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Greek temple thing? Because of course Greek architecture is nowhere to be found in America. I think our capitol building, White House, and well, everything in DC was inspired by the Pigmies of Africa…oh wait. Can all of you see how silly Republicans have become? McCain talks in front of a “Greek temple thing” http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/08/columns.php Bush’s 2004 convention had “Greek temple things.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Bushs_2004_temple.html You realize, DKL, how much this insults your own intelligence? It shows you have no realization of the nation you live in. Or it shows that you go along with your fellow Republicans in your character attack, baseless, pointless effort to demean and trivialize your opponent instead of going after what their ideas are, or more importantly proclaiming your own “good” ideas. Clearly you feel you cannot win by standing on your own principles. |
Dan, looks like I touched a nerve. I’m glad you’re psyched about Obama’s Greek temple thing — somebody should be. Even so, I think that your inability to differentiate a painted plywood, made-to-order Greek temple thing from a permanent building or a column-themed convention backdrop is rather daft. As is your conclusion that I cannot mock Obama’s vanity and still object to him on principle. I shudder to think of how low I’d have to descend to say something about Obama that you deem intelligent! |
DKL, listen to Dan, because he knows what he is talking about. His own crappy blog NEVER, EVER demeans or trivializes his opponents, and it NEVER, EVER insults his own intelligence, since he has so very little of it to start with. Holy hell, Dan. Are you always such a ray of sunshine? DKL gives a review of the convention that is 85% positive and you put on the brass knuckles. I honestly think you need to get some professional help. |
I have a feeling that if Obama could have done without Biden or the Clintons, he would have. |
DKL, nice review. I have to say that I’m surprised you were so fair—not to bash you, just that I know you’re no Dem. I thought Hillary’s speech was superb; exactly what Obama needed. As for Michelle’s speech, I took it differently than you (but then again, I am the intended audience). She spoke about her blue-collar dad, health struggles, kids having a better life than their parents; in other words, things that Democrats care about. She didn’t have to spell it out. |
I think I would prefer the convention much more without the pundits, but they always suck me in! Really, I thought Michelle’s speech was great and then the pundits told me it didn’t do what it was supposed to do, etc., and made me feel bad for her. I also thought HRC’s speech was very nice (and I am no HRC fan), and then the pundit’s talked about all the things she could have done differently. I am just glad Sacrament Meeting doesn’t come with pundits, because I already have a hard enough time enjoying it. Never having been to a convention, I wonder about all the dead time and the Dem after Dem who come out and speak when no one REALLY wants to hear them. I think someone needs to revamp the format and make it flow better and more concise. I think it is VERY SILLY that Mitt is in town. What a waste. It’s like the protesters at Pageant. Anyway, looking forward to the big speech tomorrow and will be interested in the RNC show next week. (Biden doesn’t do anything for me, either. Such loose lips) |
DKL,
Actually no you didn’t. But it still boggles my mind. We are a Greek-inspired nation. It is all over our architecture, including our government institutions the nation over. What the hell are you guys doing demeaning the common, especially when your own man did so four years ago? It’s just simply stupid and it is unbelievable that our nation is run by such stupid people. It just boggles my mind. Maybe I should wholly lower my expectations and expect the worst of people. Then maybe I will be impressed when they act just above their worst. |
Again with the stupid. Dan, do you really think you are any smarter than anybody else around here? You’ve made 1343 comments on this site, and most of them provide persuasive evidence that you are not. |
I don’t say I’m smarter than anyone else. I have no doubt that DKL is a very smart man and smarter than me. But he keeps stooping down to the stupid, and I just don’t get it. Like I said. It is my mistake. I expect too high a standard for smart people. I expect them to not stoop down to the stupid. I should not have that expectation. My expectation should be that everybody acts stupid, so that when they don’t act stupid, I’m impressed. But that is really sad. |
I think they should turn these into awards shows. “Justin Timberlake presents The Democratic National Convention” (I think he was funny at the ESPYs). What’s Billy Crystal doing? Steve Martin? Whoopie? Even David Letterman would be funny. “Mitt (Romney), meet Mike (Huckabee).” |
