part of the country. I've become more appreciative of pioneer heritage - realizing that many of my ancestors were among those first settling Utah. So I don't think it's right for me to be entirely critical of Utah culture. Also, some of the things I would have criticized about Utah twenty years ago just aren't the same anymore. One of the blessings about United States is it's geographic sprawl - that we can have such diverse regional cultures encompassed by one country. Having had the experience of living in a very small country (Israel) I think I appreciate that more than I would have otherwise. I’m definitely an east coast person … but having lived in Utah for a period of years (though not living there currently), I see upsides/downsides to both east coast and west coast experiences. The one thing I am not qualified to talk about (yet) is the experience of raising a child in either part of the country.

I’ve become more appreciative of pioneer heritage – realizing that many of my ancestors were among those first settling Utah. So I don’t think it’s right for me to be entirely critical of Utah culture. Also, some of the things I would have criticized about Utah twenty years ago just aren’t the same anymore.

One of the blessings about United States is it’s geographic sprawl – that we can have such diverse regional cultures encompassed by one country. Having had the experience of living in a very small country (Israel) I think I appreciate that more than I would have otherwise.

]]> By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78891 annegb Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:53:47 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78891 And then you have that third world country better known as southern Utah. And then you have that third world country better known as southern Utah.

]]> By: josephine http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78886 josephine Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:52:02 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78886 I have lived in the East all of my life and have no family ties to the west. In the small ward where I grew up it seemed there was a big time prejudice toward "Utah Mormons". As a youth I over heard several conversations from different adults about those ignorant, judgmental, self-righteous, holier-than-thou people from Utah. So it is no surprise that I took these same views (never mind the fact that I didn't even KNOW anyone from Utah). When I finished hs and went onto college (still in the east) I began to cross paths with those "terrible" Utah Mormons, those people who had lived in Utah all of their lives. I was amazed, the more I met and the more I worked with various individuals from different parts of Utah I found them to be some of the nicest, articulate, smart, talented (i swear almost everyone I came in contact with could play some sort of instrument or sing) and TOLERANT (yes, tolerant!) people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Now I live in a branch where there are several homegrown Utahans and I must say the branch would be nothing without their willingness to sacrifice and support. Plus they seem to have a better grasp on exactly how the church (the organizational part) works. I feel like lots of adults have issues and all kinds of philosophical reasons why they chose not to live in Utah. But for whatever reason, Utah produces some top notch kids. Maybe my experience is just an anomaly? It is something that has puzzled me over the years. I have lived in the East all of my life and have no family ties to the west. In the small ward where I grew up it seemed there was a big time prejudice toward “Utah Mormons”. As a youth I over heard several conversations from different adults about those ignorant, judgmental, self-righteous, holier-than-thou people from Utah. So it is no surprise that I took these same views (never mind the fact that I didn’t even KNOW anyone from Utah). When I finished hs and went onto college (still in the east) I began to cross paths with those “terrible” Utah Mormons, those people who had lived in Utah all of their lives. I was amazed, the more I met and the more I worked with various individuals from different parts of Utah I found them to be some of the nicest, articulate, smart, talented (i swear almost everyone I came in contact with could play some sort of instrument or sing) and TOLERANT (yes, tolerant!) people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Now I live in a branch where there are several homegrown Utahans and I must say the branch would be nothing without their willingness to sacrifice and support. Plus they seem to have a better grasp on exactly how the church (the organizational part) works. I feel like lots of adults have issues and all kinds of philosophical reasons why they chose not to live in Utah. But for whatever reason, Utah produces some top notch kids. Maybe my experience is just an anomaly? It is something that has puzzled me over the years.

]]> By: Dalene http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78871 Dalene Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:35:04 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78871 I grew up in the North<i>west</i> but my experience actually follows your East Coast model to the T, so I beg to differ. While I agree that it's easy to confuse the culture with the church in areas with a higher concentration of members I don't think that's at all unique to Mormons. I believe that occurs with any religious group. And I have to admit that even though the experience my kids are having growing up in Provo is completely different from that I had growing up in Western Oregon, living here has been good for my kids so far. Their experience has also been much more diverse than mine was. Go figure. I grew up in the Northwest but my experience actually follows your East Coast model to the T, so I beg to differ. While I agree that it’s easy to confuse the culture with the church in areas with a higher concentration of members I don’t think that’s at all unique to Mormons. I believe that occurs with any religious group. And I have to admit that even though the experience my kids are having growing up in Provo is completely different from that I had growing up in Western Oregon, living here has been good for my kids so far. Their experience has also been much more diverse than mine was. Go figure.

]]> By: KyleM http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78870 KyleM Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:20:07 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78870 Seattle proper is more like the east coast model. The suburbs range from east coast model to west coast model and in between. I grew up on an island near Seattle and found it a perfect mix of the good parts of each model. I now live in one of the suburbs. The experience for the youth in our stake, covering two suburban cities, is closer to eastcoast in my city and closer to west coast in the other. Seattle proper is more like the east coast model. The suburbs range from east coast model to west coast model and in between. I grew up on an island near Seattle and found it a perfect mix of the good parts of each model. I now live in one of the suburbs. The experience for the youth in our stake, covering two suburban cities, is closer to eastcoast in my city and closer to west coast in the other.

