163 Comments | leave a comment | RSS 2.0 for this post | trackbacks off |
“Romney gave a very god speech” Freudian slip? :-D |
I wish! Just a typo. I’m sure the entire thing is replete with them. I type very fast, and I don’t have a lot of patience for blogging. So I pound these things at 90+ words per minute and press publish. If I have the energy, I proof it after it’s already published. Thanks for pointing it out. It’s now fixed. |
Every time the camera panned to McCain’s mother, she seemed mortified. I don’t really blame her. Can you imagine what she was thinking as a tiny special needs baby was passed from person to person for the cable news? |
Lieberman – Before he spoke I was hoping that he would dramatically state that because his party had gone off the deep end he was going to become a Republican. But his message of “~If you’re a Democrat or an Independent then vote for Senator McCain anyway~” works best when he isn’t a member of the party. And he’d be one very liberal Republican if he were to join. Plus now we get to hear about the drama of how his Democratic Senate Colleagues treat him. Governor Palin was great. We needed someone like her in the forefront of the Republican party and I’m very excited about the ticket now. |
Ironic that the most significant representation from the most Republican state would be the opening prayer on Monday… |
(Because Mitt’s a Massachusetts guy, not a Utahn…) |
Ahh, man. After your fair and balanced reviews of the DNC, I was hoping you’d let Dan guest post his thoughts on the RNC. {grin} |
I was thinking the same thing about Giuliani eclipsing Palin but once she got out there it became clear that was not going to happen. However, I suspect both speeches will eclipse McCain’s speech tomorrow. I am very curious to see if this convention gives McCain the bounce he is looking for. They were eating it up at the RNC but I can’t tell how it will play nationally. |
DKL: I’m starting to agree with you about Palin, at least as far as Republicans are concerned. Listening to her speak I thought, “Man, if I were a Republican I would be totally energized right now—even if I didn’t like McCain.” I’d call it a “solidifying the supporters” speech. I am curious to see what effect it will have on undecided voters, but I’d guess she won a lot of votes tonight. Which is, by the way, the effect that Biden’s speech had on me, being a Democrat, and my wife, who leans Democrat. So from our perspective, Biden’s speech was much better than you give credit. I thought Thompson ruined his whole speech when he said, “Now, being tortured doesn’t qualify someone to be president…” Yeah, we know that, but you don’t need to say it! He should have stuck to his very eloquent, John Waynesque, tribute to McCain’s character. I missed most of Giuliani. His style has always bothered me though—seems weasely—so I’m a poor judge of his speeches. |
Obviously I’m not a dyed-in-the-wool Republican … so I don’t understand why Giuliani or Thompson even had to speak. Couldn’t they have given more time to the Huntsmans and Jindals (ok, maybe Jindal is busy) or other young-ish republicans with a future? Do real Republicans *really* want to hear from Rudy and Fred? Really? |
Queuno, I heard some people wondering why Giuliani was given the keynote, but after his performance tonight I don’t think anyone regrets it. Fred is very popular with the conservative base. He can’t campaign well, but he can give a great speech. I agree that Jindal would have been good to hear from as well, but as you said he was obviously occupied. |
I thought Giuliani might have been a little over the top. He certainly took the gloves off. BrianJ, NBC’s Chuck Todd put it best, “Conservatives now have their Obama.” It’s nice that a member of the media figured this out. |
It’s nice to see the Republicans finally have their red meat. I hope they are satiated long enough to last through to 2012 because what we saw last night will not win votes in November. |
Laura Rozen said it best:
That’s exactly correct. |
I suspect that you are right that both Guliani’s and Palin’s speeches will be better remembered than McCain’s, but I did not find either one of them very remarkable. Clearly, I was not the target audience. The most memorable line was the one about pit bulls and hockey moms, which does not seem very flattering. And I think the continual “bridge to nowhere” talk may come back to bite her. (I totally agree on Palin’s accent). I don’t really want to be persona non grata again, but what’s with all the torture talk? I think it is about the only thing that everyone already knows about McCain, so why remind us again and again? It was a little too much for me (and Fred was right about it not qualifying you for president). That said, maybe it is par for the course with war injuries and politicians. I have been struck by the difference in crowds. The RNC delegates are so so so very white (not that there is anything wrong with that) and old (which is largely true of both conventions). Clearly the cameras are pulling the same tricks as at General Conference–close-ups of all non-white faces they see. |
ESO, I’m just writing this quick response from my iPhone: you’ve never been persona non grata here or on any other thread of mine. |
The Republican message to America in this convention, as said by Steve Benen:
|
The RNC delegates are so so so very white (not that there is anything wrong with that) Really? Then why mention it? |
That was a good speech last night, I just was surprised they had Tina Fey up on the podium… |
I lean Republican and I found Palin’s speech to be energizing. I’m still on the fence (due mainly to my complaints with McCain’s wishy-washy politics and his ideological hawkishness), but listening to Palin at least made me want to *vote* Republican. It had the opposite affect on my wife, who tends to lean Democrat. |
“He spent that last several minutes telling this story about veterans and school desks that fell more flat than Elder Bednar’s gospel/pickle analogy.” I admit I didn’t get Huckabee’s story. How did the veterans earn the school desks? Freedom, I get; but school desks? I didn’t troll the bloggernacle after the pickle talk, so I don’t know if there was much discussion of the talk; but I remember thinking that the Atonement is nothing like a pickle, and that the best way to understand the atonement isn’t with comparisons to pickles (or schools of boys in Virginia, or a kid on a train track), but with unbridled testimony. Thankfully, Bednar came back with his “Don’t be Offended” talk that I liked a lot. |
Great opening from a story in Newsweek: “This crazy election has more weird twists than “Trapped in the Closet.” First Hillary seems invincible, then Obama wins Iowa, then Hillary weeps her way back into it, and McCain’s dead in the water, except then he starts lugging his own bags, and people learn about Mormons, and somehow McCain wins—but, hey at least it’s not Rudy—and then Hillary seems certain to lose but won’t admit it, but then she finally does lose and some time later actually does admit it, and meanwhile her husband sulks, and Reverend Wright stews, and John Edwards, um, happens, and before you know it we’ve got a black nominee drawing crowds like the Beatles and history just pops off like firecrackers. And then we get Sarah Palin.” |
john f–the “not that there is anything wrong with that” was a Seinfeld quote–I was trying to soften the blow. I don’t think it is a sin to be white (as I believe it to be something over which we exercise no control) but I do think it is a weakness of a political party (or any group of people, really) to appeal largely just to one type of person. I value diversity. I would love to have seen a wider variety of people and since I was referring to crowd shots, all I can really ascertain is race, gender, and age (education, economics, dispositions, abilities, and orientation not being so obvious). Both genders seemed amply represented; both DNC and RNC have many elderly delegates (although I suspect the DNC had more non-AARP members); but the RNC crowd is very very homogenious when it comes to race. DKL–you made my day. I loved seeing the shots of the youngest daughter (Piper?) holding Trig–playing with his hair, poking at his face, etc. Every time, I thought to myself “if she wakes that baby up, she’ll be in big trouble!” |
