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	<title>Comments on: Behind the scenes at &#8220;The Mormons&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm</link>
	<description>Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People</description>
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		<title>By: tiredmormon</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-83130</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredmormon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-83130</guid>
		<description>Dan E.,

Thanks for answering. For the record I was just curious, I meant no offense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan E.,</p>
<p>Thanks for answering. For the record I was just curious, I meant no offense.</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-83059</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-83059</guid>
		<description>For me, one of the great things of the atonement is that He understands my pain, my frustrations, and my trials, and despite it not making sense, despite it seeming contradictory at times, despite the trials caused by others&#039; mistakes and foibles, that in the end He has suffered for all those things.  He understands, and appreciates, that I try to continue on when it seems pointless, or when it seems like I&#039;m giving up an awful lot just to go on faith ...

It&#039;s been said before -- and I whole-heartedly believe it -- that the Lord desperately wants us to seek and search and dig.  He just doesn&#039;t want us losing perspective over what we find and He doesn&#039;t want us tearing down the Church with our misguided perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, one of the great things of the atonement is that He understands my pain, my frustrations, and my trials, and despite it not making sense, despite it seeming contradictory at times, despite the trials caused by others&#8217; mistakes and foibles, that in the end He has suffered for all those things.  He understands, and appreciates, that I try to continue on when it seems pointless, or when it seems like I&#8217;m giving up an awful lot just to go on faith &#8230;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been said before &#8212; and I whole-heartedly believe it &#8212; that the Lord desperately wants us to seek and search and dig.  He just doesn&#8217;t want us losing perspective over what we find and He doesn&#8217;t want us tearing down the Church with our misguided perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-83044</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-83044</guid>
		<description>There is certainly a lot of variety among the children of men. I have respect for those who come into this world with &quot;baggage&quot;, we all do to some extent, but many seem to carry a disproportional amount and yet have a testimony of the restoration and learn to rely on the Lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is certainly a lot of variety among the children of men. I have respect for those who come into this world with &#8220;baggage&#8221;, we all do to some extent, but many seem to carry a disproportional amount and yet have a testimony of the restoration and learn to rely on the Lord.</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-83030</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-83030</guid>
		<description>One of the three paramount reasons for holding a disciplinary hearing is to protect the good name of the Church.  The disaffected forget that, as an institution, we&#039;re more than willing to just leave them alone, if they&#039;ll do the same.

It seemed that it was a huge deal in 2000.  Now, in 2008, a lot of people haven&#039;t even heard of MT anymore, and I suspect that in a generation, she&#039;ll be little more than a footnote and Bloggernacle darling.  And maybe that&#039;s how it should be.

I was at BYU in the 1990s during the period when English and Anthropology had so many problems and were losing professors (in fact, an extended family member was marginally caught up in the periphery).  And I never could understand how such supremely intelligent and gifted people could have botched their employment like they did.  In both of my academic departments, there was writing and research and classroom conversations that went WAY beyond anything the deposed were saying, but we did it respectfully and our professors made sure that they took care of the basic things first to protect their employment.  

MT would have done great in my department -- in fact, we read literature from artists that was more bold and more shocking than anything she said, and wrote term papers and had classroom discussions that would have made her seem conservative.  She could have pursued 90% of what she wanted to pursue, but she just had to cross a certain line.  It made her famous for a generation, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the three paramount reasons for holding a disciplinary hearing is to protect the good name of the Church.  The disaffected forget that, as an institution, we&#8217;re more than willing to just leave them alone, if they&#8217;ll do the same.</p>
<p>It seemed that it was a huge deal in 2000.  Now, in 2008, a lot of people haven&#8217;t even heard of MT anymore, and I suspect that in a generation, she&#8217;ll be little more than a footnote and Bloggernacle darling.  And maybe that&#8217;s how it should be.</p>
<p>I was at BYU in the 1990s during the period when English and Anthropology had so many problems and were losing professors (in fact, an extended family member was marginally caught up in the periphery).  And I never could understand how such supremely intelligent and gifted people could have botched their employment like they did.  In both of my academic departments, there was writing and research and classroom conversations that went WAY beyond anything the deposed were saying, but we did it respectfully and our professors made sure that they took care of the basic things first to protect their employment.  </p>
<p>MT would have done great in my department &#8212; in fact, we read literature from artists that was more bold and more shocking than anything she said, and wrote term papers and had classroom discussions that would have made her seem conservative.  She could have pursued 90% of what she wanted to pursue, but she just had to cross a certain line.  It made her famous for a generation, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: nasamomdele</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82999</link>
		<dc:creator>nasamomdele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82999</guid>
		<description>It actually sounds like she may have avoided the court for some time- possibly due to her self-identifying as inactive. I see in her testimony the downfall of taking one issue and running with it. She couldn&#039;t and wouldn&#039;t let it go, regardless of what gaps there were in the doctrine she developed- she had to be the voice, the one to preach it. I get the feeling that if she really cared about girls and women in the Church, she wouldn&#039;t have taken it so far and sought some way to use her intellect to support the Church instead of attack. 

