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I think there’s a bit of a “blank slate” argument to be deployed here. If two people come into a marriage with no preconceptions and are willing to work together, can’t they develop compatibility? |
To be blunt, I think incompatibility in most cases translates into “ain’t gettin’ enough”. I would definitely call it incompatibility if one spouse thinks once a month is ok whereas the other is thinking at least twice a week. I could also see where incompatibility would be an issue if one of the spouses gained like a 150 lbs and became unattractive in the other person’s eyes. I don’t think having premarital sex would solve either of these problems, as they likely wouldn’t become as pronounced of an issue until well after the marriage began–and gradually at that. |
I would have to agree with queuno also. In fact I think studies support the idea of a marriage being more successful if the spouses don’t live together before marriage. Having premarital sex can be inferred from living together. |
1. It’s a pretty well known fact in most studies of divorce that people who wait to have sex and wait to live-in together until after marriage are much less likely to divorce (some studies show this gap as high as 50% less likely, from what I’ve seen) If you have been monogamous, you don’t have a means of comparison of what is and isn’t higher or lower levels of sexual compatibility, some of these studies have speculated. Personally, I think it has more to do with commonality of values and standards than that, but that’s me. I think sexual compantibility is something that is aided easily by communication, a few good books, and patience. Sorry no links for the divorce stats. |
Matt, I have to disagree that sexual compatibility is easily solved. What if one partner — abruptly — decides that sex is no longer desired or allowed? That happened to me seven years ago. Since then no kissing, touching — absolutely nothing. |
Matt; That looks to me to be as much as a control/power issue as it is a sexual one. Unilateral decisions on the part of either partner, (which could include employment or other time-intensive pursuits, purchases involving major debt, or moving to a different location, to cite a few examples I am familiar with) can also strain a marriage to the breaking point. |
A Comment, Generally I’m with Queuno. I think the whole “sexual compatibility” is so stupid. I would be embarrassed to say that out loud. |
“Sexual incompatibility” seems to be a hopelessly opaque phrase to me. If someone ever asked me how one could know they will be sexually compatible with their spouse without tryouts I would ask what specifically they mean by “sexually compatible”. As #1 points out, it is not a matter of comparisons for LDS who have always adhered to church standards. I think #2 is on point when it comes to understanding President Kimball’s comment. |
I am a convert as an adult and so have been in both situations before being in the church. Married before sexually active. And then living together before getting married to my second husband, we joined the church about two years after we were married. Both marriages were not real sexually compatible. Seems that we needed to learn something about each other. So it took some talking and some reading. Finding out what it took for each other without making it into something that was “porn” or dirty, but something that was part of a loving and intimate relationship. I believe that just about any incompatibility in a relationship can be overcome if it can be recognized, discussed, and worked out to the benefit of everyone involved. Especially when it is with someone you love. It should be easy to try to work to make something better for them. I have often heard that sexual incompatibility the symptom of a larger issue … something else that is not working right in a relationship, like money or control issues… in my first marriage, this was the case, a control issue, not a really a sexual issue. |
I think there is definitely something to the sexual compatibility argument. If you bring up statistics showing that people who wait for marriage are less likely to divorce, I don’t think that controls for the religious or other pressures to wait for marriage, that also strongly discourage divorce. A comment (5), That situation should be taken to counseling; I’m certain I would not be able to remain married under those circumstances, and I think that would be true of a lot of people. |
I think that a lot of “incompatibility” comes from the fact that some couples have, for some reason, a hard time talking about it. I feel it’s a subject that should be approached before marriage and definitely discussed, in depth, after marriage. |
I’m with those who aren’t really sure exactly what the term is supposed to mean. But then I’m an evolutionary biologist. If we belong to the same species, then by definition, we’re sexually compatible. “Sexually incompatible” would mean that we have non-overlapping breeding seasons, the parts don’t fit, the egg and sperm won’t fuse, etc. When people talk about finding out if they’re sexually compatible, I imagine them being somehow confused about whether or not their potential partner is a fellow human. |
