So is there a way to talk about politics on a blog and not become adversarial? What if all the bloggers share something like the same belief system?

Margaret: So is there a way to talk about politics on a blog and not become adversarial?

I think that there is, and that it happens all the time. The problem with discussing things on blogs is that the conversations are open to anyone.

Imagine having an interesting conversation with some people about a variety of political issues in the lounge at a Hotel, and then a drunk (or some other fool) interrupts this otherwise intelligent discussion and injects a bunch of nonsense. In that environment, you can pick up and move if the intruder becomes in intrusive. When some fool on a blog does basically the same thing, you’re pretty much stuck.

I want to apologize to everyone for my rather unbecoming viciousness on that other thread. It really is unbecoming of me or my morals. I’ll try to do better in the future.

Margaret,

I don’t get the part about covering up the bumper sticker. Do the missionaries in your branch ever see the car and know who it belongs to?

I spent more time than I cared to in the MTC and never saw my branch president’s car or had any awareness of what vehicles any of the teachers and staff drove. I do remember that one of my teachers rode a Kona mountain bike over from campus.

Anyhow, I don’t see any reason to cover the bumper sticker. I’m sure you can find a few other political bumper stickers in the parking lot, and having some balance in the lot probably wouldn’t hurt.

What I want to know is if you’ve put up a yard sign.

Dan,

Does your #7 imply a retraction of your apology?

arj,

No. The reason for #7 was to clarify that I didn’t apologize because of DKL’s comment, but because of Margaret’s post. It had nothing to do with DKL’s comment.

My #13 was written before I saw DKL’s #9. I did not mean to imply that I have more education than DKL. I meant to state it outright. :) (Yes, I’m using a smiley face because nobody gets me yet, so I have to give hints.)

The only time I’ve ever put up a political sign, it was out-of-step for the neighborhood and I made sure it was right next to my apartment steps so that nobody else in the building would get the blame. And when someone gave me a ride home from church when I was new in the ward, I merely said I lived in the house with the so-and-so sign. No further direction was needed.

This comment was written after DKL’s #9, before #15 (whoever will be its author), and has nothing to do with either #2 or #4, unless #6 is read in conjunction with #31, in which case #3 should also be factored in.

I’ve spent the better part of the last 2 years involved in the fringes of local politics (I supported a couple of candidates, went to meetings, supported some issues, put signs in my yard, wrote letters, etc.). I realized, though, that you have to find a way to compartmentalize — you can’t let your personal feelings about an issue bleed into Church, for instance (especially when you serve with people who are on the other side). It’s far more important to just “let it go” to help maintain the peace and the Spirit than it is to be “right”.

It can also be troubling when the candidates you supported end up betraying you — and all candidates eventually betray you. You have to learn to move on, and wait for another day.

Queuno said: “You have to learn to move on, and wait for another day.”

Your subtlely coded language is sly indeed. MOVE ON–as in dot org? Hah! That’s a great way to do it. Wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. (Yes, Queuno, a smiley face comes now.)

So, do the McCain supporters cover-up their bumper stickers at the MTC, or is that only required of the Democrats?

I spent

I spend, I mean (but can’t proofread)

Required of Democrats:
Don’t ask; don’t tell
Wear blue ties/suits whenever possible (codespeak–Queuno can explain it. Lately, I’ve become concerned that it’s a tactic from “the other side” used to identify and track us).
Start conversations with, “You might be a great American.”

Republicans do not wear red suits, except for a few brave souls around Christmastime, when they think they can get away with it–and when nobody is really asking about politics anymore. They do, however, wear red ties, and I have definitely noticed. The women wear subtle earrings with ruby centers. That has not escaped me.

I personally will not be caught dead in ruby earrings, and I ask anyone who reads this to make sure that nobody tries to sneak a pair onto my cold, dead ears when I’m in my coffin. A true friend would remove the ruby ones and put in sapphires.

Queuno–if you do get an offer from my beloved institution, I hope you get in touch. I’d love to talk to you about it. And in all honesty, I’d love to live in Texas and attend a Spanish-speaking ward.

We’ve got a lot of Spanish wards, to the great consternation to the more conservative members in our flock. We also have Tongan wards in the area — and it’s great to hear a Tongan men’s choir at stake conference. A bishop friend threatens me that if we move into his stake boundaries, he’ll see to it and my wife and I are called to serve in his stake’s Spanish ward. We have singles wards, also, and they are the truly odd ones. :)

I get a lot of contacts from the department in question at your beloved employer (and my alma mater) — they keep in touch trying to find out when I’m ever going to finish. My brother also keeps asking me — I think he’s hoping for a familiar face to keep him from turning into “one of them”. We’ll see.

