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Certainly we are not going to war over Georgia–why would we? We have no major strategic interests in that area. (The EU does, but that is their problem.) However, Bush’s rhetoric does serve a purpose–it helps justify our expansion into the former Warsaw Pact, where we do have a strategic interest. Did you notice that Poland has announced that they will be hosting our missile shield? I suspect we may see similar deals with other countries along Russia’s western border. (Maybe Ukraine? They have to be nervous about the whole Georgia thing.) This is all just Great Power politics. [And frankly, I think it may be a good thing to have Russia re-emerge as a Great Power--a stable and powerful Russian Empire could serve as a useful counterbalance to the emerging Chinese powerhouse in Asia. Of course, it sucks for the little states on Russia's borders, which will be re-absorbed as Russian satellites--but that isn't our problem.] |
It seems that all Russia is guilty of is a double-standard, as is the U.S., to a minor degree (there is a motivational disconnect, to be sure): Russia didn’t support freedom for Kosovo, but is more than willing to move in with guns blazing on behalf of bordering separatist states (who were fired on by Georgia first, I might add, though Russia didn’t make too many demands for cease-fire). Where the U.S. has failed is in playing the role of charitable, uber popular captain of the varsity football team befriending the little nerd in school. Now the nerd has mouthed off and picked a fight with the on the football captain’s behalf. Come to find out, the captain doesn’t have it in him to defend the little punk. Although Doug is rigth, the U.S. may soon find a lot of forgiveness in the world for Iraq/Afghanistan and make quite a few new friends. |
My solution: re-arm Japan Interesting idea. I haven’t read anything on the subject. Or are you being sarcastic? |
I’m being sarcastic. Global superpower-politics tend to take on a kind of theatre-of-the-absurd aspect when it comes to matching rhetoric to action where there is a lot at stake. It exposes a great deal of hypocrisy on all sides. The joke about re-arming Japan plays on the fact that historically the Japanese had been very aggressive and successful defeating the Russians from the East until the US entered the picture and defanged them in WWII (with the notable exception of the US and Japan’s attempt to prop up white governments after the Communist revolution). Truth is: Historically, over the past 2 centuries, few countries have been less successful at defending themselves from attack than Russia — it survived intact largely due to the efforts of its allies. |
I don’t understand what you expect from “peace-loving, Patriotic Americans.” Are they supposed to express their outrage by demanding an attack on Russia? a boycott of Russian goods? aid shipments to Georgia? What response would be consistent with their professed philosophy? |
#4,
And winter, and disregard for death tolls, and vodka. |
Interesting post. I do not think the US will do anything here, but would likely act if Poland were attacked given the NATO membership. I heard an interview on NPR with some leader from Estonia and he said that they are not worried as NATO will protect them. I wonder if NATO really would - it is not like the US can spare any more troops at this point… |
Seriously, DKL, what do you think Bush should do? Here is one of the more interesting takes on the Russia/Georgia brouhaha. AB |
Aaron, the article you link to provides a shrewd analysis that dovetails nicely with my own thinking. You’ll notice that my post doesn’t mention any of the factors that he identifies as irrelevant, and I bring up the key question that he identifies: “Why are the critics of the American invasion of Iraq so willing to give a free pass to the Russians in Georgia?” Here’s the analysis that I’ll add to the one you mention: The West has three primary (and related) goals with regard to resolving this situation:
The solution is easy. It just takes a lot of balls: Bush should get the Georgian government to invite US intervention (this should be easy), get as many NATO countries on board as possible (and get the rest to keep quiet), and issue the following ultimatum to Putin: All Russian troops must leave Georgia (as defined by internationally recognized boundaries) before a certain deadline. If that deadline passes, NATO will begin bombing Russian troop positions in Georgia with planes based on US soil. This puts Putin in a no win situation. And it’s what Reagan would do. BrianJ, that’s a duplicitous question. Peace-loving, Patriotic Americans only ask, “What should we do now?” when America’s enemies go to war. Whenever the US or its allies go to war, their course is predictable and certain. For example, never once did I hear anyone ask “What do we do now?” before they began fulminating against Israel when it exercised its sovereign right to hold Lebanon accountable for providing shelter and assistance to forces who were repeatedly attacking Israel. Besides, since when do peace-loving, Jew-hating, Patriotic Americans come to me for their battle plans? |
