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To me, these survey results seem very unsurprising. Most American’s believe in a God, and most of those believe in an omnipotent God. Saying that God could save the life of a terminal patient, then, is really just a definitional inevitability. It’s not the same as saying that He will, though. |
Fair point on the definitional inevitability vs reality, but I am still surprised that so many people think it is possible given the lack of evidence thereof. |
Devyn,
I think that if he intervenes too frequently, those who didn’t get intervention will be mad at him for forgetting them, or considering them unworthy of intervention. I think it also shows us that while this life is vitally important in the eternal sense, death is not really that big of a deal. |
To say God could do something is not to say he frequently does do something. Ask them if God could move a mountain. Then ask how many mountains have recently been moved. |
Dan - Then the question becomes, why does He bother to intervene at all then in the limited cases where He does? It seems rather inconsistent and haphazard to me. Clark - agree on could vs does, but if God has never moved a mountain, could He really do it? Seems to me that maybe that perhaps there are limitations to His power in reality although not theoretically… Of course, I am a mere mortal with limited brain power, but this is my limited interpretation. |
Devyn, I agree that there is a bit of frustration that God doesn’t intervene more often. I think a lot of it may have to do with how much faith we have in him, and how much our world is more or less fixated on other idols. I think that when we turn all our attention to God, as we should—but not as we are actually doing—we may find that he will be more in our lives than we currently see him. |
Devyn, here’s a possible answer. Now, I want you to know that your question about God’s power being limited could very well have truth. He created this world and us with pre-existing materials, and therefore He likely chooses to work within many of the natural parameters of those materials. Indeed, some rules He may not or cannot break (such as justice). On the general scale (not instance by instance): The list is not all-inclusive, but it provides some ideas, at least for thought. |
Devyn, why assume God has never moved a mountain. And if we can do it (look at Kennecot) why couldn’t God? |
Whoops. Wasn’t ready to hit enter. Anyway my real post is that it’s a pretty bad question since it conflates can and does. But then most of the questions of this sort are bad. |
M, I like the comments about faith. I don’t necessarily agree with any of the instances you put forth, although there may be something there. Perhaps God is simply bound (if we can say something like that) by the fact that only 57% of people exhibit Faith in miracles. Generally, I think we can see more miracles in our lives if we would look for them, like Dan says, maybe with “spiritual eyes”. As Alma would say, His hand may just be very obvious, but we have “scienced” away the recognition of that hand. People may not talk much about miracles, as they probably shouldn’t, but I also think that there is a certain portion of society that is rather anti-faith, making one hesitant to approach the subject. There is definite risk in the pursuit of intellectual and philosophical knowledge at the expense of the inward/spiritual. |
nasamomdele, That may be another option (that the miraculous is bound by those who have faith in it). I think maybe a conglomeration of these ideas could give a fuller picture. I think part of your last point is stated in my clumsy fourth generalization. Perhaps we aren’t looking correctly at the miraculous. I am one who doesn’t believe that a miracle has to be inexplicable by science to be a miracle. |
I think that if he intervenes too frequently, those who didn’t get intervention will be mad at him for forgetting them, or considering them unworthy of intervention Indeed. that the miraculous is bound by those who have faith in it with the implication that if the miraculous does not occur, your faith is failed? While Lewis says “God is not a tame Lion” and my wife says “God is not Santa Claus” I always thought of it as “God is not a black box” (which, it turns out, only engineers and physicists and my daughter understood immediately). I think much of how we interact with miracles is based upon our failure to understand that God is possessed of free will. |
really it is not easy to answer your questions.they are my question too.if god can do this people,then why not he does it every time?your article made me thoughtful.waiting for your next post like this. just want to say ,thank you. |
M,
I agree 100%. |
Devyn, Your colleagues at Harvard Medical School have completed a study that shows prayer is not effective at healing people. But to be convincing to the crowd here at MM, we demand data on LDS Priesthood blessings. http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html |
Stephen, “the implication that if the miraculous does not occur, your faith is failed?” Of course not. I add nasamomdele’s point to my prior suggestions: that there are times where the miracle may be dependent on our having faith. Not if there is faith, there is guaranteed a miracle. |
Boyd K Packer once said, “Do not suppose that God causes those things that for his own purposes he permits.” I believe in a lot more ‘hands off’ God than most people. I think when god intervenes to save a life it is because someone else’s use of their own agency caused a consequense (someone’s death) that for his own purposes, God is not ready to permit. |
#7 M - I like your list - it is certainly some food for thought. I tend to be on the side that God is bound by things well beyond our ability to comprehend. Clark - hopefully it wouldn’t take God 50 years to move a mountain. Stephen M - I like the idea that God has free will. Sometimes I forget that in my quest to conform my picture of him into something that conforms to my own free will. #13 Lotus - thanks - Not sure there are answers, but I really enjoy getting others perspectives. |
M & Nasamomdele - I think that all miracles should be explained by science - perhaps we don’t have that knowledge of the scientific principles yet, but they should all be explainable in my mind #15 Tagore - yes that was an interesting study - basically proves that if you randomly try to force God into an experiment, He may choose not to participate… Ron - I agree with your hands off God, although He does intervene in instances that are self-imposed - many of htese examples in The Book of Mormon. |
I think the idea of a “hands-off” God is a convenient creation. I know of too many miraculous recoveries that co-occurred with much fasting and prayer and a priesthood blessing to arbitrarily give credit to the medical profession. “Science” doesn’t actually fix anything, remember. “Science” describes what’s going on. And the canard about “how many mountains has God moved assumes that our reasons for moving a mountain are the same as God’s”. No one knows why God moves mountains … or might intervene to extend a life. But it’s just too convenient to place it on the alter of technology and luck. And aren’t we forgetting that death is a necessary step, and for the righteous, a welcome step? Maybe sometimes we are disappointed that a life isn’t saved, yet for the deceased, it’s a happy moment on the other side. |