Well, I don’t know about compatibility. But I heard this bit of advice in a wedding shower once “Never say no. It only takes ten minutes.” And I laughed and mentioned it to the woman giving it and she said, “that’s why we never fight.” And so I experimented and I think that quantity is more important than quality in having a good relationship. From personal experience. Marabel Morgan (The Total Woman) got a lot right. Not that I’ve been ably to consistently implement anything she said. And I’ve never wrapped myself in Saran wrap. That just doesn’t appeal to me. |
When one partner was sexually abused as a child, that can lead to sexual problems later on, and not necessarily at the beginning of a marriage/relationship. It may not be until well into the marriage, or into a second marriage, before something triggers the reopening of old wounds. The sudden decision not to be touched sounds very much like the person had such a thing going on. It’s amazing to me how people tend to choose as partners those who share some traits in common with their opposite sex parent. And not just be attracted to, but you tend to be attractive to them. Humans tend to repeat their childhood patterns. Women whose fathers were alcoholics tend to marry alcoholics, or those who become alcoholics, even when they don’t consciously realize it. Women who were abused by their fathers, have a tendency to marry men who eventually abuse their daughters. It’s not that they seek those things out, it’s that the “markers” line up, and people unconsciously are attracted to those “markers.” |
The LDS Church does not teach about sex enough. We’re told “no no no no, avoid, danger!” until our wedding day. It’s no wonder some marriage have struggles even consummating the marriage. My spouse and I were told by her bishop this following tidbit of excellent advice: “When you get married, your body is no longer yours. You need to be willing to give it to the other except in times of medical or societal imprudence” That was the best advice on sex I ever heard. |
Ah the old “sexual compatibility” argument. I’ve had some non-mormons practically foaming at the mouth trying to sell me on its virtues. What I always respond is this, “Okay, so let’s say you are madly in love with someone and then you have pre-marital sex and find you’re not “sexually compatible”…are you gonna just kick them to the curb? ‘I’m sorry I love you, but we’re not sexually compatibile. See ya!’” I mean really…do people do this? Would they not just work through their problems? |
I think you need only read through some of those fMh sex threads and you will find a few claiming incompatibility. I would concur that it generally indicates a difference in desired frequency (which I believe could be worked out in an otherwise healthy relationship). I also agree that Mormons or other first-timers after marriage likely benefit from a lack of comparison. |
The best advice I got about sex an marriage, etc. came from a Young Adult fireside. The speaker said there are 4 books every couple needs to have in their home: The scriptures, a cookbook, a finance book and a sex book. I followed his advice, and 21 years later, we don’t have problems in any of those areas. I plan on giving each of my children the same advice when they are engaged. |
livin in Zion, I think part of the problem is the waiting until your kids are engaged to speak positively of sex. Changing attitudes towards sex after a lifetime of being told it is evil is difficult and perhaps imposible for some. Imagine that President Monson announces today that coffee is ok to drink now. Lots of Mormons would still never drink it and continue to have negative associations with the smell of it. |
I think the “sexual compatibility” argument ignores one major, fundamental aspect of a person’s sexual makeup: it changes. Women, especially, go through drastic sexual changes as they begin to deal with maintaining a household, having children, and going through natural hormonal fluctuations. I think men tend to be a little more steady in the hormone levels over a long period of time than women, with changes occurring more gradually. With these changes in mind, sex before or outside of marriage has little to no bearing on sex in a marriage. In fact, it has the potential only to set unfair expectations and preconceptions. |
Most of my life was spent outside of the church. “Try before they buy†is useful for sorting out major incompatibility issues, but you don’t really know until the honeymoon years are over. Even then children, menopause and aging bring changes. annegb’s comment: Never say no. It only takes ten minutes is the best advice I’ve encountered. |
I am so sorry for you. I wish I knew what else to say.
I don’t even want to know.