Russia isn’t going to be a new, stable Russian Empire in the foreseeable future. Russia is experiencing demographic implosion and it isn’t going to turn itself around and become a rising power. We don’t need to arm Japan to put pressure on Russia. There’s already a rising power that will be putting an almost unstoppable degree of pressure on Russia: China. (That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t arm Japan as part of the general balance of power in east Asia; it just means that they and Russia are much more likely to be allies balancing China’s rise than to replay their historic imperial rivalries.) This little Georgia/Russia War should make us think very seriously about NATO expansion. The basis of the NATO umbrella is that we and the other NATO members are pledged to go to war if any one member country is invaded. As of 2004, NATO produced a “partnership action plan” with Georgia as a precursor to eventual membership — so, we’ve clearly been talking about extending that umbrella their way. I don’t think people have been making as big a deal about that as it should be. If Georgia were already a member of NATO and if the US president and secretary of state did nothing more in its defense than the pathetic, childish, empty scolding that we’ve seen this week, then NATO could clearly be declared dead and meaningless. I.e., the fundamental promise of mutual defense would be shown to be hollow. So, before we expand NATO any further, we definitely need to answer the question: “Are we prepared to goto war with Russia (or anyone else) to defend Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Moldova and Bosnia?” If we aren’t, then we definitely shouldn’t promise that we are prepared and then reneg. |
Ah DKL’s wet dream, war with a superpower. Forget these tiny, insignificant two-bit dictators in the Middle East. Let’s use our mighty weaponry on real enemies. Let’s destroy and kill. Nice wet dream DKL. |
Let me ask, which of you guys commenting here would like to see your city going up in nuclear flames? Who here wants to see Moscow and St. Petersburg go up in nuclear flames? Who here is ready to drink acid rain? If you are, please gear up and go kill Russians. |
Note, specifically how sudden the hysterical talk from conservatives has shifted. For the last few years, all we heard from these fools (like Krauthammer, Kristol, Kagan, and the rest) is how Islamofascism is the “threat of our time.” Suddenly it has not only been forgotten, but these idiots now recommend actions against the Russians that will assuredly INCREASE the power and influence of Islamofascism. What is wrong with you conservatives? Why have you let your reasons go the way of the dodo bird? When will you realize that your narrative is fully discredited and you need to go back to the drawing board? I’m guessing never, and we’ll have to deal with your stupidity for the foreseeable future. How utterly sad. |
Dan speaks for the liberals… So much for constructive commenting. |
nasamomdele, I speak for myself and not for anyone else. I think you guys are nuts for your constant warmongering. |
DKL—duplicitous or not (and I think not), you didn’t answer the question. “Besides, since when do peace-loving, Jew-hating, Patriotic Americans come to me for their battle plans?” Now I’m really confused; has this happened? |
Dan’s a liberal? |
no, Dan is a moderate. |
I think a very big question to ask is whether or not America can reject the new order of things and go back to bygone days of near-isolation. Wouldn’t it be morally right to “cleanse the inner vessel” first and direct our political effort toward stabilizing America? Might as well let the almighty EU police Europe and Eastern Europe for a while. Let’s get out of debt, baby! |
What would be morally right is to not invade other nations and then turn around and criticize another state for invading a nation they consider a threat. That is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is, if I recall correctly from the scriptures, one of the things that really irked the Savior. |
dan, |
arj, Where hypocrisy hurts you is in your efforts to get your “enemies” to back down without violence. When they see your actions are in line with what you say, your words have more authority and weight. When they see that you yourself disregard your own principles, they will say, “surely I shall not listen to them, nor heed them, but go on and do whatever I wish.” |
arj, Let me show you an example of this utter hypocrisy on display just today. From none other than Condoleezza “birth pangs” Rice. She says the following about the Russians:
So Ms. Rice just said that “one tool” in one’s arsenal not to be used in the 21st century is “its military power.” That’s not the way to deal in the 21st century. Huh… In the 21st century, who has used its military power “tool” the most? Why, that would be the United States of America. Does Ms. Rice even realize how stupid she looks when she says these kinds of idiotic things? She endorsed Israel’s use of the military power “tool” in Lebanon. She presided over the invasion of Iraq. Afghanistan. Gone are the days when America’s word can be trusted. |
Dan, I only halfway agree with you, mostly because your anti-America agenda is such a turn off. And the reason I halfway agree is that the U.S. has a decent track record in such similar circumstances of going through the UN and at least trying for multi-lateral support. Although there is American hypocrisy, it is not to the degree you try to put across. DKL’s point is made evident, though.
