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Good points. We often forget that ALL nations are as a drop in the bucket, even the United States of America. |
I always find it interesting how pro-American Mormons often are given our history. Why, for example, do we put up American Flags on Pioneer Day? A holiday that celebrates Mormons fleeing the govt. |
The sins Wright listed are, 1. The government created the AIDS virus and the interesting statement “Bill [Clinton] did us like he did Monica Lewinsky!” You can see why I have a hard time calling Wright’s comments a Jeremiad in the tradition of the other figures mentioned, and I would say the same about the rants of Hagee, Parsley, and a number of other white pastors. |
Dan – Wright also denounced Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Would you say the same about Hagee? His jeremiads (or, Jerry Falwell’s, or any of a number of other such folk) castigates the government for being complicit in, say, gay relationships and abortion. Anyhow, while I think it’s certainly true that the AIDS virus myth is a myth (though I think it’s also useful to place it in the context of the larger worldview of many black activists – one not dissimilar from Mormons in my hometown who believe flouride is a conspiracy), I think his views on the drug issues are more nuanced than you’re presenting them. Anyhow, your final two sentences are what I’m getting at. The things Wright jeremiads about may seem silly, but the subjects should be seen within the context of the genre. Old Testament jeremiads go on about the laws in Leviticus, many of which seem silly to us today; the important things is the framework of God’s relation to the world. Incidentally, much, I think, of Obama’s speech was subtly emphasizing the ultimate incompatibility of religious and political discourse. |
Patriotism is an ugly shouting God that demands allegiance in these parts before all other concerns. “God bless America” What a presumptuous and arrogant phrase. As if we could demand God’s allegiance or as if His allegiance to us were simply a given. |
More depth to the controversy here: http://acropolisreview.com/2008/03/barack-obama-condemns-reverend-jeremiah.html |
#5. Exactly. That’s why I never ask God to bless me or my family or my football team. |
Bill, I think what Seth is meaning is that we’ve corrupted that phrase from its original intent and purpose. Instead of making it a humble plea for God to bless this country of ours, it has transformed into our, sort of, calling card, our identity, our Imagined Community. We’re the most blessed nation on the planet! We are the richest nation on the planet. We are the most powerful nation on the planet. We are the most advanced nation on the planet. (well, maybe the Japanese are more advanced). It’s not as if we really need God to bless us any further, honestly. If we were humble, wouldn’t we sing, at every single baseball game (162 x 15 daily matches) “God Bless Zimbabwe” or “God Bless Iraq.” The point of “God Bless America” is to plead for an outpouring of aid from God to those in need. While this great country of ours is in really, a lot of need spiritually, it seems far more useful (and far more Christian) to pray for God to bless those who really need it. Unless of course the continual use of this phrase is anti-American in nature. Basically those who keep using it are saying America sucks far worse than poor Chad or Ethiopia that we need to call upon God’s blessings as often as we do. Over at Mormon Matters, they showed an interview of one Mormon soldier who has turned against the war. I was struck by the very first thing that the soldier said. He said, “I love my country.” But go over there and look at how he said it. There was such fervor in the word “love.” I was just struck at how devoted he was to that “imagined community” called America. We’ve taken our devotion to America to an extreme level, I think. It has gotten so bad that when someone dares to criticize that “imagined community” the protective hawks dive down to rip that person apart. And the most insidious part is that those protective hawks can criticize the imagined community. A Pat Robertson should be able to say that this great nation of ours deserved 9/11 because of our sins. So should a Jeremiah Wright be able to say that this great nation of ours deserved to be damned for how it has treated her blacks. And their patriotism should not be questioned. For how are we to change what is wrong with our imagined community if we do not allow a critical eye on it? |
Dan, If the government really had created the AIDS virus to afflict the black community, if the government really did give drugs to young black kids, if the government really did create laws in order to target a specific minority group, then it would be okay to say that the nation deserved calamities to come down upon it. The foundation on which Wright draws his conclusion, however, is flawed. The government didn’t do those things. Therefore his conclusion deserves condemnation. His statements reinforce a culture of victimization. This “sells tickets” in his church because it is what his community has been conditioned to hear. The problem for Obama is that if the rest of the country thinks Obama is running for President in order to right the “wrongs” preached by Wright, he will lose. The rest of the country doesn’t believe those wrongs exist. In fact, the rest of the country sees the existence of Barak Obama as evidence that the system isn’t tainted. That is the true danger for Obama. In order to represent the whole country, and win the whole country, he will have to alienate the subset that believes itself to be a victim of the whole. |
But the government really did facilitate the import of an inexpensive form of Cocaine into the USA in the 1980s and this is a fairly well established fact by now. The ex-head of the DEA just blurted out a confession a while back. Not just cocaine though, there is a great book called, “The Politics of Heroin” which talks about the CIA and its involvement in facilitating its import from places like Afghanistan. The AIDS invention thing sounds out in left field, but african-americans should be suspicious of our government after experiencing things like the Tuskegee syphillis studies where black men were treated like lab-rats. The “we brought 9/11 on with our foreign policy” statement really has merit to it as the 9/11 commission has suggested. Our patriotism is misplaced as President Kimball said when he said: “We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel — ships, planes, missiles, fortifications — and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching…” |
Jota, I don’t think Obama will have to alienate that subset in order to win the whole. I think we have to get out of the zero sum politics and realize that we can have a win-win situation and not a win-lose. In order for one to win another doesn’t have to lose. I think that’s one of the points that Obama is trying to make. |