Dan, “Your house may be on fire, but don’t trust that man standing outside with a hose, because he doesn’t share your values.†Senator Obama is sitting outside the burning home with a water pistol. Meanwhile, Governor Palin just drove up in a fire truck. |
Re: “Senator Obama is sitting outside the burning home with a water pistol. Meanwhile, Governor Palin just drove up in a fire truck.” I think it would be awesome if this thread turned into a big metaphor contest. I’ll continue your metaphor with “Unfortunately, nobody ever taught her how to use the hoses for the fire truck.” ;-) |
Rick, Sarah Palin doesn’t need fire hoses, she blew the fire out. Then she noticed a very dejected looking Senator Obama holding his water pistol, gave him a pat on the back, and handed him her spare moose burger. |
But McCain can show her! Yeah, this is fun. |
If Obama wins the election, I’m going to hang myself with a firehose. |
Aluwid, The she turned her back and flew off into the night sky. Obama tasted his moose burger and thought it could use some arugula. But there was no Whole Foods nearby … |
And no one will shed a tear. |
Wow, just wow. |
re # 30, sure, that’s a fund story but the salient point is found buried in the middle: “There is nothing particularly wrong with any of these actions.” |
“fun story” |
Oops, i take back my last comment, i forgot it was a metaphor contest and not a short story contest. |
DKL, did you really think Romney’s speech was “very good”? Yours is the most glowing report I’ve heard. I thought it came across as rather pathetic, as if Romney was trying too hard. And regarding Palin being “lucid on energy policy”: isn’t it a bit contradictory to say “Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America’s energy problems – as if we all didn’t know that already” when just 4 days previously she said “I beg to disagree with any candidate who would say we can’t drill our way out of our problem”?? So taken alone, her remarks on energy may come across as very lucid, but taken in the context of her previous statement, her comments on energy last night were anything but lucid. All that said, her speech was quite effective, and appears to have really rallied the Republican base. |
Hey cool, I got quoted. But if you are going to leave my embarrassing typo intact shouldn’t your really rub it in by adding a “(sic)” to my “to” that should have been a “too” DKL? (grin) With that comment I actually sort of meant the Republicans should be careful about trying to shoot down the message of hope Obama pitched in the immediate aftermath of his acceptance speech. A week later I would expect Obama to be fair game again. As it turns out the GOP had a much better technique to distract from Obama’s big day with the Palin announcement anyway. |
|
A true community organizer, like the kind disparaged by Palin and Giuliani. What a shameful group today’s Republican party has become. |
Finally a democrat admiting to comparing Obama to Jesus. |
anon, if you were really in tune with the Spirit, you would know that Barack Hussein Obama’s membership in the Democrat party makes him an enemy of God, religion, Truth and morality, virtually by definition. Perhaps you should retire to your room and pray to see the light. While you’re at it, please pray to have the courage to jettison your shameless anonymity too. |
Kyle, Obama is a follower of Jesus, as am I. It’s not a comparison. It’s that Obama follows in the spirit of Jesus in helping out people. This is the kind of thing Republicans despise from what Palin and Giuliani were saying yesterday. You guys ought to be ashamed that they represent you. |
“It’s that Obama follows in the spirit of Jesus in helping out people. This is the kind of thing Republicans despise from what Palin and Giuliani were saying yesterday.” I don’t think they were mocking community organizers per se, rather that Obama argued being a community organizer gave him experience to be POTUS, while deriding Palen’s experience as a mayor. The argument was: “being a mayor is better preparation for an executive office (VP or POTUS) than being a community organizer.” The argument was not: “community organizers suck. Run them out on a rail!” You may disagree with the argument, but at least disagree with the argument made rather than the one you wanted made because it’s easier to disagree with. (I do understand that arguing with what the opposition did not say is standard operating procedure in politics, but if we want to exchange ideas on blogs, it’s better to be on the same page.) |
“Finally a democrat admiting to comparing Obama to Jesus.” I must say, the Daily Show captures this idea beautifully like saying when Obama visited the Middle East, he’ll be stopping by Bethlehem to visit his birthplace. Love it. |
anon, I just reread the quote: I believe her intent is what I expressed in my previous post, but based on the language alone, your take is just as valid. |
Adam, I think you missed out when Giuliani dripped utter contempt for community organizers. He ripped into them, big time. Both of them, Palin and Giuliani showed utter contempt for people who gave up careers on Wall Street to work the urban street. Shame on them. And Giuliani? Criticizing “cosmopolitan?” Could you have a worse person to make such an argument? The mayor of New York City? The cross dresser? The man with lots of gay friends? What an utter idiot. What the hell do you conservatives see in this fool?
Heh, right on. |
Anon-o-Dan, If Obama wins the election, I’m going to hang myself with a firehose. and
I can see that…This argument would be better if you left yourself out, though it would still be a monstrous assumption of too many things and it would open the door for a certain Jeremiah Wright. |
Adam,
Can you show me where Obama “argued being a community organizer gave him experience to be POTUS?” Because it sure seems like a straw man created by Republicans. |
40. That’s typical democrat blather. Republicans aren’t democrats, so they despise helping people out. It’s beyond silly. 42. If Obama does win, pay attention for him moving the capital to Jackson County. |
#44 Hater-anon-Dan-o-spam, Giuliani wasn’t nominated, you’ll remember. And you are funny in how definitively you express what people are “dripping.” |
I thought Dan had retired from political blogging? |
Dan, are you saying the Obama camp is NOT touting his community organizer background as experience that somehow makes him an attractive candidate for the presidency? AB |
Dan can’t retire from political blogging, because he isn’t really a person. Dan is the name of a bot that has somehow infected the computers at a mental hospital somewhere. It stays resident on the server, storing up the rantings of people who are clinically insane, and then spams them out into the bloggernacle. |
Re: The accent: Sarah Palin doesn’t actually have an accent, it’s distortion from her telepathic broadcast directly into your brain. Among her other accomplishments: Sarah Palin can roll a natural 20 on a d6 Sarah Palin is not a Bible Thumper; she punches her fist through it. Sarah Palin is the reason compasses point North. (yeah, yeah, I know DKL pointed this out on the other thread…. back to lurking . . . ) |
AB,
Can you show me an instance? I mean, I read his biography on his website, but it doesn’t highlight his work in community organizing as something special, rather just something he did in his life. Where are the instances where Obama or his campaign has tried to argue, as Adam stated, that his days at community organizing were qualifications for POTUS? Can you share them with me please. |
I agree that I think Obama generally characterizes his community organizer days as: I do not recall an instance in which Obama or his campaign have said that his first job as a community organizer set him up to run the country. I did find the tone of the convention last night to be rather mean and mocking. I think that, generally speaking, the DNC speakers (at least the main ones) made great efforts to praise aspects of McCain’s service and work while being critical of some of his policies. That same respect was not reciprocated. |