]]> By: Dan Ellsworth http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78860 Dan Ellsworth Sat, 08 Mar 2008 05:17:25 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78860 bfwebster, I love the Soquel/Capitola area. I had a good friend living in Soquel for a while, and it was my favorite place to visit. In my college years in Utah, I was always really amazed at how much anger I witnessed towards the Church among so many of the people I saw there. But in Utah, the Church is really the most convenient target of blame for things they don't like about their state, neighborhood, culture, or even parents, because the Church is perceived as being the reason things are the way they uniquely are there. That strikes me as being a really unhealthy arrangement, with the Church being blamed for countless unfortunate incidents and behaviors that, in other areas, could be attributed to a wider variety of causes. bfwebster,

I love the Soquel/Capitola area. I had a good friend living in Soquel for a while, and it was my favorite place to visit.
In my college years in Utah, I was always really amazed at how much anger I witnessed towards the Church among so many of the people I saw there. But in Utah, the Church is really the most convenient target of blame for things they don’t like about their state, neighborhood, culture, or even parents, because the Church is perceived as being the reason things are the way they uniquely are there. That strikes me as being a really unhealthy arrangement, with the Church being blamed for countless unfortunate incidents and behaviors that, in other areas, could be attributed to a wider variety of causes.

]]> By: bfwebster http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78856 bfwebster Sat, 08 Mar 2008 04:36:08 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78856 Oops -- I somehow forget to finish that first paragraph. Here it is again: Dan, those were almost exactly the words out of my wife’s mouth when we made the decision in the fall of 1987 to move from Utah to California. We had been married a little over a year — 2nd marriage for both of us, with (9!) nine (9!) kids between the two of us — when we made the decision to leave Utah (where I had lived for about 2 years while teaching at BYU, and where Sandra had been for about 14 years). I was able to line up work in Santa Cruz, California, and we moved to Soquel -- or, more accurately, to the foothills of the Santa Cruz Mountains, just east of Soquel. The kids absolutely loved the move. Oops — I somehow forget to finish that first paragraph. Here it is again:

Dan, those were almost exactly the words out of my wife’s mouth when we made the decision in the fall of 1987 to move from Utah to California. We had been married a little over a year — 2nd marriage for both of us, with (9!) nine (9!) kids between the two of us — when we made the decision to leave Utah (where I had lived for about 2 years while teaching at BYU, and where Sandra had been for about 14 years). I was able to line up work in Santa Cruz, California, and we moved to Soquel — or, more accurately, to the foothills of the Santa Cruz Mountains, just east of Soquel. The kids absolutely loved the move.

]]> By: bfwebster http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78855 bfwebster Sat, 08 Mar 2008 04:31:59 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78855 <blockquote>#14: There, a teen’s angst and/or rebellion can easily be directed at society in general, whereas in Utah, it feels like there is only one influence (and institution) to rebel against. That strikes me as a bad situation to be in.</blockquote> Dan, those were almost exactly the words out of my wife's mouth when we made the decision in the fall of 1987 to move from Utah to California. We had been married a little over a year -- 2nd marriage for both of us, with (9!) nine (9!) kids between the two of us -- My own impetus was much less profound. We were attending a football game at Timpview High, where Sandra's oldest daughter went to school. While we were sitting in the stands before the game, with people still coming in, four young teenage girls filed past, all looking like young Farrah Fawcett clones (i.e., with the classic FF hairdo and wearing near-similar outfits). I turned to Sandra and said, "We need to move away from here." We've never regretted it. The problem with Utah (IMHO) is not that "Utah Mormons" are somehow different; some of the finest, best members of this Church that I know live in Utah. It's that the culture gets mixed up with the Church and the Gospel, and some folks get a bit wacko. My good friend Bob Trammel -- a former bishop who lives in El Paso -- cribbed a line from "Hello, Dolly" to describe it: "Mormons are like horse manure. Spread them around, and things flourish and grow. Heap them up in one spot, and they stink." ..bruce..

#14: There, a teen’s angst and/or rebellion can easily be directed at society in general, whereas in Utah, it feels like there is only one influence (and institution) to rebel against. That strikes me as a bad situation to be in.

Dan, those were almost exactly the words out of my wife’s mouth when we made the decision in the fall of 1987 to move from Utah to California. We had been married a little over a year — 2nd marriage for both of us, with (9!) nine (9!) kids between the two of us —

My own impetus was much less profound. We were attending a football game at Timpview High, where Sandra’s oldest daughter went to school. While we were sitting in the stands before the game, with people still coming in, four young teenage girls filed past, all looking like young Farrah Fawcett clones (i.e., with the classic FF hairdo and wearing near-similar outfits). I turned to Sandra and said, “We need to move away from here.”

We’ve never regretted it.

The problem with Utah (IMHO) is not that “Utah Mormons” are somehow different; some of the finest, best members of this Church that I know live in Utah. It’s that the culture gets mixed up with the Church and the Gospel, and some folks get a bit wacko. My good friend Bob Trammel — a former bishop who lives in El Paso — cribbed a line from “Hello, Dolly” to describe it: “Mormons are like horse manure. Spread them around, and things flourish and grow. Heap them up in one spot, and they stink.” ..bruce..

]]> By: ESO http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-78850 ESO Sat, 08 Mar 2008 02:40:06 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/07/the-great-divide.htm#comment-78850 Dan Ellsworth--that is a great point--if kids must rebel (and most must, at least a little), better to do it against organized sports or Republicans, rather than their Mia Maid advisor. Dan Ellsworth–that is a great point–if kids must rebel (and most must, at least a little), better to do it against organized sports or Republicans, rather than their Mia Maid advisor.

]]>