The argument about the Greek temple imagery is a sublimation of precisely what is wrong with political discourse in America. Republican makes some lame, but mildly insulting comment. Democrat immediately becomes offended and initiates an entire exchange pointing out the obvious: that Republicans are dangerously insane and should be locked up for safety’s sake. Nice job, guys! Looking forward to next week’s installment. |
Dan: But it still boggles my mind. We are a Greek-inspired nation. It is all over our architecture, including our government institutions the nation over. You’re always at your most ridiculous when you employ equivalency arguments. It’s not that equivalence arguments are bad, per se. It’s that you always try to liken things that are palpably and transparently dissimilar. You’re always at your second most ridiculous when you latch onto and regurgitate the first thing you find on the internet that defends your candidate. Dan: What the hell are you guys doing demeaning the common, especially when your own man did so four years ago? Bush spoke before a backdrop decorated with columns. I was there. It didn’t look the slightest thing like a Greek temple thing. Barack Obama has ordered a made-to-order Greek temple thing. And lets take a look at what I say:
First of all, it really does remind me of Stonehenge set in Spinal Tap. George Bush’s didn’t. Press conferences on the step of the Capitol (columns and all) don’t either. Keep in mind that different things remind different people of the Stonehenge set in Spinal Tap. Oboma’s Greek temple thing is one of those things that reminds me of it. Second, I really do feel like voters will think it’s weird. This is pretty tame stuff. From your reaction, you’d think I said something like, “Obama is a real moron for building the Greek temple thing.” |
ECS: Republican makes some lame, but mildly insulting comment. Are you talking about you or me? |
I’m not the one who brought up the Greek temples. |
Great. I’m glad we cleared that one up. Next question: ECS: Republicans are dangerously insane and should be locked up for safety’s sake. Again, are you talking about you or me? |
I’m talking about the hyperbole that Democrats use tirelessly. But if the shoe fits… |
Awesome. Once again, I’m glad we cleared that up: Next question: ECS: …imagery is a sublimation of precisely… Again: Are you talking about you or me? |
Not sure how far we can take the Ted Kennedy/Alexander Hamilton comparison. Scandal? Check. Illicit sex? Check. Deaths under shady circumstances? Check. Great deal of influence? Check. Bastards? Check. Unsteady and erratic? Check. Courageous in the face of physical danger? Check. Winebibbers? You betcha. But brilliant intellect with ideas that will last generations and help bind and preserve the Republic? Uh, no. Not even close. I’m not too bothered by the Greek temple thing, or even the quasi-Presidential seal. I may even vote for the guy. But honestly, it’s the zeal of some of his supporters that creeps me out the most, and all I can say about that music video you link to is, “eeew”. Some of this stuff reminds me of what Mussolini used to do. It’s unseemly to see in proletarian America, and I’m afraid, it validates some of what Jonah Goldberg tried to say in his book Liberal Fascists that many on the left (though not exclusively on the left) are very prone to hero worship of their political leaders. I am sick to death of all this rhapsodizing about Reagan, but at least the Republicans wait until their leaders are dead (to say nothing of actually having been elected) before they deify them! |
Jeff, Please? You think Democrats are worshipping their political leaders? Have you even read what some of your conservative bloggers write about Bush? Are you kidding me? Once again, what Republicans do is thrust upon the Democrats falsely and then Republicans accuse Democrats of doing what they themselves do. DKL,
That’s because you choose to let it remind you of the ridiculous (btw, the scene in Spinal Tap is probably the funniest in the entire movie), because you prefer to demean and belittle your opponent rather than go after his points, or, more importantly, stand on your own points. And this is the derangement of the Republican brand. It has always been a sickly brand that cannot stand on its own qualities. It can only stand when all opponents are utterly smeared and reviled. It is repulsive which is why it requires the demeaning and belittling of the opponent. You can’t see, DKL, just how much the Republican brand has lost its way, how awful it has become. It stands for lies, it promotes lies, half-truths, and distortions. Take Jonah Goldberg’s silly book “Liberal Fascism.” Jonah knows quite well that fascism is a nationalistic-right-wing ideology (hell, his own magazine, The Nation, praised Fascists and fascist ideology in its past), but he takes provocative words (like fascism) and add his own definition to it and then slaps that label on liberals as if he thinks it will stick. It will, for those who have drunk their kool-aid. But it isn’t lasting, because it isn’t real. It won’t endure because it doesn’t build. It destroys. That’s the Republican brand—destruction. I am still boggled that smart men would stoop to such stupid levels. I’ll probably be boggled by this throughout the eternities. It doesn’t make sense. I keep hoping for better out of people, but clearly I should hope for their worst and then I’ll probably be happier with Republicans. Expect the worst out of them and then things are fine. |