That is the sort of thing I thought as well. When I consider that people manage to find desire in spite of pregnancy, age, sleep and everything else, I think that compatibility is more of the sort of thing annegb is talking about, and it makes me wonder how they miss it. Except for the saran wrap. I want to stay far away from that. |
#19: Maybe I just grew up in a great ward with awesome parents, but leaders telling me not to have sex or anything like unto it never equated with talking negatively about sex. All of my leaders consistently said sex was wonder and good and such. However, they didn’t get into details, for the explicit reason that talking details would make it a lot more difficult to wait. I guess the message I always got was, “Sex is great, but it’s so much easier to wait until marriage if you don’t think too much about it until it gets closer.” The transition really wasn’t that much of a shock. The occasional negative seminary or Sunday school lesson (the used gum or donuts injected with listerine or something equally nasty) was completely counterweighted by the generally positive attitude people took. |
You don’t have to have sex with someone to know if they get your motor running. Kissing can give you a quite lot of information. I dated a really nice, good husband material guy for a couple months. I kissed him a few times and that was it. I imagine that’s what kissing a fish would have been like. I didn’t tell him that’s why we broke up, just that I felt like we were better friends. My husband on the other hand, a couple kisses and the knees are weakening (even over 15 years later). I don’t think it’s fair to the other person (man or woman) to marry if you are not at all physically attracted to them. You don’t need to be lusting after them at every moment, but everyone deserves to be “wanted” by their spouse. Our stake pres. told us to not expect fireworks for awhile. It would take time to work out what is good for us. annegb is right. It only takes a bit of time, and you can make sure your man is happy all day. And, if he’s thinking of the “dessert” he’s getting later he’s not minding the fact that he’s getting left-overs (again) for supper, or you haven’t dusted in three weeks, or the laundry’s not put away, etc… |
Sexual incompatability can happen. I dated a guy for two years – stayed a virgin, but just barely – it was amazing all the time with him, but there were other issues that would have been a problem had we gotten married. Started dating a brand new member who wanted to do everything right so we we kissed a bit but stopped if we felt it was getting too heated up. We married and there was just not much spark there. It was pretty much 20 minutes and we were done. I wanted more, but he just wanted to get it done. I tried buying books, he wasn’t interested in reading them, thought things were fine like they were. He tries to be a good husband, but physically he just doesn’t want to spend much time, even though he likes it fairly often. I have no desire for sex since it is never pleasurable for me. He knows that but still hasn’t made efforts to resolving it. Major source of pain for me but I haven’t felt like I should divorce and destroy the family over it. |
10 minutes? That long? You’re counting the time it takes to shower and get dressed afterwards, right? On the cover of the October 2007 Ensign, I don’t think it’s what the editors intended, but the overnight bags in the couple’s hands, and the goofy grin on the guy’s face, might lead one to believe they’re going to check into a motel and have a good time. |
#12 is very amusing. Nice work left field. I agree. It sounds to me like the problem anon describes in #25 is at heart a selfishness issue on the part of the husband — my guess it that the less-than-great sexual relationship is the symptom not the disease. |
#25- Do you feel your husband loves you in other areas? Is he basically considerate? I have a 3x divorced brother whose first 2 wives said exactly what you say. Wife #3, who was experienced, called him on the problem, which he did not quite understand was a problem. She taught him how to please her, but the marriage did not survive her mockery when he failed. Marriage # 4 looks like a keeper-going on 12 years and finally sealed. He and first wife both feel that if they had known to try for a resolution of this issue their marriage would have had a much greater chance of succeeding. |
“When you get married, your body is no longer yours. You need to be willing to give it to the other except in times of medical or societal imprudence†Uh….wow. Just wow. Am I really the only person who has read this thread and thinks that this advice (along with that “Never say no. It only takes ten minutes” nugget of wisdom) is horrible? My body is still my own…thanks. Pretty sure my husband’s is too. He isn’t just a toy laying around to please me. This thinking is the justification for spousal rape. I notice its mostly men on this board that are confused by this concept of sexual incompatibility. But for woman, well…its just not so simple. And often in the case of Mormon woman, they have no idea how to please themselves so its not like they can teach (yes I am generalizing). I think its not just about sex with the person you are marrying though, that is important sure, but its not like knowing the sex is good before is a fail safe. Its about knowing yourself sexually also. Too often I see mormon woman who go years of marriage and lots of kids and don’t even know if they have had the big O and don’t even know what they are missing. Yeah of course this doesn’t always happen. I am sure this is what alot of people are thinking when they find the idea of no sex before marriage shocking – Not just no sex with each other…no sex period. Anyone see Finding Sarah Marshall? With the hilarious honeymoon couple that are miserable?
