that’s how you are?

you come out here, probably during sunstone weekend, and don’t stop by?

Um yeah, because a population of 2 million + people is one homogenous culture (snickers).

The great and spacious house …

There are some Yankee fans in Utah. I saw one last time I was there. Should have taken a picture to prove it.

As to the good:
1) Don’t count on the friends with good values. Sure, a better chance of friends who belong to the church, but not neccessarily extremely better behavior
2) True
3) I don’t know that they are any cleaner than other similar cities. SLC is just newer than East Coast cities and seems cleaner. But I won’t quibble to much on this
4) Completely Agree

As to the bad:
1) Not sure why you think you would have less of a chance of having great friends. Is there some other reason why?
2) Works - not so negative - lots of LDS women work, cause the salaries are so low.
Name - different sure - maybe a negative - but It wouldn’t be that bad. No more negative than it is where you are now, amoung the same type of people. Either way, who cares.

3) SLC is not nearly a majority mormon city. Also there is a tremendous amount of diversity. Unless you mean large amounts of blacks, or asians. There are lots of hispanics. But in SLC there was a huge diversity of cultures, Mexican, Guatamelan, Peruvian, Brazilian, Korean, Chinese, etc. There is a large greek orthodox culture. And among mormons there is a diverse mix of personalities and preferences. I would say in many ways that SLC (not utah necessarily) is more diverse than the many cities in Boston.

4) In case you haven’t noticed - Americans have a thriving culture of consumerism - not just mollys. To that extent sure, it is consumerist. I don’t think your reflection on size and price is necessarily accurate. A few possible exceptions. In Las Vegas people became very nosy about size and prices during the boom, as they wanted to compare prices and take advantage. Now that it has bust - not talked about much. Same in Phoenix. Maybe the same in Utah?
5) The Republican Party is too dominant - Maybe. But that is what we need, people moving to places to increase diversity - show the mormons that you can be a good lds democrat. Also SLC - not so much.
6) Not enough Red Sox fans Wouldn’t know - but isn’t that what cable is for?
7) Probably

1)

Jay S -

Thanks for the comments -
on the good:
#1 - I know that in my Utah High School there were a lot of good LDS kids to have as friends, whereas, sex and booze are fairly ubiquitous across the high schools in Mass.
#3 - SLC is cleaner than any city in the East even if you discount the “newness”. People in the East seem to litter more or there are just more people so the percent of litterers is higher - same result though

on the bad:

#1 We tend to be very liberal in our views on the Church and Gospel which are not always appreciated in our more cosmopolitan ward here in Boston.
#2 Fair point - I would agree that I don’t care, but I know that we often get those questions about why we don’t have the same name by well meaning people in Utah.
#3 Agree that there is some diversity in SLC, but outside of that diversity is virtually zero. Of course, there is no way SLC is as diverse as Boston (note Boston is one city in Mass ).
#4 Agreed that it is pervasive in the US, but, honestly, it is not that prevalent in the Northeast - people here spend their money on schooling and not buying bigger things for the most part in contrast to what I see in Utah (and CA)
#5 “But that is what we need, people moving to places to increase diversity - show the mormons that you can be a good lds democrat.” No thanks on this one - I have seen my parents be the lone LDS democrat voice for years - does not look like fun.
#6 Yes, if we had cable…

Good point on self selection - I guess that is why I self-selected myself out of Utah. Perhaps someday I will self select back in…

Tim - great comments although your good #1 and #2 could be on the living away list too… I also like your living away reasons.

I agree on almost all accounts, except for the BoSox issue. I would throw in some irksome things:

1) traffic is infuriating (My wife and I took our yearly L.A. pilgrimage last week- traffic was tolerable in comparison)
2) air quality is poor and no one cares
3) Too many fast food joints/restaurants
4) Too many big truck owners inspired by bad country music
5) EFY, women’s conference (can’t find ice cream anywhere),

I love:

1) Salt Lake City
2) The influx of non-LDS
3) The mountains year-round (Canyons season passes for students=$400, Snowbird in the summer Bed & Breakfast style $50)
4) Mass Transit
5) Amazing recreation everywhere if you can get out of your house
6) A pro soccer team
7) Payson’s Onion days, not to mention Llama days, countless arts festivals all over, bear lake berry festival, etc. Sooo much to do.