Uh, sorry I meant the National Review, not the Nation. The Nation is a liberal magazine, and the National Review is the conservative one with ties to fascism. |
We’re living outside the US again and have to rely on Radio France and Al-Jezeera for convention coverage. There is very matter of fact coverage (Hillary endorses Obama in her speech) laced with the wierdest cult of personality vignettes, “Rednecks for Obama” (there are two of them) and lots of college co-eds gushing about their love for Obama. To listen to it here you half expect his speech to be met with a flurry of bras and panties. That and a lot of Biden saying “Obama was right , McCain was wrong” which is a little presumptuous if you ask me. What is completely missing is any substantial development of Obama’s depth or breadth as a political leader, and it’s lacking is starting to be telling. This is a guy, who just three years ago, was getting a wide-eyed tour of the capital building (here is the coffee machine, dial ‘9′ for an outside line). A year and half ago he announced he wanted to be president when he grew up and started a campaign, never having managed as much as a Carl’s Junior. He doesn’t even manage the family budget, Michelle does that. Now he dons his toga and wreath of olive leaves and strides onto the stage of his Greek temple to accept the adulation of so many adorants. it almost seems like a costume parade, “I can act like the candidate we have been waiting for.” If Obama is elected, I bet that after six months of having his lunch money stolen by the Washington political machine he is going to realize that if he was as smart he wouldn’t have voted for himself. I think there are a lot of the Democratic leadership that look at an inexperienced leader and a person who is afraid to make a personal stand (I vote present) and see a rubber-stamp patsy who will not hinder their legislative plans. |
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect, Dan. |
National Review - the Nation |
DKL - your interrogation technique needs some work. No wonder Republicans endorse waterboarding to elicit the answers they want to hear. |
Thanks DKL - nice summary. As a Democrat (and Hillary supporter), I was impressed with her speech as well as Bills. I was also surprised that neither Bill nor Hillary said that Barack had the experience to be President - they talked around it, not sure if that was on purpose. That is the key issue for me - someone who has been a Senator for 4 years (two of those while running for President) is NOT qualified to be President. Therefore, much to DKLs delight I am likely going to vote for McCain, since Hillary is not running anymore. First vote for a Republican candidate for President for me ever…. |
ECS: No wonder Republicans endorse waterboarding to elicit the answers they want to hear. Are you talking about you or me? |
Dan, Obama is pompous and vain and grandiose enough that he seems to be laying it out there just to bait people to hit him with the racist stereotype of the pompous-but-lazy negro politician of the black-and-tan reconstruction era. Or maybe Obama is hoping somebody will use stereotype of the social-climbing black man by saying that Obama’s Greek temple thing is like a Cadillac: “Other candidates settled for a speech at their convention, but Obama said, “Hell, no, bro! I’m drivin’ a Caddilac!” Obama seems to be baiting people to make racist comments like these so that he can bemoan racism some more and return to being the uniter. Imagine how people would react to Romney if he regularly handed out Book of Mormons at press conferences to proselyte or pontificated about Mormon standards, family home evening, and eternal families at turn. |
Dan, look on the bright side, tonight you’ll get to see Obama hurl lightning at us deranged Republicans from the top of Mount Olympus! You can run Karl Rove, but you can’t hide! |
Dan, once again, you need to stop. You complain of people belittling their opponents and yet that is all you do. Again, you do a disservice to you and your cause by the way you present yourself. Anyway, any thoughts on last nights “surprise” guest? Lame. If I were Biden I’d be a little upset about that. And I understand why there was a need to have Hillary speak, but why Bill? At the convention four years ago it was pretty clear what the future of the Democratic Party was (Obama). But now? |