Required of Democrats:
Don’t ask; don’t tell
Wear blue ties/suits whenever possible (codespeak–Queuno can explain it. Lately, I’ve become concerned that it’s a tactic from “the other side” used to identify and track us).
Start conversations with, “You might be a great American.”

Woah, sister. I may choose not to degrade myself by aligning with the Forces of Right, but I could never stoop so low as to call myself a D-D-D-De-Dem-. No, can’t do it.

But whatever. I like blue shirts, facial hair, and mixing pop culture references in my over-prepared, free-flowing, EQ “presentations” (they’re not lessons).

(Which probably disqualifies me from working at the Zoo.)

Queuno–couldn’t you come ABD?

They didn’t seem to be open to that. I just need to stop reading blogs and finish the darn thing (in those rare moments when my current employer lets me come up for air, my kids don’t have an activity to drive them to, and when I’m not frittering away my time with my Church callings).

I will probably email you offline, because I have some other questions re your beloved employer I’d like to ask you.

DKL said: “On the morning of the election, he work [sic--probably woke] up and someone had taken it, put it on his porch, and put a dead dear on top of it.”

Priceless. I can’t think of a better tribute to Cheney. Whose “dear” was it? I find that dear, thoughtful memento to be a signal of real support for guns and that 2nd amendment right to hunt. It sounds like you didn’t choose to interpret it that way, though.

Nasamomdele: I was going to offer you an Obama sign as soon as I saw the word “Montana.” But the rest of your sentence let me know you might not use it the way I’d like. Now (removing tongue from cheek), I have said before that if I could do it over again, I’d live elsewhere–probabaly abroad. But I don’t plan on hating my home, so I deal with things. I don’t expect to be buried in Utah, however.

Queuno: Definitely e-mail me. We could even talk. Not just about BYU but about dissertations/books. These blogs do get in the way, don’t they. I’ve spent far too much time on this one. I’m leaving for MTC visits in ten minutes, so what the heck.

I agree with living abroad. I’m always up for going back to Russia. I’d love to live in St. Petersburg.

I may have to take you up on the Obama sign offer. Some of my family would put my name on prayer rolls.

Truth be told, I would rather to retire to a small religious college and coach football- and maybe teach something.

I say let the Obama sticker fly. Say it loud, say it proud.

Is there some difficulty with living in Utah and attending a Spanish-language ward? I would guess that there are of them around Provo than in any county of Texas.

You know, y’all have persuaded me. I did check the MTC parking lot last night, btw. I saw no political stickers at all. It’s a bit early in the season, isn’t it. We visit our missionaries on Thursdays at 9:30 p.m. Bruce and I take separate cars (mine will have a bumper sticker on it within a couple of hours), and I noticed that Bruce hadn’t covered his last night.

No-Man–I thought about what I had said in trying to paint the best face on Provo so we can get Queuno to move here, but I’m afraid you’re right that it’s not just my neighborhood. I think my neighborhood is extreme, but the Republican identity is pervasive.

Well, let’s do it. I think we’ll wait until Obama is the official candidate. I will report back on any stealing of my sign[s] and any wildlife left slaughtered on Obama’s name. I’m not recommending a poll, but what do you think my chances are of keeping the sign up through the elections in November? I hope I’m wrong, but I predict somebody will steal it.

Btw, No-Man, do you have your sign up? Need a bumper sticker?

Just for the record, I am a bitter clinger who wonders what the 58th state is that Obama hasn’t been able to visit yet.

Here is a nice Obama poster that Utah County Republicans wouldn’t think of tearing down. Too bad it’s sold out.

I’d bet that Margaret’s sign will disappear. My bet is also that the theft will be at the hands of someone who isn’t old enough to vote.

C.S. Eric–we initiates are not allowed to talk about the 58th state, but have you ever wanted to HIE TO SOMEWHERE which is not exactly on the map? That’s a subtle clue. We also count Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other territories we plan on annexing in the near future. Again, I can’t go into detail.

Devyn S: Gunn McKay won–several times. (He also lost at least once that I recall.) A really good man. Wayne Owens, a staunch democrat, won a seat in congress, then lost it later. Right after his loss, he was called to be a mission president. (Obviously, he had blocked out the next few years as negotiable time, so the Church used his formidible skills.)