A few thoughts even though I didn’t hear the full speech. 1. Palin succeeds in large part if she doesn’t screw up. She’s already done what was necessary and what McCain couldn’t do: galvanize and energize the base. 2. Like others, Palin’s Reaganesque moment wasn’t quite greatness because she didn’t give us something to reach for. On the other hand she’s the VP not the Presidential nominee. But criticizing liberals is insufficient. One has to offer alternatives. We’ll see what McCain does. But he’s not exactly a great speaker. 3. I’m pretty opposed to negativism. But can I just say how hypocritical it is coming from people who regularly lambast Bush or any other Republican? Sadly this is politics as usual but attacking Palin for being sacrastic is kind of silly. 4. The concern that McCain is old enough for VP as President to be a concern in a way it’s not for Obama is real. I’d feel better about the choice after the VP debates. On the other hand the debates don’t always tell us much. I remember after the Cheyney/Leiberman debates how many people were saying the tickets ought be reversed. I wonder how many of those (mainly Democratic) pundits feel that way now. 5. I don’t recall Obama saying being a community organizer gave him experience to be President. What he did say was actually worse. Running a campaign to run for President gave him experience to be President. 6. The real big issues ought be energy policy, health policy and military. McCain is the winner on the former (although Obama is changing his rhetoric somewhat but I suspect it’s merely rhetoric.) Obama is better on health care but neither go far enough. On military both are huge loses although McCain wins slightly by at least being behind the surge and not wanting to do a pullout and let Iraq descend into chaos. (i.e. take responsibility) But both frankly scare me, but for different reasons. On economy Obama probably wins but I think the weakness of the economy is way exaggerated and Obama’s tax increases scare me. |
ESO: …what’s with all the torture talk? During the Democratic convention, the fact that Obama forewent a high-paying job to work with communities was touted over and over. The idea in the Republican convention was to contrast this with McCain, who forewent college and a career to fight in Vietnam, endured much worse than the low-pay and thanklessness suffered by community organizers like Jesus and Obama, and was lucky to get out with his life. |
Palin’s speech drew 37 Million watchers. That’s pretty incredible. Like Chuck Todd said, “conservatives have their Obama.” http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/palins_tv_audience_hits_37_mil.php |
. . . the DNC speakers (at least the main ones) made great efforts to praise aspects of McCain’s service and work while being critical of some of his policies. That same respect was not reciprocated.” What service has there been to praise? As Leiberman put it, Obama may do great things for his country, but he hasn’t yet. Well, he did earn two Grammies. |
|
I haven’t watched TV coverage of either convention, but I have read some news reports. If the reports I have read are accurate, the most shameful moment of either convention so far, without question, has been Al Gore’s phoniness about torture, as though Bush invented it or something. Let’s not forget — The Clinton/Gore administration began a systematic program of rendition and torture in peacetime, and the ACLU has documented as many as 100 fatailties resulting from it. When a kidnapping of a foreign national in a different country was being discussed, the question of legality came up. Gore famously said “Who cares if it is legal. Go grab his ass!” For that fat pantload to now turn around and get political mileage out of this topic, with no acknowledgement or regret on his part that his administration did the same thing, is beyond disgraceful. |
Dan, if this is retiring from political blogging it’s a good thing you have retired; if you hadn’t no one else could get a post in edgewise. Your quote from Laura Rosen had one thing right, the crowd did want to hear more. After months and months of hearing that Obama is equivalent to Moses and Jesus and MLKjr combined they were ready for some deconstruction. Even though you apparently are enamored with the phrase “utter contempt” (is it some kind or Romanian cognate?) you have it all wrong. Those jabs by Giuliani and Palin carried more amusement than contempt. They weren’t attacks, they were remarks intended to downsize Obama the legend in order to make it fit Obama the public servant. |
Uh, KLC, do you know what deconstruction is? And are you aware that it is the Republicans that have been mockingly suggesting for months now that Obama “that Obama is equivalent to Moses and Jesus and MLKjr combined”? And did you really just suggest that Guliani and Palin’s speeches weren’t attacks?? Even Fox News recognized them for what they were — “biting”, “mocking”, and “insulting” attacks. |
“And are you aware that it is the Republicans that have been mockingly suggesting for months now that Obama “that Obama is equivalent to Moses and Jesus and MLKjr combinedâ€?” I didn’t realize John Stewart was a Republican. |
As a Republican, Mormon, mother of two, who is scared to death of the Obama-worship that’s been going on in the “mainstream” media (which can no longer be called even remotely mainstream), last night’s speeches were wonderful! Sarah Palin knocked it out of the park. She is a wonderful speaker, energetic, not ashamed one bit of her five kids, nor is she afraid to smack Obama and his ilk on the head and say, HEY, prove your worth! Woo-HOO! |
Tim J, thanks for the numbers. Here’s a more detailed summary: Obama got 38M viewers Networks carrying the Palin speech: 6 Moreover, one can pretty easily separate the those statement from liberal pundits that are trying to shape perception from those statements that are strategizing to deal with it. Talking Points Memo, had the following to say:
One great thing about watching MSNBC’s commentary was seeing how visibly deflated they were by the speech. It was a very sharp contrast to their response to Obama. It will be interesting to see whether Palin extends her winning streak in the coming weeks. I don’t know how sheltered she’ll from the press before she debates Biden, but there’s sure to be a lot more access to her than there was to Obama leading up to the Pennsylvania primaries. Regarding negativity and whether it turns people off, that’s a load of nonsense. Every convention, both sides attack the other. It’s part of the show. Every convention, the press decries the negativity of the Republicans, while talking up the showmanship of the Demacrats’ attacks. |
Not that I really care as I think the rule goes a little too far, but how do BET, TVOne, Univision, and Telemundo not have to broadcast the Republican Convention due to “equal time”? |
ESO: I have been struck by the difference in crowds. The RNC delegates are so so so very white. Since 1972, the Democratic party has used a quota system to control the makeup of its delegates to ensure a certain percentages of women and different minorities. In other words, it’s basically a PR stunt and doesn’t actually say anything about the demographic and ethnographic makeup of dominant party activists. If the Democrats didn’t do this, their delegates would look pretty much the same as the RNC delegates. |
Tim J, there is no equal time doctrine. Reagan got rid of it, because he believed it was philosophically unsound. Though broadcast airwaves are regulated through a complex licensing system (they belong to the public; i.e., the government), the notion of free speech is important enough to actually allow advocacy of political positions on news programs without burdening them with the additional expense of finding and broadcasting other opinions (an expense that gave network news a de facto monopoly on defining political issues). |
Uh, Christopher, yes I know what Deconstruction is, do you know what I meant when I used deconstruction in its most literal sense, as in unconstructing? For months now we’ve witnessed the building of the Obama edifice just inside the beltway of Mt. Olympus. Palin did a nice job of deconstructing that edifice (if you still don’t understand ask your guidance counselor or your dorm room RA, maybe they can help). As for Republicans mocking the Moses, Jesus, MLKjr allusion, of course they are. But why would you mock something that has never been alluded to in the first place? NPR had a great interview with a DNC delegate who spoke of “watershed moments in history when people like Moses and Christ…” so maybe you should revise your own awareness before questioning the awareness of others (again, if this is over your head maybe your junior college librarian can steer you toward something to help you out). And finally, yes I am saying that those speeches weren’t attacks. If you think those are attacks you must have been home schooled. |