I listened to the convention yesterday on the radio for a couple hours, and the thought that kept going through my mind was: “If this is a legitimate way to stage a political rally, then someone owes Leni Riefenstahl an apology.” Exemplifying this was the woman who got all sad at the realization that her oldest son was one year old when Bush was elected, and so the entire lives of her children have been overshadowed by the terrible monster who lives in the White House. Because after all, the single, ever-present, all-consuming fact of our existence is that George Bush is the U.S. President, but come Inaugural Day our lives will be given a new meaning in the form of a new President, BARACK O BAMA! |
Dan, this is your big chance. Maybe if you’re a really good boy, the great Obama will allow you to sacrifice yourself on the altar of his “greek temple thing” when the frenzied masses reach fever pitch. |
I was also reminded of Lewis Napper’s analysis of Gilligan’s Island: The Skipper represents official government. His authority stems not so much from democratic election as from the traditional role and powers of a ship’s captain. This historical precedent seems to convey his right to leadership more than any personal characteristics or qualifications. The castaways rely on this symbolic “right” to leadership to unofficially consent to his capacity as governor. |
ESO, I agree with you about the pundits. What amazes me is that they have so very much to say. Where does it all come from? As far as the dead time, what happens is this: During the majority of non-primetime speeches, most conventioners do not show up and very few members of the press do. The conventioners are enjoying the city, and the press is broadcasting and writing things in the area set aside for them (you can walk around these areas and see prominent members of the press interviewing prominent party figures for TV and radio; when I first saw such shows being broadcast, they looked very different from what I expected based on how they appear on television — plus, all the broadcasters, even the one’s that look young on TV like Shepherd Smith, look so very old in person and wear an insane amount of makeup and eye liner). Those conventioners and members-of-the press who are there generally ignore the speaker altogether and talk and walk around the stadium/convention hall. The result is the rather ridiculous appearance of a speaker who is speaking to an almost empty hall with no sign that anybody is paying any attention at all. But on the TV, the camera is close up and the microphone doesn’t pick up the chatter in the convention hall, so it appears that the speaker is the center of attention of an audience as large as you saw the night before when they captured the full, prime-time convention hall with a wide-angle shot. One rumor is that Romney is in town because he’s either aware that he’s a likely VP choice and its worthwhile to have the party see him attacking the left. He may also just be campaiging for VP. But don’t worry about Romney being there. There will be plenty of Democrats at the Republican convention. Why? Because politicians go where the press goes. |
Dan - maybe you should sit back and enjoy the fairly positive response from DKL. |
Denyn S, I’m very happy to hear that you’re voting for McCain. Welcome aboard the crazy train! |
Devyn, Positive? DKL? About a Democrat? Did you miss this comment?
Hmmm that may be positive in Bizarro World! |
DKL,
Thank you for finally admitting what is the truth. |
Dan - I was referring to his inital post which is fairly positive for DKL - surprisingly so. His comments and yours back and forth have not exactly been positive… |
I wish all you stupid, ridiculous, repulsive, sickly, stupid, deranged people would quit belittling, demeaning, smearing and reviling your opponent. It is just mind-boggling to contemplate how stupid and ridiculous and repulsive you are. But I guess that’s just my fault for expecting you to be something other than stupid, ridiculous, repulsive, sickly, stupid, and deranged. My bad. |
Devyn, Yes, his original post was fairly positive. |
DKL - I would not say I am excited about voting for McCain, but he is the lesser of two evils in this case. Of course I wrote in Clinton in 2004 as I could not see a lesser of two evils in that election (sigh). But if McCain picks Huckabee for his running mate, I am writing in Hillary. |
Devyn, McCain is not the lesser of two evils. He is the worst. Democrats are not doing the right message here in characterizing McCain. John McCain would not be “more of the same.” He would be “even worse.” I wish that Democrats would paint him like this because it is true. John McCain will lead America into a war with Iran, Devyn. Is that what you want? Do you want to send Americans into Iran? John McCain is a hothead who cannot control his anger. He lashes out first, and then thinks about how to respond to the consequences of his lashing out. This is not the quality we should have as a leader of our nation. John McCain will bring us into Cold War II with Russia, another pointless confrontation with an old foe. John McCain will not end the use of torture that Bush began. He will continue its legitimizing. He will bring further dishonor to our country, Devyn. How can you say he is the “lesser of two evils?” |