People try to rip you off everywhere.
I do think that many Utah Mormons tend to be quite gullible.

Amira - hmmm… don’t know anyone in the avenues, but perhaps that University influence helps there. Good luck in Asia - certainly can’t find Asia in Utah except for a few Asian restaurants.

Nasamomdele - interesting, the traffic in Utah is much better than Boston. Certainly agree on air quality and the too many chains issue - I am amazed at the number of chains there - Don’t see many mom-n-pop restaurants. I personally am partial to Pleasant Grove’s Strawberry Days - I do love each town has their little celebration.

ed42 - well if you are to get ripped off, which can happen anywhere, then in Utah, you have a high % chance that you will be ripped off by a Mormon - so what? In Mass, I have a high % chance of getting ripped off by a Catholic - so what?

Are you my sister in disguise? She lives in Boston and has most the same cons as you about Utah- well- except she didn’t keep her maiden name.

I went to High School in Utah County (Orem) and then moved to Las Vegas for 11 years. I was never going to live in Utah again. People who moved to Las Vegas from Utah were universally ‘too good’ for the rest of us and couldn’t stop talking about Mormon Mecca and how they would move back the moment they were financially able. Then my husband got laid off and wouldn’t you know the best offer he had was in Utah. I’ve ended up eating many of my words. We’ve moved to Davis county and love it. The people have been very friendly and nice and even know their non-member neighbors and embrace them as friends rather then as ‘potential converts’. There are other people who aren’t republican or BYU fans- which I was shocked to find. We’ve been pleasantly surprised how happy we are here. Although we specifically bought in a ‘middle income’ neighborhood in an ‘average’ part of the city in a less ‘popular’ city- and I think that helped. Also we specifically chose to live on the West side of the freeway to avoid some of the attitudes of ‘better then thou’.

I wonder if people in Utah County talk about house size in the context of how much was paid for the house not because of consumerism but because of thrift, i.e. they like talking about how great of a bargain they got — how little they paid for such a large amount.

re # 17, are you sure about that? SLC provides for recycling. I guess small Utah towns don’t and so you say that Utahns don’t recycle?

Here is one thing that makes me nuts: Utahns don’t recycle. Why????

what? we have curbside recycling in slc. we even have a third container for garden waste to be composted at the dump.

but you said utahns. i suppose in the smaller, more rural communities, curbside recycling doesn’t exist.

John F - That is the nice way to look at it, but I have never heard anyone talk about the bargain they got on their house… London does not recycle very well? Wow - I also found that Harvard does not recycle paper or bottles at all - who knew.

Sherpa - I think it extends beyond Utah County to include all of the State except for a small piece of SLC so that covers probably 75% of the state. But what do I expect from a bitter Yankees fan

When we lived in UT we attended a foreign language ward non-native speakers (the ward was delighted to take us in)…that might help with complaints 1,3,4, and 5…

Try Washington or Oregon if you want people with good values (plenty of Mormons and other Christians though there are plenty of evangelical, born-agains to give you a hard time for being part of a “cult”), a 40 hour workweek (some people in Seattle think 35 is even better especially on sunny days), clean cities and gorgeous mountains! There are lots of non-Republicans but also plenty of lumberjacks who want to clear-cut the forests so there’s also plenty of diversity and in-fighting (fun, fun)!

I’ve made friends in New England but they’re harder to come by (the culture is just a tad different). It cracks me up that my current ward passes through about 8 towns where my mother and sister lived 3 miles apart in Portland, OR and there were 3 wards between them! My friend’s parents lived about a mile away and were in a different ward, too.

I don’t know if the Mariners can compete with the Sox… And their fans aren’t half as rabid (you know, in a good way)!