Because there’s a Republican in the White House and possibly another on the way. |
nasamomdele, Being critical of Bush is being anti-American? Why do you say that? Are you saying we cannot hold our leaders’ feet to the fire? That we must bow to their commands? Hell no! I am NOT anti-American. I am anti-Bush. I have wanted him impeached since 2002. He has violated the constitution and is a warmonger, a war criminal, and treasonous. Saying all that about Bush does not make me anti-American. Saying something critical about Condoleezza Rice is not being anti-American. It is saying that I want her out of office. Be gone vile woman! Maybe you are a military man, nasamomdele, and you are used to a culture of following orders and “staying in line.” I am not. If I don’t like something, I am going to speak out about it. Because I LOVE my country that much! As to the differences between Russia and the United States in terms of invading other countries, you have to remember that Russia is not held to the same standard as America. We SET the example for the rest of the world. The rest of the world holds us on a higher plane because we’ve generally acted on a higher plane. We are more restricted in our actions because we are looked to as the standard of how each other country in the world should act. Let me put it this way, the Pope or the Prophet are held to much higher standards than the rest of us because we look to them (and other similar types—like the Dalai Lama) as an example of how we should act. They are scrutinized at a greater level. Truly America cannot unilaterally act around the world with impunity. It would destroy who we are. This is why George Bush did the dog and pony show at the UN and coerced his “coalition of the billing,” so it would look like an international action because he knew that going at it absolutely alone would destroy us. I’ll give him that, that he at least was able to coerce some countries into action. Russia is not held to that standard because they’ve never accepted that standard. However, if America were to break from its standards, countries like Russia would use that as excuse well enough to act on their own. This is why it is so imperative that we don’t go around in preventive warfare! This is where people like Bush and his supporters failed, badly, and they must be held accountable! Saying anything like this does not make one anti-American, at least in the reality based community. Maybe in Bizzarro world it is different. |
Dan is a liberal. In every mind but his own, apparently. You should own the title Dan, quit being ashamed and hiding from it. It’s you, go with it. |
MCQ, My views on the war in Iraq are not conservative, yes. Strongly so. But I really am a moderate. But hey, if it makes you sleep better at night thinking I’m a liberal, then more power to you. |
Dan, You’re anti-Bush for sure, but you’re anti-Republican as well, and you often rant about the deficiencies of America in relation to those other two antis (i.e. who is in office), though many times you’re just anti-America. I’m sure you haven’t always been anti-America, and if the right guy is in office and he makes some sweeping changes, you would put on a cowboy hat and an american flag long-sleeved button-down. I think that there’s a lot of deficiencies in American Society, but I see the same, if not worse deficiencies around the world, anywhere. You speak far too often of America’s supreme moral deficiencies, and I’m not willing to jump on that wagon. I think you are right on about the moral standard America holds around the world, and I think you’re right that Bush & co. have diminished that standard, but I don’t think it has been very high for a long time now. Russia/USSR had always validated our moral high ground and now they do so again. It’s a farce, really. Why not hold them to the same standard? They’re people on Earth just like the U.S.. That is the great hypocrisy: giving a free pass for killing. War is war, people are people. Only disagreeing with American aggression to the extent you do and not Russian aggression because we’re supposed to be morally superior is an idea that doesn’t hold moral water. It’s hypocrisy in the face of dying people on the Earth. It’s easy to say, and it’s a politically valid idea, but then politics and morality don’t mix well. |
nasamomdele, The reason I am hard on America is because I live in America. If I lived in Russia, I would speak harsher words on Russia if they were to do things I did not like. My voice is more influential (albeit very small) here in America towards America. What Russian is going to care what I, as an American, will say? If I were Russian and I were to speak out against Russia from Russia, then my voice would be more influential (albeit again very small). In the particular case here, vis a vis Georgia, Georgia was stupid enough to pick a fight with Russia, and Russia’s response has been to humiliate them. As I, really, have no bone to pick in this matter, I really don’t care if Russia humiliates Georgia for picking a fight with them. Georgia was stupid enough to start it. Why are we backing them? Is that the kind of ally we want? |
You’re right about the current situation, but Georgia has sought out the U.S. as an ally, not so much the other way around. The U.S. probably ought to back a nation that asks us to. I think the response thus far has been proportional to U.S. interest in the area- humanitarian aid and diplomacy, i.e. big words. |