…sigh. Really? |
I highly recommend marriage to a man who has taught human gross anatomy. Somebody wrote in a blog comment once that any discussion of sexual compatibility that didn’t include the word “clitoris” is a waste of words. Compatibility varies by age and temperament and hormone levels. I was an adult convert, and not a virgin when I married (either time.) IMO, there is nothing quite so freeing sexually as making love with someone you completely trust. You can allow yourself to be vulnerable. That’s simply not the case with recreational sex. In other words, married sex is better. |
“It was pretty much 20 minutes and we were done” Anon, #25, You are my kind of girl. Call me and I’ll give you at least 40min, no bull. :) |
Apologies for being AWOL. (Labor Day ended up being a lot of work for me.) Thank you all for the interesting comments. I think sexual compatibility can be defined in a number of ways, including expectations for how often it occurs. I’m skeptical that having sex before marriage is the best way to alleviate any potential incompatibility problems for reasons many of you have stated above. More open discussion about sex between spouses is obviously important. I also agree that a major problem among LDS couples about to be married is that they simply have no idea how sex is supposed to work. I don’t think that’s the Church’s responsibility, but the Church seems to have spawned a culture that has made discussion of sex taboo. |
Well, I would have known that my wife has an aversion to giving oral sex. One problem is knowing if you are sexually compatible. The other is understanding your sexuality independently of each other. If you’ve never had sex at all, how will you know what you like/want? |
#33 Joe, All women have an aversion to giving oral. They do it as a favor more than their own choice. Its just unnatural to do. |
Anon 2 – I can tell you from experience that you’re incorrect. Yes, it falls in the “favor” category but that doesn’t mean many women don’t enjoy it. Columnist Dan Savage encourages partners to be GGG: Good, Giving and Game. Sometimes certain acts fall under the “giving” or “favor” category, but that doesn’t mean people have an aversion to said act. |
Insofar as sexual incompatibility is the result of disparate sex drives, masturbation is a better solution than the misery of sexual isolation or adultery or even divorce. The purpose of masturbation is to make up the difference between male sex-drive and female sex-drive. Before the wife hits her sexual peek in her mid-to-late 30s, masturbation tends to serve the man’s interest. After that, masturbation tends to serve the interest of the woman. That said, the generalization that men have stronger sex-drives than women is like the generalization that men are taller than women; it’s true insofar as it describes a distribution, but it doesn’t guarantee the characteristics of any particular person relative to any other person. In short, masturbation is like a clutch; specifically, it guarantees that two forces moving at different speeds connect smoothly. Tell your colleagues that you can risk the sexual compatibility thing, as long as your willing to pick up the difference masturbating on the back end. |
And #25 – really sorry. The odds of ending up with a LL (low libido) male are pretty slim, from my anecdotal data. Much more common the other way around. And it sounds like you may even be one of those wonderful, less inhibited women that the rest of us would have loved to marry. There’s something to be said for reincarnation… |
OK, sorry to monopolize the thread. DKL, masturbation really doesn’t satisfy some of the deeper drives for sexual intimacy. I’m not looking for a hormonal release, I’m looking for a way to connect with my wife, express my love for her, feel desired by her, and explore my own sexuality. Masturbation does none of that. Your comment of generalization is right on. Statistically the stereotypes work, but not on an individual basis. |
If by “sexual incompatibility” we mean different preferences or different expectations of frequency, I don’t understand why these would be deal-killers anyway. Any two people are bound to have thousands of differences. Where to live, how to squeeze the toothpaste, how many children, how to discipline children, tithing: gross or net, paint or wallpaper, sleep in the dark or with a nightlight, Democrat or Republican, early bird or night owl, where to set the thermostat, and on and on. My wife and I disagreed about how to count waffles. I always count whatever comes out of the waffle iron as one waffle. If you break it in two, you get two half-waffles. My wife thinks of the waffle iron as cooking two waffles which you separate by breaking the two waffles apart. After a few confusing breakfasts, we just agreed that we would each count waffles how we wanted and do the necessary conversion, which leads to some conversations which would be baffling to anyone else: “We have one waffle left. Do you want it?” “No thanks, I’m not that hungry; I’ll eat just one waffle and you can have the other.” Obviously, some of these things are more important than others, but they all have to be worked out. If you can work out differences that arise on child rearing and waffle counting, why can’t you work out differences that arise in sexual preferences? |