Au contraire…you only need the desire to speak a foreign language. They’ll love you for trying. Besides, we had a few couples that attended solely to learn the language. They were great. (And if all else fails, these people live in the United States…most of them can communicate with English-only speakers.)

It seems simple. Move to Salt Lake and get the best of both worlds. There isn’t a Mormon majority in the city, and it’s as diverse as Utah can get. So you get to enjoy the mountains, but also get a variety of cultures.

We wish there weren’t so many people here already who wish they were somewhere else. May all our wishes soon be granted.

No offense Dan, but if you’re happy elsewhere, you might as well stay, right?

Devyn,

If you were to go to Utah, you could observe first-hand the hilarity of the Third Congressional District races every few years.

http://origin.sltrib.com/ci_10207723

Re: 38

I share the same wish from my east coast ward inhabited by Utah ex-pats who constantly bemoan the east coast and pine for Utah. I’ll gladly exchange these Utah whiners/cranks for your east coast whiners/cranks.

#33 Sherpa you mean there are people outside of the Wasatch Front in Utah? Really, though, Vernal, Moab and Price are 3 exceptions to the rest of the towns outside the Wasatch Front in my experience. Fascinating information about the difference in your peers there vs those along the Front - that mirrors my experience growing up in Utah County as well. And to your point “Really, the place is far from perfect, but its great some people don’t like the state because it keeps it from being overcrowded and losing some of the things that makes it great.” Yep - good reason for people like me to stay out. Why would a Yankees fan be bitter? Just look at the last few years results - Sox 2 World Series, Yankees - spend a lot of money for nada…. But you are correct that Sox fans do have a chip on their shoulders regarding the Yankees - comes from 80+ years of not winning a Series…

#34 - M - could be a good way to both avoid a Utah ward and learn a language - hmmm, something to keep in mind - thanks

#35 TOTLN - hmm. Third person who lives in Davis County with a similar positive experience - must be something to that.

I was at the grocery store today, and I was reminded of one of the significant perks of Utah: the ability to buy a brick of Tillamook cheddar cheese. we don’t have Tillamook in Virginia, and we don’t have an answer to it either.
Utah is also navigable, which I cannot say for much of the East coast, especially New England. However, when you inevitably get lost in New England, you get lost amid much better architecture.

1. In the “think not when you gather to Zion” vein I’ll share what happened when DH interviewed around for a positions in Utah. He got offered 2 jobs and we went to the temple to mull things over. We came home to find our son, his cousin, and 7 of the cousin’s deacons quorum in custody for shoplifting. Scared us. Scarred us. Whatever. Icing on the confirmation we had come to in the CR. We’re still in the midwest, even though we moved. This particular son was chaff in the social wind throughout his teens; luckily he got some good RM roommates at that “anybody can get in” summer term at BYU and followed them around long enough to get a real testimony and get launched on a mission and become solid himself. That said our kids who wanted to found plenty of righteous friends among the large Lutheran and even larger Catholic contingents here as well as find a few true friends in our ward. Dating years were rough though.

2. 40 hour work week here too

3. I-15 is UG Ugly.

4. I prefer eastern hardwood forests and green - lots of green. I train for marathons in deep shade. We ran St George and went to church in Hurricane the week before. Too many High Priests. Like Tim, out here we know we’re needed in the ward,stake and at the temple. We have had more responsibility here than we would have gotten there.

On the other hand, there’s a thread over on fMh about zucchini. When I visit SLC I meet my sister for lunch at a little family run grill east of the Midvale post office and we get fried zucchini and Utah fry sauce. Mmmm.

I got introduced to fried zucchini in California, where it became a ritual for me to go and get fried zucchini and a burger at Carl’s Jr. every Saturday morning for breakfast. They have a Carl’s Jr. in Provo, so I was able to continue my Saturday morning vice there as well. Unfortunately, out here in the East, everyone insists on serving breakfast foods for breakfast.

Anonymous (50),
Yes, for the most part, I-15 is an unfortunate view of bad architecture, pole signs, and strip malls. The epicenter of ugly is State St. in Orem- it saps your will to live. On the plus side, most visitors I have talked to are so amazed at the mountains that they don’t notice much else.