Curtis: The least you could do when making such flame throwing accusations is provide citiations for them. You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your word for it. And, by the way, the thorougly discredited San Jose Mercury News reports don’t count as factual. Good luck. Be sure to wear your tin foil hat while researching the links. The truth is out there. |
Ah, good old Gary Webb, the guy who somehow managed to commit “suicide” by shooting himself in the face twice. Maybe you should read some of Gary’s interviews and decide if he’s really all that discredited. |
I wonder if this can be classified as a Jeremiad as well: http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU Is there any way of distinguishing between a principled Jeremiad and a garden-variety angry rant? |
Oops, on the Gary Webb stuff, I linked you to part II, which doesn’t link back to part I. Here’s the link to part I. |
Pastor Manning seems to skimp on the word of God there, but he’s clearly tapping into some of the same sexual ccncerns that have been paramount to American Protestantism at least since the Victorian era. He does, though, fail to offer anywhere near as much Biblical language or theology as Wright does. For one thing, that speech doesn’t offer a sophisticated understanding of the world constructed of the jeremiad – that of a sinful community coming under God’s judgment. So, no, it strikes me as more a prudish rant than a jeremiad. As to your question – the jeremiad’s a form, dating back to the Bible; one often employed in the United States by prophets calling for social change. The content – those sins denounced and the nature of repentance invoked – are theological questions that I imagine are up for debate. |
Ellsworth, that video is priceless. All I can say is, rev. Manning makes more sense than some of the opinions on this thread. |
matt b (16), In all seriousness, I saw Rev. Manning calling the people to repentance for turning their backs on the Clintons and going after Obama, a “servant of the devil.” But yes, it is missing the element of diving damnation and/or retribution. Actually, that may be there, but I didn’t watch the whole thing so I wouldn’t know. |
Cordeiro, There are a few good books on the subject: http://www.versobooks.com/books/cdef/c-titles/cockburn_alex_whiteout.shtml This statement from a former CIA station chief: “Now, obviously i’m not going to stand in front of you and say that the CIA might be involved in drug trafficking, am I? READ THE BOOK. Read The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia. For 20 years the CIA was helping the Kuomantang to finance itself and then to get rich smuggling heroin. When we took over from the French in 1954 their intelligence service had been financing itself by smuggling the heroin out of Laos. We replaced them – we put Air America, the CIA subsidiary – it would fly in with crates marked humanitarian aid, which were arms, and it would fly back out with heroin. And the first target, market, of this heroin was the U.S. GI’s in Vietnam. If anybody in Nicaragua is smuggling drugs, it’s the contras. Now i’ve been saying that since the state department started waving this red herring around a couple of years ago, and the other day you notice President Reagan said that the Nicaraguans, the Sandinistas, were smuggling drugs, and the DEA said, `it ain’t true, the contras are smuggling drugs’” And then there’s the classic, timeless piece, “The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia” by Alfred McCoy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia You’re right, the truth is out there, it just takes a little searching. |
God Bless America, In the name of Jesus Christ Amen. |
Yo fellas, my comment number 19 has been awaiting moderation all day here. Can you get on the ball? |
Matt B, Here’s a response to the idea that Jeremiah Wright speaks in a prophetic tradition; I just saw it this morning. |
Dan – That response makes a good point – that being that the particularly infamous portions of Wright’s (currently) best known sermon engages in little criticism of his own community, if we assume that Wright defines his own community to the exclusion of the United States as a whole. This, of course, is somewhat defendable, given the sort of conspiratorial, paranoish thinking that Wright there indulges in. On the other hand, of course, there are numerous examples of Biblical prophets condemning the conquerors as well as conquered Israel. Further, Wright’s body of work as a whole includes admonitions of repentance to the black community – something that author does not seem to recognize – as well as denunciations of the broader American nation. It’s this point – the danger of characterizing him as ‘unAmerican’ by single sermon clips to the exclusion of context – that I’m trying to point out. |
Before speaking of Reverend Manning, it’s important to mention another individual first, to put things into the proper perspective: On January 23rd 2008 on the Jeff Rense radio program, a man named Larry Sinclair made stunning claims about Senator Barack Obama. Sinclair claimed that in 1999 he met Barack Obama and Obama purchased and supplied him with cocaine. Sinclair also claims that he performed an oral sex act on the Senator and that the Senator smoked crack cocaine during the evening : “I smoked his pole, he smoked my crack”. Larry Sinclair has thus far failed to produce a single viable piece of evidence, yet is continuing to take advantage of every media outlet and communication medium in an attempt to extort money from Senator Obama. He has staged phoney press conferences, started numerous blogs, contacted all mainstream media outlets with his flimsy and fundamentally unverifiable accusations. Is it any wonder nobody in the mainstream media wants to risk their career and credibility covering this farce? Legally and morally, the burden is on Sinclair to prove his allegations, not on Obama to disprove them. Larry Sinclair knows this, but he is banking (quite literally) on the fact that the court of public opinion operates quite differently than a court of law, and isn’t making any substantial effort to prove his accusations. He knows that it’s hard to prove you DIDN’T do something, and is rallying the ignorant under this pretense to send him contributions (and any other number of other ‘fundraising’ activities of questionable legality). He’s got them so worked up that several of them are posting threats on his blog (larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com) to kill Obama if he gets elected. And as if that weren’t enough, this so-called Reverend (Mr. Manning) seems to worship Larry Sinclair *more* than he would worship God. He supports Sinclair to the hilt (no pun intended), asking the public to pray for Sinclair, even though Sinclair is admittedly and openly homosexual, a drug user, a liar, a thief, and is clearly and unashamedly unrepentant. Manning, like Sinclair, is looking for 15 minutes of fame and a fatter pocketbook, and both are nuttier than a chipmunk’s poop. |