On Domestic matters, Devyn, John McCain will effectively end Social Security. He will “privatize it” which means it will end. He will ensure that the judges he will appoint will abolish Roe v. Wade (I don’t know what your own views are on that, but if you’ve never voted for a Republican before remember that this is their pinnacle issue) and make it illegal for women to get an abortion IN ALL CASES! How can you say he is the lesser of two evils? On foreign policy, John McCain was wrong about Iraq in 2001/2002/2003. He was a full supporter of that war right from the beginning, Devyn. What does that tell you about his judgment? He claims the Surge was a success but then uses another aspect that had nothing to do with the Surge that began before the surge and claims it proves him right (that being the Anbar Awakening, which started in September 2006, six months before we began approving the Surge). In Jordan, in a press conference, John McCain made the ridiculous claim that Iran was training Al-Qaeda and had to be corrected by the liberal, Joe Lieberman. You know, for someone who claims to be an “expert” in foreign policy, it sure must be humiliating to not even know the difference between extremist Sunni and Shi’ite groups, ESPECIALLY when we’ve been intimately involved with them for the past seven years! Surely by now, he would know the difference. But he didn’t. He repeated that lie more than that one time. How can you say he is the lesser of two evils? |
Best line of the convention so far was by Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland:
|
“and make it illegal for women to get an abortion IN ALL CASES!” My goodness Dan, did you just subtly admit that you are a Republican? Remember what you said about Republicans a couple posts ago? “It stands for lies, it promotes lies, half-truths, and distortions.” Well, there you go… “On foreign policy, John McCain was wrong about Iraq in 2001/2002/2003. He was a full supporter of that war right from the beginning, Devyn. What does that tell you about his judgment?” The real question that you should be thinking about if you feel that way about the initial Iraq decision is what does that tell you about Biden’s judgement. |
“John McCain will lead America into a war with Iran, Devyn. Is that what you want? Do you want to send Americans into Iran?” “John McCain will bring us into Cold War II with Russia” Now who’s spreading fear? There’s no way a Democratic Congress approves a war against Iran. |
Dan, your absolute obsession with politics is a serious detriment to your character and personality. |
Aluwid, Are you making the claim that Republicans will not make abortion illegal in all cases? Tim,
You know, that’s what I thought in 2002 about Iraq. |
danithew, I hope it comes across well that want Republicans out of power and held accountable for their violations of the Constitution. I want the war in Iraq ended. We never should have gone in. The moment that a Democrat becomes president who promises to end the war and starts ending the war is when I will start to retire from political blogging. I don’t enjoy this. But I hate even worse what Republicans have done to my country these past eight years. Utterly utterly awful. |
Dan - A couple of thoughts. First, I see myself as a social liberal and fiscal conservative - 1. Someone has to fix Social Security. It is unlikely that McCain would privatize completely, but with the Dem Congress, hopefully they can find a good alternative - something needs to be done though. 2. On judges - honestly I really doubt any Supreme Court judges will overturn Roe v Wade at this point - that is pure fear mongering on your part. I am pro-choice and don’t see that ever going away. 3. On Iraq - a lot of Dems were wrong on Iraq too in 2001/2002/2003. I am sure most of us were. Oh well, so now we have the mess, lets get out in an orderly fashion - that seems to be what everyone is saying on both sides. 4. Here is what I do NOT like about Obama a. He has two years of meaningful national experience in the Senate - 2, that is all If he waited another 6 years in the Senate, then ran, I would probably be ok with voting for him. |
Dan, “Are you making the claim that Republicans will not make abortion illegal in all cases?” No Dan, I’m making the case that Democrats not only support Same Sex Marriage but will forcibly marry all of us to members of the same sex. That’s right guys, DEMOCRATS WILL MAKE YOU MARRY A DUDE! |
Dan, 43
Too easy, read this article; |
MAC, Ah, Republican Mormons are indeed a single-issue group. Thanks for clearing that up. I hope you enjoy war and torture. As long as unborn babies are safe, I guess. |
Norm Al Mormon, Thanks for the words of defense. You express my feelings about Dan’s objections very clearly. Steve, I agree. Obama would have chosen someone else if he could have weathered the lack-of-experience storm without them. BrianJ, I’m surprised that you’re surprised that my review is fair. You’re right about Michelle talking about blue-collar parents, health struggles, better life for kids — but both parties have about equal numbers of working class voters, and everybody cares about health struggles and a better life for the children. I think that only the core, primary-voting constituency views these as uniquely Democratic. |