nasamomdele, I disagree with you about our response. It hasn’t been tepid. It makes the situation far worse. Bush is sacrificing the long-term gains of better relations with Russia for the short term gains of getting them out of Georgia. Let me ask you something, when it comes to our relationship with Russia, what have we given them in return for us moving into their sphere of influence? What trade offs have we given them? Anything? They objected to us recognizing Kosovar independence, and we didn’t care. They objected to us putting a missile defense shield in the Czech Republic (under the guise that it is to ward off Iranian missiles—HA!). What have we given the Russians that the Russians have wanted in return for all of this? What are we giving the Russians as a way to mollify them for us backing and strengthening Georgia? Nothing. Absolutely nothing at all. And you wonder why the Russians are furious with us. |
That’s true. Their “Sphere of influence” has been encroached as self-proclaimed defenders of the Slavs. But Ukraine and Georgia WANT in to NATO. And Bush may be wise in taking them in rather than approaching Russia for better relations. Russia is a demographic deadweight and ideologically pretty different from the U.S. |
Ukrainians don’t “want” in NATO. Many of them do, but not all. Georgia definitely does, but even that is in question as to how badly they want in NATO, because by picking a fight with Russia, they effectively put a nail in that coffin. As to the Ukrainians, there is a strong desire among many to not join NATO. The question then becomes, just how much is America pushing them to join, as opposed to them making that decision on their own. And, no, for long term strategic decisions, making friends with Russia is of far greater importance than having the Ukraine or Georgia join NATO. Russia is stagnant demographically, but that doesn’t mean they are in decline. Furthermore, Russia still holds thousands of nuclear weapons. It is worth much of our effort to keep them on our side. Ideologically, I have no idea what you are talking about. How are they different from the US? Do they not believe in a capitalist system right now? Do they not hold elections? Why yes they do. Just about as fair as they are in Georgia, in fact. Do they have nationalists like America does? Of course they do. Do they have liberals like America does? No. Russia’s “liberals” are socialist and communist. America’s are not. Are they Christian? Yes they are. Frankly, I don’t see much difference. Do they use their military against their enemies? You bet they do. Do we? You bet we do. Still no major ideological difference. |
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/why_we_need_to/ That’s a good piece showing how we need to be less confrontational with the Russians. We won’t of course. |
Actually, that isn’t what Reagan would do. He opted for a Cold War (or chose to continue the one he inherited)instead of full armed conflict. This was good of him, and it would be a better option in the Georgia problem to full war with Russia. |
I was encouraged when George W. Bush, during his 2000 campaign, called for a more “humble” foreign policy. I was sick to death of that motherly scold Albright, who would chide everyone but never back things up with any action. Now, I am sorry to say, Bush’s team is doing exactly the same thing. I much prefer the Teddy Roosevelt “speak softly but carry a big stick” style of foreign policy. Whatever happened to that? If we are not prepared to do something about it, we should not “condemn” or disapprove of it. If we’re not prepared to do anything, we should just shut up. This is why people think Americans are arrogant, because we permit ourselves to pass judgment on the actions of the rest of the world, but it’s just empty finger-pointing. Scolding and chiding and lecturing and hectoring. (News for you Bush-hating partisans, America’s arrogance in this regard dates at least as far back as Jimmy Carter, and is bi-partisan). This rightly drives the rest of the world batty, with the predictable result that these denunciations are ignored. DKL, I think there is another problem here; Russian aggression is only half of it. The other half is, why is Russia surrounded by weak countries? The problem here, not confined to former Soviet satellites, is the devolution (we might say decay) of the Westphalian concept of statehood and sovereignty. What *is* the role of statehood today? For too many of them, they are either a problem child (Burma, Sudan, North Korea as the ultimate black sheep), or “developmentally delayed” recipients of pity (most of Africa, Haiti, etc.). In the old days, such states would not survive long; they would be gobbled up by Britain, Germany, Japan, or France. I blame Woodrow Wilson’s woolly and disastrously vague notions of “self determination” which have become, in practice, old-fashioned tribalism in a new-fangled postmodern suit. What I mean in this case is the Georgians, being a distinct ethnicity from Russians, desired their own country. The South Ossetians, being a distinct ethnicity from Georgians, themselves desire their own separate country from Georgia. There are probably North South Ossetians who, once South Ossetia is sovereign, who