ESO, you make a very good point about the single adults. I think the documentary was created for the non-LDS audience, and therefore it might not strike a hot enough chord. If they really dug, they might find that it often strikes one of the hottest chords in the Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It actually sounds like she may have avoided the court for some time- possibly due to her self-identifying as inactive. I see in her testimony the downfall of taking one issue and running with it. She couldn&#8217;t and wouldn&#8217;t let it go, regardless of what gaps there were in the doctrine she developed- she had to be the voice, the one to preach it. I get the feeling that if she really cared about girls and women in the Church, she wouldn&#8217;t have taken it so far and sought some way to use her intellect to support the Church instead of attack. </p>
<p>ESO, you make a very good point about the single adults. I think the documentary was created for the non-LDS audience, and therefore it might not strike a hot enough chord. If they really dug, they might find that it often strikes one of the hottest chords in the Church.</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82974</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82974</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By the time she was actually exed, she didnâ€™t have much attachment or belief in it.&lt;/i&gt;

Except that she hadn&#039;t stopped writing about it or attacking it.  She didn&#039;t get excommunicated just because she was angry.  In fact, the Church is more than willing to let people alone when they are hurt and angry and want to be left alone.  But when you&#039;re still taking positions of advocacy against the Church, no degree of deliberate separation should replace formal discipline.

Any accounts from her are incredibly one-sided, because the Church won&#039;t respond or tell their story.  Take it with a grain of salt.

(As you can tell, I don&#039;t have a lot of respect for St. Margaret.  I&#039;m a closet fascist, I guess.  I do have a family case of an unjust excommunication -- and the First Presidency overturned it.  I have more faith in a stake presidency and a high council than I do in the one-sided testimony of one who admitted she wouldn&#039;t follow the counsel of her leaders.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>By the time she was actually exed, she didnâ€™t have much attachment or belief in it.</i></p>
<p>Except that she hadn&#8217;t stopped writing about it or attacking it.  She didn&#8217;t get excommunicated just because she was angry.  In fact, the Church is more than willing to let people alone when they are hurt and angry and want to be left alone.  But when you&#8217;re still taking positions of advocacy against the Church, no degree of deliberate separation should replace formal discipline.</p>
<p>Any accounts from her are incredibly one-sided, because the Church won&#8217;t respond or tell their story.  Take it with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>(As you can tell, I don&#8217;t have a lot of respect for St. Margaret.  I&#8217;m a closet fascist, I guess.  I do have a family case of an unjust excommunication &#8212; and the First Presidency overturned it.  I have more faith in a stake presidency and a high council than I do in the one-sided testimony of one who admitted she wouldn&#8217;t follow the counsel of her leaders.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Bennion</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82954</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Bennion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82954</guid>
		<description>Yes, my memory is a bit muddled queno #3, but here is what I *was* remembering:
&lt;cite&gt;When it finally happened, it was somewhat out of the blue, because my husband, [Paul], had been excommunicated, and we had gone totally inactive. My four daughters no longer wanted anything to do with the church after Paul was excommunicated... The interesting thing is that when I stopped going, I discovered I was angry. I hadn&#039;t let myself be angry. I was going to be ... this stalwart, nice Mormon woman -- that I&#039;m going to still be part of this community. I stopped going, and I discovered I had a lot of anger. Anger is a sin in Mormonism. [Laughs.] You&#039;re not supposed to be angry... I don&#039;t believe in its claims in the same way I used to. I can certainly say that. I can also say that I&#039;m a person that has a lot of doubts. The intellectual part of me really doesn&#039;t want to be a believer. But I would say that, if I&#039;m completely honest, ... I think I&#039;m a person who believes in the soul and God and believes in spirituality and thinks that that&#039;s a very important part of our humanness. And ... as far as any religion is true, I think that Mormonism has a lot of truth in it. ... There&#039;s a lot I don&#039;t like, but I think that there&#039;s a lot of good there, too.&lt;/cite&gt;
It&#039;s reading stuff like that that caused me to conclude she had &quot;left the Church on her own&quot; &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; she was excommunicated. By the time she was actually exed, she didn&#039;t have much attachment or belief in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, my memory is a bit muddled queno #3, but here is what I *was* remembering:<br />
<cite>When it finally happened, it was somewhat out of the blue, because my husband, [Paul], had been excommunicated, and we had gone totally inactive. My four daughters no longer wanted anything to do with the church after Paul was excommunicated&#8230; The interesting thing is that when I stopped going, I discovered I was angry. I hadn&#8217;t let myself be angry. I was going to be &#8230; this stalwart, nice Mormon woman &#8212; that I&#8217;m going to still be part of this community. I stopped going, and I discovered I had a lot of anger. Anger is a sin in Mormonism. [Laughs.] You&#8217;re not supposed to be angry&#8230; I don&#8217;t believe in its claims in the same way I used to. I can certainly say that. I can also say that I&#8217;m a person that has a lot of doubts. The intellectual part of me really doesn&#8217;t want to be a believer. But I would say that, if I&#8217;m completely honest, &#8230; I think I&#8217;m a person who believes in the soul and God and believes in spirituality and thinks that that&#8217;s a very important part of our humanness. And &#8230; as far as any religion is true, I think that Mormonism has a lot of truth in it. &#8230; There&#8217;s a lot I don&#8217;t like, but I think that there&#8217;s a lot of good there, too.</cite><br />
It&#8217;s reading stuff like that that caused me to conclude she had &#8220;left the Church on her own&#8221; <i>before</i> she was excommunicated. By the time she was actually exed, she didn&#8217;t have much attachment or belief in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ellsworth</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82947</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ellsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82947</guid>
		<description>tiredmormon (5),