KLC, first off, chill out. I asked a simple question. Deconstruction is a pretty loaded word, and your use of it in the above comment suggested you were unaware of that. That’s all. Secondly, your personal attacks are not only silly, but inaccurate. I don’t live in the dorms, have no guidance counselor, was not home schooled, and have never attended a junior college. Maybe you should revise your own awareness before insulting others’ credibility with your ignorant suggestions and suppositions. |
ESO: I did find the tone of the convention last night to be rather mean and mocking. I think that, generally speaking, the DNC speakers (at least the main ones) made great efforts to praise aspects of McCain’s service and work while being critical of some of his policies. That same respect was not reciprocated. I suspect this is a matter of bias. I tried to avoid political editorializing in my summaries, but I recall Obama himself mocking McCain’s for being out of touch and living in Washington too long, for owning so many homes, not knowing how many their were (apparently, Cindy handles the finances), and mocking him (deceptively) for saying that the middle class earns $5,000,000 per year (he said that as a joke, laughed, and then remarked to himself, “That will probably be distorted”). I think that most die-hard liberals listened to this and said, “Good point!” And when die-hard conservatives watch their candidates do the same, they say, “Good point!” And when each watches the others’ candidates, they’re both appalled. (Though the media has tended to make us more sensitive to Republican negativity, since they always dwell on that as part of the unpleasantness of politics.) But it’s interesting, given the outright nasty tone of so much of the coverage of Palin, that they should fault her for coming out swinging. President Clinton coined the term, “The politics of personal destruction,” and I think it’s worth dusting that one off to describe the behavior of the press toward Palin this week. On a side note, I’m beginning to think that anono-Dan is actually a Republican, and he’s providing a parody of liberalism in order to make it look unpalatable. Much like Christian Cardall did with Aaron at Banner of Heaven. |
DKL, I am of the view that you should label Dan a troll and ban him. he sounds klike on of those crazies on Kos. Good summary so far. Not much more for me to add. |
So Obama goes on O’Reilly and states: Who is this new ObamaBush and what happened to change? Dan, where are you?! Explain this to me, because I was great with “hope” that Obama did not represent any of the above. I had a conversation with a co-worker who said she was advocating Obama because he represented change. I’m beginning to question that very much. Change as in Political party? As in president? Or as in skin tone of the President? Obama needs to shake himself up and get real. He really is turning into a fad. It feels like he is shell shocked. He’s been out-changed. |
McCain is supposed to accept the nomination in his typical Town-Hall style. Obama needs to jump on the town hall thing. I think it’s a powerful venue vs. an aristocratic ziggaraut. |
Wow. Obama did that? The question is whether we should believe this change is sincere or not. Further (since Democrats are all about experience and evidence) why should we trust him? I mean I think we all recognize George Bush’s judgment isn’t to be trusted and there was arguably evidence in 1999 of his judgment. Why shouldn’t we judge Obama’s comments on the surge as an indicator of how he views foreign policy. BTW – I believe Dan’s view on the surge is that it was only useful if it immediately led to full political reconciliation, which I always took him to interpret rather expansively. While there isn’t as much reconciliation as I’d like it seems clear there is some. More importantly we can pull out of Bagdad and Anbar right now and hand over control to Iraqi forces with relative peace. Does anyone really believe that would have happened had we listened to Obama? Even Democratic proponents of Obama said it would be a mess. They just thought it would be a mess no matter what so Obama’s solution was no worse. Anyway, Obama is mimicking McCain (even acquiescing to some drilling) simply because those are issues where McCain polls very well. He’s hoping to confuse matters. I don’t think even most Obama supporters believe he believes what he is saying. Don’t get me wrong. McCain has a legion of issues he has to deal with. (i.e. the economy) But let’s call a spade a spade here. |
DKL # 56–you are correct that with so many speakers, there was repetition of both points (low-paying job and torutre, respectively) at their conventions. I suppose these are the aspects of the candidates the speakers found admirable and, knowing the candidates themselves would not bring it up, mentioned it. I just think that the Republicans, who feel that McCain has SO much experience ought to have ample material of accomplishments, rather than repeating a horrific thing that was done to McCain. [PS--McCain DID NOT forgo college, but graduated from the Naval Academy in 1958, before serving. Many would argue that the military IS a career (as, indeed, it had been in the McCain family) and then went straight into politics as a career.] John Mansfield #58–I am sorry if you cannot identify service in Obama’s past, but I am positive the very clever Republican speech writers could have thought of a few ways to compliment the man. DKL #66–I am aware of the ratio requirements and they do not bother me. That said, I was involved in the local Obama campaign in 3 nearby CDs, and the delegates who went to Denver from here actually DID mirror the larger group of us who worked through the primary season. They were indeed about 50% African-American, evenly gendered, and a nice range of ages from a college student to a long-time Democratic organizer (I am not good at guessing ages, but I would guess he is in his 70s). I have no idea what the local Hillary delegates looked like–probably whiter. DKL #70–yes, I think I heard Obama say those things, but I do not believe he said them as part of his convention speech (am I totally spacing this? It has been a long week!) I certainly tired of the continual jokes about McCain’s houses (which many speakers, but not Obama, made as part of their speeches), although you must admit, they were based on a silly gaffe on McCain’s part. The main speakers, however, called McCain a hero, a friend, a reformer, a great public servant, etc. Maybe we could cynically call this lip service, but I think it was appropriate, and would have liked to see some sort of complimentary recognition from the RNC that Obama at least has sound motivation, even if they think every one of his policies is wacko. |
ESO, more than one speaker at the RNC also talked about how historic it was to have a black candidate. The “credit where credit is due” aspect of this is more a function of trying to keep up appearances than a reflection of virtue on the part of any candidate — that’s true on both sides. |
you’re a hoot Christopher, You tried to put me in my place, not by responding to what I wrote but by donning the classic academic superiority attitude (“do you know what deconstruction is? [I do! I do! I just took a class and know everything about it and it's obvious that you don't]) that is only too common in immature students still in school. Then you wrapped it in a veneer of condescension (“Uh, KLC) and tied it with a several bows of innocent questions (“are you aware…” “…did you really just suggest…”). Your simple questions got the in depth reply they deserved. And maybe you should look into recalibrating your sarcasm meter, I don’t think it’s working. |
ESO: McCain DID NOT forgo college, but graduated from the Naval Academy in 1958 Fair enough. He forewent graduate school. Graduate school was, for Obama, what gave him the high-earning potential that he forewent. And sure, the Navy is a career. Being a community organizer is also a career — it’s just not one that involves any risk. There are a lot of jobs that pay more than the Navy, and an admiral’s son isn’t without connections. |
On an altogether different note: Here’s a community organizer joke:
Jokes aside, we’re not making fun of community organizers. We’re making fun of Obama. Obama is the one who put “community organizer” on his resume — it was even in his bio flick. It must be one hellaciously shitty job, because apparently Obama viewed it as a huge sacrifice, and some Obama partisans seem to think it’s comparable to fighting gorillas in Vietnam or refusing to be freed from a prisoner of war camp when the release was simply because his father was an admiral. Look, if Democratic talking heads are going to make fun of Palin for being mayor, then anyone who suggests that the Republican talking heads aren’t entitled to go after pieces of Obama’s resume is either dishonest or totally stoned. So now they’re talking about how Palin alienated community organizers. There’s even some group, “Community Organizers against Palin.” How dumb is that. Community organizers get paid in local tax dollars, which makes them predominantly Democrats anyway. I wonder how many Mayors Obama alienated (since they’re elected, they’re is a more even distribution of Republicans and Democrats in their ranks). I think they should start a group called, “Mayors against Obama.” |
I’m no historian, but I would guess that Palin was the first Presidential ticket nominee to actively solicit the coveted parents-of-mentally-disabled-children demographic. |
I’m not sure community organizer involves no risks DKL. Indeed most such organizers don’t exactly make much money. It’s sort of like starting a band and thinking you’ll eck out a great living. I do agree that it was a big mistake for Obama to play this up. However in his base it is pretty important – just like some of the silly things they’ve played up with Palin are important to her base. I do worry, however, that it appears that she’s not really thought about many issues much. While I disagree with Obama greatly, I do think he’s considered most issues. I’m not at all convinced he’s portraying to the world how he thought about it though. (Contrast this to Reagan who, love him or hate him, was pretty upfront about his positions) Why McCain has a lot of experience is because of his past in the Senate and the fact he was in the military, which I don’t think can be underestimated. And unlike Bush Jr. this was the real deal. On the other hand he’s said some amazingly brain dead things about foreign policy – especially about Al Queda in Iran – that make me wonder just what is going on there. Not that Obama exactly excites me there either. |
Tom Ridge: The challenge of our times is to leave nothing to chance! Satan: Hey, that’s my line! arj: Tom Ridge is giving a very boring speech. |
who was suggesting Tom Ridge for VP? talk about dodging a bullet… Lindsey Graham was a bit over the top as well. usually better than that. maybe they’re just setting up Cindy to look good |
delaware, No doubt, Tom Ridge was a total dud. No sense of timing, no energy, just a goofy grin while waiting at the wrong moments for polite applause. |
KLC, seeing you get riled up over an “immature student still in school” has been enjoyable. Thank you. |
O.K. We need to deal with this “community organizer” bit directly. Democrats portray Obama as this noble soul who gave up a Wall Street job to help laid-off steel workers as a community organizer. What a crock of bull. Obama was hired by a group called ACORN. It stands for “Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now”. It was a group created in the early 1980s as a political action group. What did ACORN do? Essentially, organize protests. ACORN was the group that would get people together in front of the White House in the 1980s to claim that veterans were being thrown out on the streets. In realty, the homeless were primarily a result of similar groups efforts to discharge the mentally ill and chemically addicted from institutions. ACORN in the past few years has been heavily involved in registering people to vote. In the 2004 election, ACORN organizers were charged and convicted in key battleground states like Ohio with registering the dead, the mentally ill and others who should not be voting. Let me rephase that: They were engaged in vote fraud. Obama joined the ACORN family. His job was to organize protests against Reagan budget cuts in food stamps and other welfare programs. His role was not to work for strong schools, safe neighborhoods, or good jobs. His role was to get people to make signs, disrupt city meetings in Chicago and engage in other activities a hard left agenda. There is nothing wrong with community organizing. There is a problem with Mr. Obama’s extreme radicalism as first-evident in his association with ACORN. |
ESO, you’re asking for someone to praise Obama, so here’s what I like about him. Someone like a mayor or governor or president needs to be a leader for everyone, not just those who voted for him. President Bush is a divisive figure who leaves the half of the country who didn’t want him feeling like they can just go to hell. Al Gore and John Kerry gave off the same sense when they were only candidates, and would have made conservatives twice as alienated as they were when Clinton was in office. I believe Obama will accept the responsibility to be the president of all Americans, including those like me who disagree with him. |
I see no shame in placing “Community Organizer” on a resume. And they are killed in my city on a regular basis (home sweet home). I am not saying it is the same as being a POW. But I have personally known several former POWs and would not vote for one of them for president. I think we ought to focus on the things McCain has done in the last 30 years–Republicans should be able to find plenty of stuff there to taut. That was kind of a creepy wink Cindy just gave the camera! |
That’s the spirit, John! I nominate you to speak at the next RNC! Heck, they’d probably take you at the DNC, too. |
ESO, your defense of Obama in general strikes me as fairly unreflective, as though you actually believe that there’s some superior virtue that is embodied by your political candidate, and as though the policies being advocated by each candidate aren’t means that all seek the same end. For example, both parties want a stable, a peaceful middle east, a well educated citizenry, an increase in the standard of living of the disadvantaged, the best health care possible, the safest streets we can manage, an optimally clean environment. The policies advocated by the mainstream portions of both parties are merely means to an end. There’s nothing special about your candidate. There’s nothing special about my candidate. They advocate policies designed to get us to the same ends using boosterism, name calling, showmanship, hyperbole, sentimentalism, and even deception, distortion, and propaganda. This approach is justified by the importance of the ends that they both seek, because each party thinks that the policies of the other will hit very wide of the mark. Regarding community service, I live in Boston. There are community organizers here. They never get killed. Being a cop is much more dangerous, and fewer than one of them gets killed every year here. Can you provide figures to explicate what you mean by regular basis? Do you mean a couple a year, or one every few years? Furthermore, read comment #86. The value of Obama’s work is highly doubtful. Sounds to me like he forewent a high-ticket salary to become a political operative. |
ESO, Thanks! I happen to think I’d do a great job based on feedback from talks I’ve given at conferences and in church. However, my wife says I shouldn’t speak in public because I am unable to do so without touching my nose frequently. I am unaware of doing this but she insists that I’m doing it non-stop. As you can imagine it would be absolutely mortifying for my family to be thrust into the public spotlight with me unable to control myself in such a way, so I’d have to decline any invitations. |
PBS is showing protesters up in the balcony during the start of McCain’s speech. Probably more than is needed. |
compare the 2 conventions…one was about hope and the other is about doom. I vote for hope. |
These silly protestors are the kind of things Obama organized. Wow. Really important and productive. |
Ladybug, last week was all doom. Listening to them describe the state of our country might make you think that the USA is a third world country with an autocracy that murders its enemies and burdens allies and enemies alike with refugees from the ever present misery that is the USA. Listening to Obama, we got no substance, just a lecture on how government is supposed to work and a bunch of McCain insults. If that’s hope, then hope is the thing with a millstone around its neck. |