“Ah, Republican Mormons are indeed a single-issue group” In fairness Dan, we’re also against ritualistic animal sacrifice, which brings us right back to Obama’s speech tonight at a Greek temple thing. |
Devyn, #1. On Social Security. It isn’t in as big of a hole as some claim. In fact, I’ve seen reports that it can be ’saved’ by an amount equal to what we’ve spent on the War in Iraq. Ironic eh? We’re fine with spending our money at killing people, but we dare not use it to save people. That’s a biting line, and I’m sorry, but it’s true. We are more willing to use our money to wage war than to help our elderly. Social Security can be saved if we choose to do it. Frankly, I look forward to receiving social security when I retire. I’m paying for today’s retirees, and I hope our children will be willing to pay for us when we retire. One thing to remember about Social Security. If you attempt to privatize it, you’ve got to add about $1 trillion extra dollars from somewhere to start accounting for the new privatized money. The money you give today to Social Security doesn’t go into a bank for your use. It is used for today’s retirees. That’s the way the system was created originally. You must add extra money if you want to do anything different. Are you ready to raise taxes to get it done? Or are you willing to stop today’s retirees from receiving their earned security? 2. You bet there are judges who are very willing to overturn Roe V Wade. Four of them are on the Supreme Court right now, Devyn. All you need is one more and it’s done. 3. I agree with you definitely. I was very upset with Democrats for voting for the war in 2002. That’s why Clinton lost. She voted for the war and was unrepentant about it. Biden voted for the war, but changed his view afterward. That was smart of him. The evidence was there that we were being lied to by the Bush administration. I’m sorry that so many Americans let their anger at 9/11 cloud their judgment and allow the war in Iraq to happen. It was one of the saddest periods in our nation’s otherwise fine history. 4. About Obama, on spending, I think you will be surprised how much he will continue Bill Clinton’s legacy. Remember, in 1992 (as Bill himself reminded us last night), Clinton was also criticized for his “lack of experience.” How did he turn out?
You do realize that he actually has been somewhere except for his recent EU trip. He LIVED in Indonesia. Having gone on trips does not make one experienced, or more importantly, wise. How wise has John McCain been? |
Aluwid, Greek animal sacrifice? Because Judeo-Christian culture and tradition didn’t have any ritualistic animal sacrifices…oh wait… now, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? |
I have been reading a bit about Biden, particularly this past weekend, and I think there are a lot of things to like about him. I found myself wishing he had been president instead of Bill Clinton. |
Dan, you’ve become the Adam Greenwood of the Democratic party. I’d be willing to back hate-speech legislation just because it could justly be used to shut you up. Stop now, while you still understand why it’s a bad idea to become a suicide bomber. |
DKL, Support an end to the war in Iraq, support the abolition of torture. Support those and I will end my speaking here. |
“He LIVED in Indonesia” Because nothing provides more foreign policy experience than living in a foreign country when you are six years old. |
Aluwid, My point was that Devyn was wrong about Obama. Obama had actually lived elsewhere in the world. My point is that simply traveling the world does not make one “experienced” or “wise.” John McCain is one of the unwisest “travelers.” If he can’t tell the difference between Shi’ites and Sunnis after ALL THIS TIME, you really ought to be concerned about him being president. |
Dan: Support an end to the war in Iraq I support victory, and nothing ends a war like victory does. Dan: support the abolition of torture. Of course I support the abolition of torture! This is America, for crying out loud. I also do not believe that water-boarding is torture, and neither does Congress. The Geneva convention mentions water-boarding exactly as many times as it mentions chocolate. But you insist against reason and against popular opinion that it is in order to invent a moral high ground out of thin air and preach about the evils of torture. |
Dan, You’re absolutely correct, making verbal slips means you aren’t qualified to be President. I’m predicting that Senator Obama will sweep Senator McCain in all 57 states. |
Aluwid, you’re really short-changing Obama’s foreign policy experience if you’re not counting the fact that he has a brother who lives in Kenya. (With all the money they’re sinking into that Greek temple thing, I’ll bet they could have bought Obama’s brother a new shack!) |