Joe: I’m not looking for a hormonal release, I’m looking for a way to connect with my wife, express my love for her, feel desired by her… Have you tried giving her a foot rub? |
Bookslinger, #26: LOL! The caption should have been, “Rekindling Intimacy in Marriage.” Tom Rod, #15: “The LDS Church does not teach about sex enough.” I can’t imagine what a church would (or should) teach about sex. |
I should clarify that my comment about #36 masturbation was in jest. This is probably a bad forum to make jokes in, but it struck me as a funny thing to write in such a deadpan tone. |
DKL #40 – yeah, that does two out of three. And trust me, I give plenty of back rubs. But I can do that for my dad, my sister and my daughter. Sex is one of the few expressions that distinguishes a romantic relationship from any other. I’m not saying sex is everything, but it is a large part of marriage. |
“Joe” is really creeping me out. |
Geoff J – do you just like running around and calling people “creepy” and “pervs” for fun? Do you not give back rubs to family members? |
Har! Was that you over there?? (If so you really are a creepy perv dude…) |
Just to be clear about my #39, I’m not suggesting that there aren’t serious sexual problems that cannot be solved. But it does seem like most of the issues that have been cited here as “sexual incompatibility” are fairly superficial, and ought to be able to be resolved. If the couple is planning on being together for the next 50-75 years, they’d better expect to be able to adapt to that sort of “sexual incompatibility” fairly often in their relationship. I am skeptical that more serious insoluble difficulties can be foreseen by indulging in a trial run. |
29. Julie, 34. Anon2: All women have an aversion to giving oral. |
We were plenty compatible before we were married. Our sex life ground to a halt afterwards. It is only my desire to keep my covenants and my fear of getting caught that prevent me from seeking extramarital affection, for pay or otherwise. |
DKL (36): LOL! Thanks for the sage advice. And I’m not buying your #42. Remember this? Geoff J (44): Maybe you are also just honestly sharing your feelings, but calling people “creepy pervs” when they try to share honest feelings about serious problems tends to prevent productive discussion. |
Geoff J #44 – nope, not me. Clicked through on your profile link and noticed that you have a vigilante approach on other blogs as well. |
response to #40 – I can testify that a 10 min (per foot) deep, relaxing foot rub gets me completely in the mood and I am a love slave, willing to do anything. My husband has caught on to how great it feels, and he requests foot rubs for himself. Sometimes we go to sleep without even getting beyond the foot rubs. They can be BETTER than sex! |
Well Tagore (#50), since Joe isn’t the same guy who commented over at the Thang I actually didn’t call him a creepy perv in this case. It was one of those conditional (if/then) creepy-perv-calling situations that we all encounter so often in life… |
Geoff J.: ROTFLMAO! Good point. Who among us hasn’t encountered a conditional creepy-perv-calling situation every now and again? |
Actually, I think it boils down to keeping desire and passion alive. Sexual compatibility is about recognizing sexual desires change overtime. I think we are constantly changing as individuals and couples and this includes what a person wants sexually. During a group date night, my dh asked our friends when the last time they “made-out” with each other. All of them said they never do anymore. The responses from the women ranged from too tired to busy. The guys responded in jest, with comments like , “hey, lets go park after dinner”. IMO, it’s about making sex a priority. Most marriages are filled with responsibilities, pressures and lack of time, but if it’s important, they make time for it. Also, for most women, (generalization) there is a major emotional component, that requires foreplay. |
I think part of the LDS challenge(s) abt sexuality is that for a Very Long Time, LDS were taught that sex was ONLY for procreation. Attitudes stick around for a long, long time, even if just below the surface (#19, arj). A possible comparison would be members who still insist on wearing Gs during sex, a (very) few still believe in maintaning contact while bathing… |
We’re talking about a lot of different, but related things here, IMO. Sex is a form of intimacy, but it isn’t the only one. And, again IMO, both members of a couple are seeking intimacy as much as or more than they’re seeking sex. Guys may appreciate quantity more than quality, but sometimes quantity can get divorced from feelings of intimacy. Especially if we’re talking 10 minutes including shower. I’d suspect that a lot of sex issues wouldn’t arise if both sexes had a better understanding of gross anatomy and physiology: the parts and the mechanics of how they work and work together. Both members of a couple would benefit from knowing what they individually like, before trying to teach the other member how to help with what is liked. A young men, with furtive masturbation, may be teaching himself that sex is something that should be finished as quickly as possible. His bride may expect something else. And, if she knows her own physiology, may be able to teach what she expects. As for oral sex, I assume that we’ve institutionally moved beyond our former labeling it “an unholy and impure practice.” Still, forcing, or guilting, one’s wife into fellatio (or anything else, for that matter) isn’t conducive to feelings of intimacy. Perhaps your leading by example would be more successful? Guys, don’t assume that sex is great if you’re provided with all the orgasms you want. Don’t assume that great sex = his and hers orgasms. Don’t assume that either of these equals intimacy. Gals, use your mouth: tell him what feels good and what doesn’t. Otherwise, he’ll remain clueless. Finally, don’t assume that 10 minutes of foreplay makes up for 3 day of arguments or other contention in the home. |