Even though I live in Nashville, when I go to church I rarely hear a southern accent. Most of the ward is from Utah! Based on that, I’m losing my prejudice against “Utah Mormons” (I developed weird prejudices growing up in Arizona). I love being a Mormon in the South - you’re a rarity, but people don’t think you’re weird for being religious. Most people here attend church on Sunday.

But I gotta say - hell is a ward comprised of only Yankees and Red Sux fans. 80% of them are just frontrunner types who wear the latest trend. Where’s the brave soul who wears a Royals cap?

(I gave this rant in the late 90s to all the yahoos wearing Chief Wahoo. If you haven’t suffered through a team’s bad times, you can’t jump on the bandwagon when they win. If you can see the bandwagon, it’s too late to join.)

Devyn-the grill is right on the east side of State St due east, maybe 1/2 block south (not as far as the light at the underpass) of the Midvale Post Office. It might be called the “B&D”…maybe. Everything I have ever had there is great. I never thought of the letters on the mountain. I was just shuddering when I thought “ugly.” Remember, I went to Utah to be endowed, and years later to take kids to BYU, the MTC, etc. It’s never been “home,” even though my parents live there now and we have gone 5+ times in each of the past several years. Seven of our 8 grandchildren were born there and that sucks us in.

I love being IN the rockies, but the view usually doesn’t do it for me since I usually visit when it’s dry in July or August. This year one son married in Feb and the mountains looked spectacular. When I compare dry Utah with the lushness of Palmyra, Kirtland, Kansas City and Nauvoo my heart goes out to that 1850’s sister who said she walked every step of the way to Utah and she would happily walk every step of the way back.

I like the thicker air at lower altitudes. I like sunrises and sunsets seen seen through the aura of humidity.

But most important, I’m with queuno on this. There is a mindset found in larger percentages in Utah and displaced Utahns that is at odds with the gospel of Jesus Christ. This mindset includes a fixation with outward apearances and some mote beam sickness. Certainly there are plenty these vices to be had everywhere, but Utah Mormons seem to have their own pecular flavor of it.

i woodnt liv in Utha for nothin. to meny sufistacatd peepl espeshaly the wuman. theys is snubs. i trid to dat em and they sed no. i whent ther aftr the laady myshinary brot me in to the church wer i live. she wuz nis and stuf to me be for i joynd the lsd church and she wuz cind cuz my ohn muther wuz fked up. i no i am not suposd to sey the f word cuz the laady myshinary sed JESUS didnt lik it and i wood go to hell so i spel the werd rong so i wunt go to hell. i dont whant to go ther cuz my muther is ther with the fkin devel. im sory i sed it agin but thats how i feel cuz she usd to beet me an say i wuz stoopid in the hed. not the laady myshinary but m fkin muther and the devel. but wer i live u can do wat u whant. u can shit on the street if u whant an luts uv peepl do and shoot shit in to ther bawdys. whut a trip. but utha is no good for me cuz uv the peepl ther cuz they think difrent then me. but at leest im still a MORMON. my bishup is teechin me stuf. hes nice and cind lik the mormun laady myshinary wuz. he sed to go on the INTERNET and do GOOGLE for MORMON. thats how i fowd ur plass. im lernin how to POST bi myself and lerin to spel but the spel chekr is fkd up to. i cant reed the wurds wen the wurds ar spelld rit all the tim so i spel my wey but sumtims i stil lik the spel chekr wey betr. but the lsd church is lik a spel chekr. it ohnly whants u to do things ther wey and sumtims peepl cant undr stand wut that meens lik i cant. they cant undrstand the langwag if u no wut i meen. i can ohnly undrstand my ohn langwag or the wey i think. i think JESUS undrstands me betr then any 1. but utha peelpl dont cuz a lut uv peepl in utha ar MORMONS and a lut uv them think ohnly 1 wey.

nasamomdele,

#40,

Yes, I am happy elsewhere.