DKL, What is “victory” in Iraq? You do not support the abolition of torture, DKL. Yes, this is America, and it is very sad to see people like you justify torture as not. You ought to be ashamed! Do you not even realize where the CIA learned the tricks they are using? They learned them from the Communists! Ask John McCain, when talking about his experience with torture, exactly what they had done to him. You’ll find that they tortured him with sleep deprivation, using stress points, and other things that the CIA is now using on their detainees. This is torture no matter how many times you say it is not. |
Ok, my last post on this thread: Sure McCain has seven houses, but at least he doesn’t live on Mount Olympus. Vote for the man that knows he is mortal! |
Aluwid, If McCain makes a verbal slip, I really wouldn’t care. But when it is REPEATED, then you ought to start questioning it. You know how many times he has said that Iran was training Al-Qaeda? He repeated the same thing at least three times that I can remember. Obama’s 57 state thing was simply a gaffe. McCain wants America to think Iran is in collusion with Al-Qaeda. That is highly troubling. |
“He LIVED in Indonesia.” Wow. Seriously? I doubt you give Romeny credit for serving a mission in France as Foreign Policy experience. |
Aluwid,
Hmmm, if Barack actually lived on Mount Olympus, you’d have a point. As he doesn’t, you’re just stupid. |
Careful about Malik Obama. There’s also Cindy McCain’s not-rich half-sister to throw in the mix. |
Tim, If you read my comment carefully (which I note you are not) you’d see that I wasn’t making the point that his living in Indonesia makes him “qualified.” It merely was a response to Devyn who said:
As this wasn’t true, I merely corrected Devyn. I then go on to make the point that being elsewhere in the world doesn’t necessarily make you qualified for the president. Just look at McCain who has been to numerous places. He is still an unwise man and unqualified to lead us. So Romney’s France experience won’t necessarily help him in claiming experience in foreign policy, especially since he constantly derides the French. Must have had a bad mission… |
John, excellent point. Not to mention John’s ex-wife, who he cheated on with the rich heiress. |
This has been a fun read. I’ve got this picture of Dan sitting at his computer, saliva specks peppering his monitor, sweat from his shaking brow flying across the room and foam dripping from his mouth as his fingers tremble violently over the keyboard… One of the most over-the-top deifiers of Obama was on NPR Morning Edition today. He was talking about turning points in history, “…like Moses, like Jesus…” and Obama? |
You watch it, too, Dan, or I’ll bring up Obama’s goofy grandpa, flaky commie-loving mother, and love-em-and-leave-em Marxist father. |
Dan - I still think the guy has too little experience - which is why I and likely many other Hillary supporters will flip to McCain. On Social Security - Obama will raise taxes anyway, he has openly stated that. On Foreign Policy - it is difficult to claim that Obama has more experience than McCain - 2 years in the Senate vs 20+ there is no comparison |
Devyn, I’m not talking about “experience.” I’m talking about wisdom. I think “experience” is overrated. John McCain proves that. He may be in the Senate for 20+ years, but that doesn’t make him wise. He fully supported the war in Iraq in 2002. He supports bombing Iran. He’ll take you to war with them, Devyn. He is not wise. He is brash, a hothead. It doesn’t matter that Obama is fairly new to the scene (as Bill reminded us yesterday, so was he in 1992). I’m telling you that voting for McCain is a mistake. You can vote for who you like, but I’m telling you it is not wise to vote for McCain if you want America to get better. |
Dan, 77 It is significantly more unwise to take someone who has displayed no particular wisdom, or any qualification other than the ability to give a nice speech, and give them the presidency. i am just hoping that most of the ethnic studies students and their ilk, who handed Obama the nomination, will have found some particularly good weed on November 3rd and forget why the happened to leave the house on the morning of the 4th, that or be distracted by a fluttering Wal-mart bag floating through downtown Madison (damn townies, they should just stay home and watch Jerry Springer). it is pretty obvious today that, if the Democrats had any wisdom at all, they would have nominated Hillary Clinton. That lady deserves the highest honor the RNC can issue. As a matter of fact I think I am going to send $10 to her campaign debt retirement fund and go home to feel particularly good about myself this evening. Today I will be an honorary Puma. I heart Monica Lewinsky, soon to be the butterfly-effect-savior of western culture. |
“He supports bombing Iran. He’ll take you to war with them, Devyn.” I doubt McCain’s first order of business is sending bombers into Tehran, Dan. I think McCain would rather NOT bomb Iran. |