You raise a vary good question.  I believe it&#039;s possible for people to experience the power of the Atonement in any number of churches, or outside of church altogether.  I have seen a lot of examples of this.
That said, I think we make some very unique claims about the Atonement and Christ&#039;s role in the Church, and the only possible way I can see to verify those claims is by seeing if the power of God is manifest in Church service that is geared towards bringing people to Christ in the context of the Church.
For example, if the power of God is evident in our missionary work and our temple work, then I think we can say that the Church is the place where God wants those particular people to experience the Atonement, and I stay in the Church because I believe that to be true in my case.  That is not an exclusive claim to Christianity on our part, but I don&#039;t apologize for my conviction that God honors our basic claims as a Church by showing His power in our efforts to bring people into the Church and help them stay engaged here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tiredmormon (5),</p>
<p>You raise a vary good question.  I believe it&#8217;s possible for people to experience the power of the Atonement in any number of churches, or outside of church altogether.  I have seen a lot of examples of this.<br />
That said, I think we make some very unique claims about the Atonement and Christ&#8217;s role in the Church, and the only possible way I can see to verify those claims is by seeing if the power of God is manifest in Church service that is geared towards bringing people to Christ in the context of the Church.<br />
For example, if the power of God is evident in our missionary work and our temple work, then I think we can say that the Church is the place where God wants those particular people to experience the Atonement, and I stay in the Church because I believe that to be true in my case.  That is not an exclusive claim to Christianity on our part, but I don&#8217;t apologize for my conviction that God honors our basic claims as a Church by showing His power in our efforts to bring people into the Church and help them stay engaged here.</p>
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		<title>By: ESO</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82929</link>
		<dc:creator>ESO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82929</guid>
		<description>I can understand the folks at Northern Lights dissappointment in not being included.  FWIW, I did not feel particularly represented by the homeschooling CO family or the family whose mom died in childbirth.  Every documentary is in fact an editorial, and ought not be thought as comprehensive.  

I liked THE MORMONS well enough, but it can&#039;t have been EVERYTHING.  I realize gayness is a hot topic, but it seems there are some others that are, in fact, bigger issues for more people in the Church.  Like being hetero and single--that cuts a lot of people.  My single sister was just telling me yesterday she was not Celestial material--she does not qualify as a single person.  Sure, she was joking about it, but it is a major issue for many many more Mormons than homosexuality (and, of course, it is the issue that includes many gay Mormons--being (forced to be ) single in a family church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand the folks at Northern Lights dissappointment in not being included.  FWIW, I did not feel particularly represented by the homeschooling CO family or the family whose mom died in childbirth.  Every documentary is in fact an editorial, and ought not be thought as comprehensive.  </p>
<p>I liked THE MORMONS well enough, but it can&#8217;t have been EVERYTHING.  I realize gayness is a hot topic, but it seems there are some others that are, in fact, bigger issues for more people in the Church.  Like being hetero and single&#8211;that cuts a lot of people.  My single sister was just telling me yesterday she was not Celestial material&#8211;she does not qualify as a single person.  Sure, she was joking about it, but it is a major issue for many many more Mormons than homosexuality (and, of course, it is the issue that includes many gay Mormons&#8211;being (forced to be ) single in a family church.</p>
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		<title>By: a random John</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/20/behind-the-scenes-at-the-mormons.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82900</link>
		<dc:creator>a random John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 04:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=799#comment-82900</guid>
		<description>Too bad The Mormons wasn&#039;t a full 24 episode season worth of documentary...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad The Mormons wasn&#8217;t a full 24 episode season worth of documentary&#8230;</p>
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