Do people really work 40 hour weeks? I have never worked a 40 hour week, I don’t recall my dad ever working 40 hour weeks. Most of my friends don’t work 40 hour weeks. Sure there is the occasional exception (such as my pharmacist friend, but even he has overtime). The policemen and firefighters don’t work 40 hours - cause they get “mandatoried”. I don’t want to divert the topic unnecessarily, but this doesn’t seem to be a big priority. The concern for me is that someone works more than 40 hours for not much pay. I know family is important, as are church responsibilities, and so the flexibility to accomodate these duties are crucial, but so is work satisfaction. I enjoy what I do, and so I don’t want to punch a clock.

You work until the work is done, and make sure you meet your family and other responsibilities. so the ideal job, to me, is one that allows you to take off early for baseball games, and a week to cover girls camp. If you have to work 50 hours the other times - no big deal.

While I understand the intent behind it - this comment struck me as especially ironic. “There is a mindset found in larger percentages in Utah and displaced Utahns that is at odds with the gospel of Jesus Christ. This mindset includes a fixation with outward appearances and some mote beam sickness.” Pot - Kettle, Yeah?

#38, Ardis, I’m with you.

You oughta be a fly on the wall when I say, “My great-grandmother was a handcart pioneer, and I’m STILL voting for Obama.”

by the way, anne, I was talking to a close friend over the weekend, who happens to be a strong conservative, and a bishop, and he said he will be voting for the Democratic party this November. He said he was tired of there being no accountability with Republicans these past twelve years.

Dan - ever the good Democrat… Interestingly, I am beginning to find myself in the opposite camp - Obama scares me enough to not vote for him - I was all for Hilary - but this is a discussion for another thread…

I guess I just don’t understand why you would want to have a “40 hour week”. I can understand wanting balance, but I don’t get the 8:30 to 5 job ideal. I understand the reason why some jobs have scheduled shifts, but I would rather work a job that lets me take off work when I want, and work when I can.

As far as the shopping goes - I think self selection has a lot to do with it. Also ages. When I was younger, my wife and I shopped alot. It was a cheap way to get out and feel like grown ups. We didn’t buy much. When we interned in DC we hit the historical sites, but as we didn’t live in the district, evening entertainment was often hitting the Ikea or the mall. I never really cared for the mall, and despise it now - but times change. For a lot of people growing up in smaller towns, with limited shopping options, travel involves shopping. You grow up with a general store and a few boutiques, when you go to LA you hit the mall or the shops. You see this when people go abroad. Going to switzerland - get a pocket knife, or a watch. When I went to NYC a few years ago, we wandered around Chinatown and enjoyed the atmosphere, food and yes, the shops.

Jay - I would want a 40 hour week with vacation time as I currently work 60 or so and when you add in 2 hours or more a day of commuting, there is not much family time left during the week.

Margaret - Sounds like a great neighborhood in Provo - crow au gratin - sounds interesting. would it work for Magpies since those seem to be the dominant bird in Utah County…

I love my job. My husband loves his job. But in all seriousness, if I had a choice of living anywhere in the U.S., I’d live in the Boston area (so I could be by DKL, of course). I love its history, its buildings, its trees, just the aura of the place. I suspect that my international adventures aren’t finished yet, however. I predict I’ll get some time in Cuba. Seriously. I’ve long felt I’d go there. No idea when.

Wat hapind to mi letr to MARGARET YOUNG. I POST 2 hr an now itz gon. whi iz it gon. Mi fren at the cherch BROTHER T wo halps mi sez that sumtims peeples ar afrad uv me cuz im difrent. Not al MORMONS is nis sed BROTHER T. Nwo im soo sad. I no u hat me MARGARET YOUNG. But im stil sad evin tho JESUS luvs me. an mi BISHOP an BROTHER T an the lady mishonery woo brut me in to the cherch. I misss her an she stil rits to me. But i cant liv wit her cuz she sed her huzbind wudint lik it so I undrstan. Mabe MARGARET YOUNG is mereed 2. But she shud tel me.