Micah: Shouldn’t you insert a parenthetical “no double entendre intended” after “Gals, use your mouth”? |
“Mich: Shouldn’t you insert a parenthetical “no double entendre intended†after “Gals, use your mouthâ€?” May God forgive Mormon Mentality!!! |
Tagore: And I’m not buying your #42 Actually, I thought the clutch line was pretty funny — the preceding paragraph is a setup for that. If I were to resort to bragging about how lucky I am in order to clear up this misunderstanding, it would surely be too much information. I’m reminded of the Woody Allen line from Manhattan, where he responds to a woman at a party:
(Note: I’m only saying this to try to be funny. I don’t intend it to be autobiographical. Though it is true that I’ve never had the wrong kind of orgasm.) |
Micah: Finally, don’t assume that 10 minutes of foreplay makes up for 3 day of arguments or other contention in the home. Agreed. 10 minutes of foreplay only makes up for about an hour of arguments and other contention in the home. Do the math. |
I think love is essential in marriage. Maybe I’m naive, but I tend to think that if the reciprocal love is there, things will work themselves out. “Sexual incompatibility” is a rather odd phrase that probably gets abused … sort of like “irreconcilable differences.” |
Woody Allen/sex joke#2: |
What is the “reciprocal of love”? With a hat-tip to Left Field, the evolutionary biologist, I’m mathematically inclined, so it sounds like “1/love” to me. As love increases, the “reciprocal of love” decreases. |
I agree with danithew on the use of “sexual incompatibility.” My impression is that instead of using the term to describe various forms of genuine sexual incompatibility (like say, I don’t know–trying to match up an aedeagus with a pistil), it tends to be used to describe rather frivolous differences (“We didn’t agree on whether or not to leave the lights on. Good thing we had pre-marital sex so we could find out how sexually incompatible we were.”) The only circumstance that comes to mind that I would call “sexual incompatibility” between humans would be if one or both partners are unwilling to respect and adapt to the other’s boundaries. It seems to me that the mere fact that someone thinks a partner has to pass a pre-marital compatibility test might raise a red flag that the person is in fact unwilling to respect and adapt to the other’s boundaries. |
There are quite a bit of interesting perspectives on here. My personal perspective is that you’ll know if your sexually compatible in the first 15 minutes of meeting someone. It either is, or is not, there. The pheromone and psychological factors happening behind the scenes square that away in my opinion. Now, that being said, there are a myriad of reasons for decrease in libido, and if you really have waited years to be intimate with someone, you would take the steps necessary to keep it going strong. Perseverance and love should really do wonders if both sides communicate. If not, well, we all know where that leads. |
Potential Convert, I dunno. I think that the hormones going through both male and female brains are different upon first meeting than they are after a year’s close association. I don’t know if the former offer sufficient data with which to make a decision. But, I think they are necessary – everyone should remember being once “swept off their feet” by the experience of first meeting their present love interest. Even if that sweeping took place 25 or 50 years earlier. |
Tagore (#57), Moi? |
Quick bio: I’m writing as someone who was raised LDS, “fell away” at about 16 (went to BYU anyway) and has had what can probably be described as a relatively normal sexual history (2-3 long-term active sexual relationships ranging from a couple years to just under a decade, as well as encounters that could be termed ‘casual sex’). I don’t want to quibble about my use of the word ‘normal’ though. With that out of the way, here are my thoughts on what I think is really interesting thread. First, quite a few of those posting seem to be confusing the issue of keeping sex interesting through the duration of long-term relationship and the issue of whether one is more or less likely to have “bad” or “good” sex with a prospective partner. The former is a problem for everybody, both for couples who have each had only one sexual partner, and for any other couple committed to one another for the duration regardless of their sexual history. A lot of the discussion above seems devoted to this “keeping-the-spark-alive” issue, but it doesn’t seem to me to be the target of the original question. Regarding the second issue: in the first place, yes, sorry, there really IS a difference between good sex and bad sex. However, I just can’t take seriously the point that anyone committed to abstaining from extra-martial sex is really risking ending up in a sexually