DKL, How much foreign policy experience did Reagan have before 1980? Would you say he did well with foreign policy issues during his two terms? If so, how did that happen with absolutely no previous experience? Wasn’t he an actor for many years? Didn’t he get into politics by giving more than one speech that excited people? Was not his greatest talent the ability to do just that – communicate ideas that inspired people? …remind you of anyone? |
CTJ, Reagan was governor of a state with a GDP larger than most large and prosperous 1st world nations, and fundamentally changed the way that state operated. Reagan had been writing editorials on foreign policy all during the 1970s, and Reagan campaigned against Carter’s Panama Canal treaty and the SALT II treaty. Obama communicates to the liberal base, because he tells them their special and explains to them how white men have victimized the world — he was for Reverend Wright before he was against him. When it comes to talking to real people, Obama has yet to prove that he appeals to anyone outside of this group, and the time is running out. Another way to measure experience is by the impact that they made. Would the US be any different if Senator Biden had never been elected to the Senate? Would our nation’s laws be any different in the last 3 years if Obama had never been elected to the Senate? Will history show that Illinois is different thanks to the legislative actions that Obama took as a state legislature? The answer to all of these is a resounding, “no.” By this measure of experience, the Democrats have fielded the least qualified candidates in 40 years. Like him or hate him, before he became president, Reagan made historical changes in California that had far a far reaching and lasting impact. Like him or hate him, if McCain hadn’t served in the Senate, our laws would be very different. Like her or hate her, Palin has made an historic difference in Alaska already, by routing the corrupt (Republican) political machine. So yeah, you’re right. I laugh at your comment. Oh well. |
So far tonight has been about how government is the problem and John McCain is going to get rid of it. That gives me hope, because I’m really feeling held back by government. |
McCain: We’re going to drill now! arJ: (waits several seconds, since “now” seemed impossible) arJ: Nope, still not drilling. |
I’m drilling, arj. I started just for you! |
arj, You’re already voting Obama, I’m guessing. |
nasamomdele, |
oh wow. that rocked. then they started playing that stupid music… |
Cindy and John each did a fine job in my opinion. I was actually surprised at how well Cindy did. Perhaps I’m just still dumbstruck by how poorly Tom Ridge did. I just hope Palin learned from the DNC and doesn’t do that strange pointing thing that Biden pulled. Oh yeah! She is however, doing her beauty pageant wave, which always strikes me as contrived. |
ah, Barracuda, that music’s more like it :-) |
Heart rocks, not so sure about Palin. |
Face it DKL, put Reagan’s pre-1980 experience on Obama and Republicans would still call him a light weight. Wrote some editorials in the 70′s? Are you telling me that qualifies? I think you’re better off sticking with this The policies advocated by the mainstream portions of both parties are merely means to an end. There’s nothing special about your candidate. There’s nothing special about my candidate. |
I heart Palin I heart Heart |
I don’t think Reagan really needed all that much foreign polict experience going up against Carter and all. |
Its true Tim. The Office of President doesn’t give you very much foreign policy experience….He would have been much better off writing editorials. |
Don’t be a moron, CTJ. I didn’t mean to imply that writing editorials for many years gave Reagan experience. I intend to indicate that his editorials made his views and the quality of his reasoning on foreign policy issues well known. We can’t say much about Obama’s views and the quality of his reasoning. In fact, if Obama’s debate performance is any indication, he’s fundamentally unprepared, making gaffe after gaffe — from saying that his reaction to being attacked would be to assemble his cabinet and review the options (Hillary answered this question “I’d retaliate.”), to saying that he’d unconditionally meet with any world leader at all (something that he’s backed off of now). Sure Reagan spoke nice and Obama speaks nice. Positing equivalence based on that is sheer stupidity. Jefferson Davis spoke nice, too, and he was a Democrat, so let’s say that Obama is the new Jefferson Davis. There’s nothing to face hear, CTJ. But you just keep hoping against hope that your candidate is more than the latest failed Democratic presidential candidate among the boring army of under-performers that has defined Democratic executive aspirations since 1950 (so much so, that they’ve only won 6 of the 15 elections since then). |
Anyone get a count on how many times McCain said the word “fight”? That’s the single biggest concern I have about him: that he will substantially expand our military and its operations. It really drained the energy out of his “I hate war” statement. Still, he’s a pretty impressive person and I’m glad he’s in the Senate. |
This Republican convention has not risen above the level of a shrill high school pep rally. The Democrat’s convention wasn’t all that great either (except for Bill’s speech), but this one seems like a bunch of half drunk jocks taunting the opposing team. |
Good job DKL. But I never said Obama was my candidate or that I’m a Democrat. I was simply looking for a response. |
Obama from the AP: “Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama said Thursday that the escalation of U.S. troops in Iraq, which he had opposed, has succeeded in reducing violence ‘beyond our wildest dreams.’” However, Obama said, ‘the argument was and continues to be: When are we going to turn over responsibility to the Iraqis for their own country? When are they going to resolve their political differences?’” I think it’s pretty obvious at this point, that turning over responsibility will happen regardless of who is the next president. |
BrianJ, That’s quite a stretch. I suppose “struggle” or “wrastle” would have been better choices of words. I will wrastle for America!- Jesse Ventura’s and/or Huck Finn’s future campaign slogan. All in all, I was impressed by both Cindy and John’s speeches. They were light on the attacks and heavy on heart. I think they are a good match to go against Barack and Michelle- a fair “fight” (sorry BrianJ) for President, I think. |
He had a weekly show where he spoke on foreign policy issues through the 70′s. They were collected a few years ago by George Shultz in a rather interesting book Reagan: In His Own Hand. I was very surprised at just how much experience in the issues he did have. Of course an Obama supporter will say Obama had the same level of experience (i.e. theoretical) but I’ve not seen indications of such in his books. Now if by experience we mean more hands on real world experience then no one other than Bush Sr. has had experience since Nixon. |
Tim, I agree. Anbar has already been turned over and Petraeus sounds like most of Bagdad is ready to be turned over. The problem is that just as Bush set up some ridiculous expectations Obama has done the same. If we don’t have the equivalent of a western European nation then it’s all a failure and we should have left. Given just how remarkable Petraeus’ successes have been I think the Democrats are really in a hard place with the very issue they thought would win them everything. If the economy picks up and gas prices continue down then their second issue, the economy, will also be lost. (Although expect the press to play willing dupes for the Democrats – how long have they been saying we were in a recession? A recession that never even occurred?) Don’t get me wrong. There are some remaining issues Obama is strong on. Especially the increasing loss of jobs that enabled some groups to be in the solid middle class whereas now they struggle in the lower middle class. (Say people who in the past could have gotten high paying jobs in manufacturing) The other issue is health care but frankly Obama is pretty conservative there. Democrats will obviously prefer Obama there but it’s not like he’s remotely solving the issue of health care or even attempting to. |