will also, no doubt, want their own separate country. And so on, ad nauseum. Georgia would probably pass, but barely, the Westphalian criteria for statehood (which is earned, not bestowed like we do nowadays with diplomatic recognition). South Ossetia, like Kosovo or East Timor, certainly would not. To say nothing of Palestine. None of this is to condone what the Russians are doing, which is not out of any anti-Wilsonian principle; it is naked aggression in the service of advancing its own interests. It should be opposed with quiet action. There are many ways we can make things unpleasant for the Russians, but this bloviating with empty condemnation is not one of them. To address this larger problem, the world needs to revert to the Westphalian notion that statehood is earned, not bestowed. Deliver the mail, defend your borders, feed your people, avoid genocide, get the trains running, and then you get sovereignty. Fail on any of those basics, and you ought to be up for grabs by whatever expansionist power is nearby, because if you cannot provide these necessities, your sovereignty is forfeit in practice anyway. We spend so much energy propping up these so-called “failed states”. I say they are not really states at all. If the US were actually an empire as so many allege, we would in fact be doing this. I have no more appetite for doing this than any other American does. But this seems to me to be just what the Russians, and the Chinese, are doing in their immediate geographic vicinity, along the important trade routes to their necessary raw materials, as well as in the resource-rich countries they are getting them from. And because *we* do not have an interest in empire, we cannot imagine that Russia, or China, would. Instead, we think they are just problem children who are being mean and misbehaving. When in fact Russia did not invade just out of pique. Examining the map will tell you most of what you need to know of Russia’s reasons. There are many effective counters to that move, that could deny Russia what they are seeking in Georgia, and not all of them are in Georgia. Which leads us to my second observation: so many lamented the unipolar world of the USA as the world’s lone superpower. What we are seeing could be the first birth pangs of a new multi-polar order. There are many who damned the US’s unipolar power who will now most ardently wish for its return. Multi-polarity means war, conflict, and chaos, because the powers are all jockeying for position, especially at the borders of their spheres of influence. Welcome back to the great game! It seems that no one on Bush’s foreign policy team remembers how it was played. I think Obama’s team, however, is even worse, and Biden is no help at all. That lot seem to think if we all hold hands and give warm speeches, the world will love us again. The Russians are playing chess. The Bush team is playing checkers. But Obama seems to be playing Candyland. |
Jeff,
Why just to Jimmy Carter. Why not to the man who you admire, and who’s slogan you prefer? Teddy Roosevelt. You think his interventions were appreciated around the world? Do you think the Philipinos appreciated his intervention in their nation? Sorry to say, but the problem lies in “speaking softly and carrying a big stick.” What president since then has NOT used that slogan for himself? I can’t think of a single one (except maybe some in the 1920s—I just can’t recall them much).
This is a fairly common, and natural, occurrence that happens with larger states. The smaller states surrounding the larger states tend to not be up to par with the larger states. The same thing occurs with America’s neighbors. Our Monroe Doctrine has made a mess of our “backyard.” Just look at Central American states. Just look at Cuba. In International Political Theory, this is a well known occurrence that larger states push their neighbors around. You don’t see this in Europe because European countries are fairly equal in size (for the most part), but just look at Poland, the perennial little guy constantly beaten up by the greater powers surrounding him. Even now, Poland is being used by the United States and Russia in a game of chess. Poor Poland.
I’m in favor of the devolution of the Westphalian system. I don’t think it works very well, frankly. I don’t know what might work better, admittedly, but I’m up for a good old fashioned revolution to find out.
You mean in the days before the Westphalian system or during the Westphalian system? Because in the days before the Westphalian system, there was no European empire that could gobble up failed states. Furthermore, why would they want to?
You should blame all calls to “freedom.” This general and very vague call tends to have repercussions that you may not like, including the wearing down of the corrupt states where you make this call.
But don’t you see, Jeff, earlier you decried the “arrogance” of current American thought, but now YOU are making the criteria for how other states should be recognized. Who make you king?
IT is a beautiful sight to behold. Finally someone will come out to keep America in check. This is good for America.
Are you saying America will soon invade Cuba and get it over with?
Why do you say this? Offer your evidence please.
Do you even listen to what Obama says? Or do you just listen to what Republicans want you to think Obama says?