DKL: I’m a lousy speller, actually, though I’ve gotten better over the years. And I think Bertrand Russell makes a good point about snobbishness. I tend to say, “None of us is”–which is correct–rather than “None of us are”–which is incorrect. My father, a linguist, has accused me of being elitist because of that.
So, DKL, what did you become while at BYU, since Republicanism was so monolythic? I’m guessing you were an anarchist.

Ardis,

This comment was written after DKL’s #9, before #15 (whoever will be its author), and has nothing to do with either #2 or #4, unless #6 is read in conjunction with #31, in which case #3 should also be factored in.

It is quite appropriate then that DKL wrote comment #31.

Dan, you should know that I was taunting you and making fun of you in the other thread. I was hoping that you’d respond in kind, and trying to invite that kind of a response (e.g., by saying that I get enough of being told that I’m hateful from my bishop or saying that you haven’t the slightest bit of intelligence, while inviting you to respond with a computer on the internet). Anyway, it was still inappropriate, and I apologize. I still find your arguments to be loopy and your inability to discern relevancy to be stifling to productive conversation, but I’ll readily concede that when it comes to being a complete idiot, you come up short.

This comment was written after Dan’s comment #51.

Is there some difficulty with living in Utah and attending a Spanish-language ward? I would guess that there are more of them around Provo than in any county of Texas.

There are quite a bit of Spanish-speaking units in North Texas, at least one per stake on average. There is an entire Spanish-speaking stake in Houston (and plenty of more wards). You know, Houston, the 4th-largest city in the USA.

(This probably deserves a separate discussion at some point on the efficacy/desirability of language wards. I have mixed feelings. DW, who served a Spanish-speaking mission in the OC, is terribly, terribly conflicted as to their value.)

Margaret needs to then stand up in testimony meeting and bear her testimony of how not stealing signs if Christlike and put them to shame. Or else, post to youtube a clip showing the sign destruction and email her ward.

Margaret,

Your comment #48 both made me laugh and made me jealous. See why some of us bitterly cling to the things we know? There is knowledge out there that we don’t have access to, and that scares us.

Brought back memories of my time in the LTM, in the fall of 1973. Having been an inveterate Nixon hater since at least 1969, and wasted altogether too much time in summer 1973 watching Sam Ervin and Howard Baker and all those liars from the White House in the Watergate hearings, I was definitely in the minority at the LTM.

It all sort of disappeared by the end of the first week–but one day the LTM president made an announcement to all of us at the beginning of our devotional: subdued, and with a catch in his voice, he announced that the Vice President, Spiro Agnew, had resigned.

It was all I could do to keep from jumping up and cheering. But I restrained myself. Which was probably a good thing.

Sorry I’m a little late to the conversation. All this talk about exposing political affiliations at the MTC brings back memories. I went into the MTC right around the time Bill Clinton was inagurated. Needless to say, the legendary hatred from the right wing was already cranked up to a fever pitch. When word got out that I supported him, I was in for a major lambasting. And with Hillary’s erratic behavior as of late, I’m wondering why I ever defended them.

Regarding lawn signs and bumper stickers, I’ve already contributed quite a bit of money to the Obama campaign (the first time in my life that I’ve contributed to a political campaign) and I’m comtemplating putting a bumper sticker on my car, but I don’t quite have enough courage to put up a lawn sign. My justification is that I live on a corner of a cul-de-sac with virtually no traffic, so all a lawn sign would do is expose my political beliefs to my neighbors (who as far as I can tell lean pretty far right) and after my MTC experience, I’m just not ready to go through that again. And it isn’t just me anymore. My wife and kids would be subjected to the abuse as well. So in spite of what official church pronouncements say, I just don’t feel free to be myself.

As much as I like being a slight nonconformist at Church (facial hair, blue shirt, anti-Romney) … I do think it’s a bit over-the-top when we turn our Church lessons into political statements. (I’ve both heard Obama praise and McCain pandering over the last month in GD and EQ lessons.)

If we want to support a candidate at Church, let it be silently, with a bumper sticker. Church should be a refuge from overt politicking in the pews.

If you want to face political pressure over bumper stickers, I invite you all to try working at City Hall under one political party and putting the other guy’s sticker on your car.

Though I’m pleased to report that the mayor’s lovely (and VERY shiny) black car doesn’t sport any stickers at all, every person who does have a sticker has one with the (Democrat) Mayor’s name, one with an incumbent (Democrat) City Council member’s name, one with the incumbent (Democrat) Governor’s name, and/or one with Obama’s name on it. One guy has all four. After a month I feel guilty even owning Republican/Libertarian merchandise, let alone displaying it publicly.

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