DKL, you made most of the same points about Reagan I did. I’d add in though that the Governor of California, even in the 60′s, tended to do a lot of travel for economic aims. As you said it’s larger than many countries. And California was undergoing huge growth at that time. (And let’s not forget about the issues of the Viet Nam war during that era) |
Skipping comments (it’s late and I just got off work), I loved Joe Lieberman’s speech. It sort of made me think twice about McCain. That and Sarah Palin. I love screwed up people. |
Now I have an idea why Obama is so anxious to gets the troops out of Iraq. Maybe he is hoping to redirect them to enforce some law and order in his old Democratic stronghold of South Chicago. |
DKL: Periodically I wonder … what is the correct past tense of the verb “forego”? Forewent? Foregoed? I’ve long been curious about this, but since DKL knows everything, I suppose it’s now settled. AB |
I have serious reservations about both candidates. If either one wins, I’ll be bracing myself for outcomes I don’t enjoy thinking about. I’ve never felt more conflicted about who to vote for. |
Clark — great point on false expectations re Iraq. If people are expecting post WWII Germany to emerge out of the rubble of post Gulf War II Iraq, then that really is insanity. |
“Cindy and John each did a fine job in my opinion.” I watched most of Cindy’s talk, and I was pretty creeped out. First of all, I was unimpressed when she said that she was looking for a good dad, and he was it. This floors me, because was clearly a crappy dad who was ignoring his first family while screwing her. Really, how can you trust a guy when you meet him that way? I guess the threat of losing out on her money, perhaps. It would have been more tactful and tasteful NOT to talk about their “courtship.” I understand that we can’t control who we love, but we can control whether our zipper stays zipped. If he really fell in love with her, the honorable thing to do would have been to seek a divorce BEFORE inviting her out for drinks the first time. Also, I guess I’d never seen her close up before, and hadn’t realized how much plastic surgery she had on her face. |
I liked McCain’s freight train ending. “Fight with me. Fight with me. Fight for what’s right for our country. Fight for the ideals and character of a free people. Fight for our children’s future. Fight for justice and opportunity for all.” I vote for McCain for captain of the Nephite army. |
I have serious reservations about both candidates. If either one wins, I’ll be bracing myself for outcomes I don’t enjoy thinking about. I’ve never felt more conflicted about who to vote for. I feel ya Dan. I’m starting to think that Hillary and Mitt were the better choices. I suppose anyone is better than W. |
Here’s Michelle Malkin echoing the previous comment regarding Obama’s days with ACORN. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/why_obamas_community_organizer.html Yep, pretty much exactly like Jesus. |
AB, Foregone is the past tense, I believe, though it exists only in the passive voice. Naismith, Cindy McCain creeps me out big time, but I found I was far less creeped out by her this time. She seemed rather normal. I appreciate your zeal in matters of chastity and fidelity, but maybe I’m desensitized to it, because I just don’t care in this situation. Years of Clinton had an effect. To me, the honorable thing to do would be to live a libertarian society where people pull their own weight, earn what they get, get no more than what they need, and voluntarily give the rest to those who have not. |
The point being that often our expectations are unrealistic. This post and the other related posts are interesting in that there is a clear distinction between McCain supporters, Swing Voters, and Obama supporters. It would be interesting to go back to the many posts for this election cycle and see who has more to say about the others’ party. As an independent ad swing voter, I am very interested. I have to say that the only reasons I’m not registered Republican is because of the party’s neglect of environmental activity in the past few years and the influence the evangelicals have in the party. To me, Bush has been his own animal- not representative of conservatives at all. Two items: DKL, I’m almost sure that you are Republican, and again, I have to say that you have stepped out of the party for a few days and generously provided very constructive and unbiased criticism of both parties’ conventions. I have not heard anyone else do that. Good work. |
“The last election, the mantra was ‘Beat Bush’.” That’s continues to be the mantra, and he’s not even running. |
Early broadcast ratings are in from last night and it appears that even McCain’s audience rivaled Obama’s. Cable numbers won’t be in for a few more hours. http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_tv_ratings_beat_obama_i.php This floors me. |
DKL–you are right that community organizers are not in the same danger league as police or POWs. To me, that is not the measure of a job. I would place their worth with other noble social functions like social workers, teachers, etc (not that they are all perfect). It is not the fear of loss of life that I value, but a capable person doing a less prestigious job than they could be doing. I would estimate about once annual deaths of community organizers–I don’t believe most of these are job related, just people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time in a city with a high murder rate. Unfortunate. I don’t believe we have discussed at length my personal support of Obama, but I would guess that most people who support the opposite candidate than you do might be labeled “unreflective.” I’ll live with it. I could live with a lot of things about a McCain presidency EXCEPT his war. He is just a supremely combative person and seems to have a very conflict-oriented world view. While that may win some people over, that is precisely my concern with him. Naismith–it is very interesting to me how people so often recreate their own families of origin. Cindy McCain’s father had also met and had a relationship with Cindy’s mother while married to another woman (he subsequently divorced the first woman and had a less than warm relationship with the child of that marriage). She got a husband just like her mother had. [DKL might be interested to know that Cindy's half sibling(s?) inherited 10 K from daddy while Cindy got hundreds of millions and she now does not even acknowledge their existence let alone "support" them in any way.] And what are these “western values” Cindy holds so dear? (I really want to know–manifest destiny?) If she had been from RI, would she boast of “eastern values”? RE: Obama’s jobs. I think people are conflating a few positions. His first work as an organizer was done between undergrad and grad work (3 years, maybe?) and then after law school he had that job with the she she civil rights firm. As best I can recall. I thought the intro film last night did McCain a disservice. Direct quote “the stars have aligned….” Really? Are we voting for the man because of the stars? They just should have had him come out and talk. |
ESO, now let’s hear something that you like about McCain, something from the most recent quarter century if possible. It shouldn’t be hard, because there are lots of things many Republicans hate about him, but the only thing I have heard Democrats acknowledge is his military service, which ended in 1981. |