This is utterly silly and a terrible way to end your piece, Jeff. The Russians are indeed playing chess. As are the Iranians. And Bush is indeed playing checkers. But there is no basis for you to claim that Obama is playing Candyland. It is an infantile swipe with no bearing in reality. Please do better. |
This is utterly silly and a terrible way to end your piece, Jeff. The Russians are indeed playing chess. As are the Iranians. And Bush is indeed playing checkers. But there is no basis for you to claim that Obama is playing Candyland. It is an infantile swipe with no bearing in reality. Please do better. But it is a funny and witty line. If Jeff had made this comment about a republican, you would have smiled. But because he made it about St. Barack, you’re up in arms. |
yes, queuno, at this moment in time, I have a very strong disgust for the Republican party. They have lost their way and they ought to be ashamed. |
Dan: #37: Sorry to have gotten your goat. No, not advocating invading Cuba. But I am observing that invading Cuba would probably have caused less pain and suffering than 60 years worth of an ineffectual, internationally unsupported, embargo. I don’t think failed states are always surrounded by strong states; though relatively speaking, that will often be so. There are no expansionist strong states on the African continent, yet most of the countries are basket cases. I am aware that many Presidents like Roosevelt’s motto. But they seldom govern by it. I am not making criteria by which other states should stand or fall. I am making criteria by which states should be supported and/or lectured to through our foreign policy. And receive diplomatic recognition from us. It should not be, first and foremost, because they are a potential ally, but because they have demonstrated a capacity for governance. Just like before you get your driver’s license, you have to pass a driving test. It is not arrogant–you pass the test (i.e., survive), and you can drive (i.e. get sovereignty). We should support states that are capable of exercising de facto sovereignty. And we should only lecture countries if we are willing to do something about it. Otherwise, we should leave them alone and respect their sovereignty and self-determination. My point in condemning self-determination is that it is too often conflated with “freedom”. Wilson surely believed him, and I admire his idealism. What we have learned in the intervening century, is that in practice, it means freedom for the ethnic majority and oppression for everyone else. The devolution continues with the natural endpoint being anarchy and unsteady squabbling statelets. There are ways to nurture freedom without giving every ethnic minority with a grievance their own country. Self-determination, redefined this way, could be called autonomy or some sort of federated system. My comment about Obama was a bit gratuitous, which I threw in, unsupported, in my despair. I will briefly try to elaborate. My problem is the transnational ideal of international institutions having the legitimacy and the will to defend basic principles of human rights in the proper proportion is dead. To anyone who thinks the UN can protect your rights under the UN Charter, I have three words for you: Srebrenica, Rwanda, and Darfur. In the real world, as opposed to in Candyland, if you want help after an earthquake in Pakistan, or a tidal wave in Indonesia, you had better hope there is a US aircraft carrier group nearby. They’ll get the job done, and the UN will show up just in time to take the credit. I do not take pleasure in saying that, but it is the truth. I wish the UN were up to the job, but it is not. A multipolar world is great if restricting the United States’ ability to act as the guarantor of trade and international security is your primary goal. If we want to reduce human suffering, lower trade and travel barriers, and bring 500 million people out of poverty (as we have since the fall of the iron curtain), then it is surely bad. I am not saying that I know when and how American power should best be applied. But Obama doesn’t want to apply it at all. He’d rather bask in the accolades than articulate any framework himself. His advisor Samantha Power understands well the problem from hell, but has no ideas for how to actually stop it. It’s just more jaw jaw. I do not believe countries cause the problems they do because we aren’t nice enough to them, or because we haven’t talked enough to them, or because we haven’t had the right color of President until the Obama Administration came along. It’s Candyland. Can I play with the green piece? |
Jeff, I simply don’t get it. I just don’t. You state:
Are you being serious at all in your points here, or purposefully ignorant of Obama’s policy points? Don’t you even remember the controversy of him saying that he would send Americans into Pakistan to get Bin Laden? Remember how John “To the Gates of Hell” McCain criticized Obama for saying Obama would send troops into Pakistan? (Even though that is exactly what Bush has been doing) What is your evidence that Obama “doesn’t want to apply [American power] at all?” If you cannot back up that evidence, don’t make the claim. Can you not see that Obama’s foreign policy is exponentially smarter and wiser than that of John McCain? Have we been for far too long under a dark, ignorant cloud under Bush’s foreign policy to remember wise foreign policy? I think that we’ve been under the “us vs. them” “with us or against us” crap for too long that too many can’t remember reasoned, nuanced foreign policy. It is really sad to see, Jeff. |