incompatible relationship. As others above have already indicated, good sex depends HEAVILY on how attractive you find a person, how much you trust that person, how well you communicate with that person, and finally, whether you love each other. You can be pretty sure you’ve got all of the above before actually having sex; and of course hopefully having all of the above is in part what motivates people to get married. In my experience, casual sex pales in comparison to sex with a committed partner. (Most of the time). I think there is something extremely wise in the suggestion that we be very exclusively in our sexual relationships. The church’s take on this seems to me a good instance of that wisdom. Now MAINTAINING a good sexual relationship over the course of many years, that’s a completely different matter altogether. Sorry for the long post. |
The argument is very valid and proven. Now, I would disagree with it being the number one factor in divorces because money typically takes the taco. Sexual compatibility is a close 2nd though. I’ve known one person to wait till marriage, not an entire couple. Sex has been suppressed so long I think it’s a natural reaction to engage-in before matrimony. |
First and foremost — everyone, and every couple, is different. What works for one person/couple doesn’t always work for another. People form strong prejudices based on their own personal experience. I really like the suggestions in this forum — if you have ever read around on the web, advice from WHOEVER about a spouse that isn’t into sex, it’s amazing how many people just tell you to quit trying, seek pleasure elsewhere, etc. Many assume that a sex-starved husband did something that makes his wife not want to have sex — or didn’t do something (like foot rubs, ha ha). Certainly, with the millions of different situations, some advice will apply, and some will not. I think Mormons tend to do a pretty good job of internalizing, and trying to decide what they are doing wrong individually, that may make their spouse not want sex anymore. That’s how it’s been for me. It’s actually been a good experience. Instead of taking it a negative direction, which could be very easy, I’ve tried to find ways to adjust my attitude to where it was before, when we were dating. I’m trying to become “interested” in her more, and giving up time I spend doing what I like to do — basically, getting to know her better. It has also resulted in the same for my kids — more interest in what they are doing, and in spending my free time with them. I’ve been more helpful around the house. Less grumpy about the kids waking up and ruining sleep :) It’s not like I was a horrible person before all this, but my focus has changed. Nothing has changed with sex, though. Not frequency, passion, manner — etc. Nothing. My wife isn’t interested. I can make it as much or as little obvious as possible, and it doesn’t matter. She doesn’t even think about it. She’s a great wife. Great mother. She cares about me — but caring about me and sex just don’t seem to be AT ALL linked in her mind. I can’t even think of the last time she initiated anything physical. And yet, she enjoys it just fine when we do get around to it. So, I have put forth efforts to create a better atmosphere for sex to happen, but she really just isn’t interested. I have spoken with her very plainly about this issue. She thought I was mad. But I explained to her it wasn’t mad — it’s frustrated. It’s really NOT IN MY CONTROL. It’s in her control. And it may not even be in her control (if hormanal or other). I explained that it feels like rejection — and it’s NOT JUST ABOUT SEX, it’s about any kind of reciprocation of romance, compliments about looks, holding hands, contact, etc. She can say she didn’t know I wanted all that when we’re too tired to talk, even though I’ve been talking about it all day !!! It’s in one ear, and out the other. You know, just like small talk is for a lot of us husbands :) But, the good thing about this? And it’s pretty much what really matters in the end — I feel better about my efforts as a husband and a person in general. While I still LONG to have recriprocation of what I am MORE THAN willing to give :), it’s not nearly as frustrating as it used to be. I am beginning to feel more in tune with her needs, and feeling less concerned with my own. You do truly get lost in service — while I of course hope one day things brighten up for our sex life, things aren’t so bad. |
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Hi Dave, I admire how you handle things up with your wife and your family. Nice insight. Very much appreciated. Lice |
I’m lds and waited until marriage to have sex. The sexual compatibility argument is VERY valid. My wife has a disorder which makes sex painful for her. When we have had sex, it was uncomfortable, frustrating, unpleasing and disheartening. After years or surgery, therapy, and practice, we just gave up. It caused tension and brought up all the ways we don’t make each other happy. We almost got divorced once, but I stuck it out for several more years, hoping she would get better and be more like I wanted her to be in all the other ways. She never grew and I’ve wasted years in a relationship that hasn’t grown or progressed since we got married. I anticipate that divorce is imminent. I’d rather sin and find a compatible sex partner, repent and then get married. |