Clark: I’d add in though that the Governor of California, even in the 60’s, tended to do a lot of travel for economic aims. As you said it’s larger than many countries. And California was undergoing huge growth at that time. Very true. Good point. Aaron Brown: Periodically I wonder … what is the correct past tense of the verb “foregoâ€? Forewent? Foregoed? I’ve long been curious about this, but since DKL knows everything, I suppose it’s now settled. I honestly don’t know. I chose “forewent” because the spell-checker was cool with it. Tim J: Early broadcast ratings are in from last night and it appears that even McCain’s audience rivaled Obama’s. Cable numbers won’t be in for a few more hours. It surprised me, too. I’m pretty sure the number of viewers wouldn’t have been that large if McCain had chose Ridge, Lieberman, Pawlenty, or Romney. ESO: but I would guess that most people who support the opposite candidate than you do might be labeled “unreflective.†I think that both my analysis and my dialogue with opposition belies that point. I pretty much engage people based on the approach they take. If they engage in rabid partisan jabs, I respond with rabid partisan jabs. People like arj or John Hamer, I engage very respectfully. I should add that I think that there are an awful lot of unreflective McCain supporters, and they bug me much more than unreflective Obama supporters. When I went to BYU, I called myself a libertarian because I didn’t want to be confused with all the mindless Republicans roaming the campus. ESO: I would place [community organizers'] worth with other noble social functions like social workers, teachers, etc (not that they are all perfect). Yeah. I kinda’ have a problem with teachers, too. Based on my personal experience growing up (if we can call it that), it took me a while to get to a point where I didn’t believe that most teachers were simply parasites on society. In my experience, teachers play a game with students, and if they play along, everything goes fine. Otherwise, heaven help you. I’ve seen this up close. I failed out of high school, and to this day, the meanest, most derisive things that have ever been said to me were said to me by teachers, many of whom were hailed by the community as great influences in a school system that sent more students to Ivy League colleges than any other in the US. The number one factor in determining a child’s educational success is the educational success of the parents. Teachers can have an impact, but let’s be honest — in most cases they don’t play a roll. I ended up educated (did quite well on college entrance exams) in spite of the school that gave me failing grades, not because of it. That said, my sister-in-law is a teacher, and I think the world of her. Best I can tell, nearly all of my childrens’ teachers seem to be absolutely terrific (either that or my kids are just playing the game). I’m quite certain that at least a few are extraordinary; my 6-year-old daughter’s kindergarten teacher last year could do anything, but she teaches kindergarteners. The entire class learned how to read(!). She loved that class so much that she still talks about her kindergarten teacher almost daily, though she just started the 1st grade. Even so, there was nothing noble about Obama’s “community organizer” stint. Best I can tell, it was basically an entry-level job for the Chicago political machine, as attested to by several journalists and editorialists, including this one. |
“DKL, I’m almost sure that you are Republican” ??? Ya think? |
nasamomdele, 117: What was a stretch? I’m not basing my concerns about McCain’s hawkishness on his one speech. I had those concerns before his speech. 131: “How does one solidify themselves into one party or the other so early in an election? Based on generally accepted party platforms? When one does dedicate oneself to a certain candidate/party, it seems to be an abandonment of good judgement.” Many of us, I’m guessing, have been following both of these candidates for a long time; i.e., well before any primaries or nominations. I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that everyone else was so quick. “DKL…you have stepped out of the party for a few days and generously provided very constructive and unbiased criticism of both parties’ conventions. I have not heard anyone else do that. Good work.” I concur that DKL has done a very good job, but I wouldn’t say that he holds a monopoly. |
ESO: McCain’s intro film was a stinker. It was disjointed, the narrator’s voice was…can’t think of the word—reminded me of the voice at the beginning of Walker Texas Ranger—, and then there were those silly phrases. I don’t remember “the stars have aligned” but I do remember the “perhaps God had more work for him to do.” (no, that’s not a direct quote; I can’t remember the exact words). McCain did a much, much better job of introducing himself than the film did. In fact, I think McCain’s introduction of McCain was far better than any of the other speakers managed—and that’s saying a lot. |
nasamomdele: DKL, I’m almost sure that you are Republican, and again, I have to say that you have stepped out of the party for a few days and generously provided very constructive and unbiased criticism of both parties’ conventions. I have not heard anyone else do that. Good work. BrianJ: I concur that DKL has done a very good job. Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad you’ve noticed and enjoyed. |
I’ll also agree the intro film wasn’t very good. I now wonder what Palin’s was going to be like. |
For the record that is my big concern (and that and his temper my concern back in 2000 – although then sadly the only other choice was Bush). His inexplicable and repeated ignorance of some basic foreign policy knowledge also scares the crap out of me. Finally his tendency to go with his gut just seems a repeat of Bush’s greatest weakness. But then there’s nearly an equal number of things in Obama that scare me. It’s amazing how often the folks nominated for President are so bad. This year worse than most. Even though I’m pretty conservative most years the Democrats manage one candidate who really excites me and who then gets clobbered in the primaries. Republicans though haven’t done anything since Bush Sr. lost to Clinton. (And my secret shame is I voted for Clinton that year – what was I thinking?) Seriously, has there been a single guy running who excited anyone here? |
John M–I really appreciate his efforts at campaign finance reform, although clearly the resulting bill is far from perfect. I admire his differences on immigration from the rest of his party. McCain’s principled stance on earmarks is also noteworthy, although his constituency has some real needs that he has failed to address because he eschews the whole earmark game. DKL–FX County really worked a number on you! I am so glad your children have had better school experiences, and I hope that holds. FX is the most “full of itself” school system I have ever encountered, but the one year I spent in it included some very positive experiences, along with some more ho-hum ones. I expect everyone has had some dud teachers, but personally, I have had far more excellent ones. I have also had some dud doctors, experienced some dud policing, and had plenty of dud politicians, cashiers, managers, bishops, receptionists, etc.–hard to write off a whole field based on some individuals. |
BrianJ–I think the narrator of the film was Fred Thompson. |
ESO—I kept thinking he sounded like Fred Thompson, but the delivery was terrible (in contrast to Thompson’s speech). Clark—”Seriously, has there been a single guy running who excited anyone here?” Do you mean exciting Republican candidates? |
After eight years of the annoying “chicken-hawk” attack I am very excited to support a candidate with a good military resume. The fact that both McCain and Palin currently have sons in the military goes a long way too. Regarding exciting candidates in general, I find Palin very exciting mainly due to her potential of being a gamechanger both for this election as well as for the entire political scene. We don’t know if she will play out that way or not, but I am very hopeful. |
Aluwid, I’m sure you meant “The fact that both McCain and Palin and Biden currently have sons in the military…” |
Brian, I was talking about what excited me about the Republican ticket, I didn’t say anything one way or another about the Democratic one. Given the subject, why did I need to? |
The narrator was Robert Duvall. |
I just have to chime in about McCain’s intro. video: it provoked a lot of laughter… not the good kind. First of all, the music was terrible (both its composition and production values). Did he have some intern score that film on a 1988 Casio keyboard? You can pull off almost anything on film if you put it to the right music (okay, I exaggerate, but you know what I mean). Even if you’re not the sort of person to notice the music, per se, you might have been more forgiving of the film’s other faults had the music been better (I realize this is a broad generalization, but I am convinced that there is some truth to it.) The score alone garners this movie a spot on Mystery Science Theater 3000… or maybe they could recycle it as pageant music. As for the really lame attempts at humor (and I paraphrase): - “He has been called hotheaded. [Visualize a still of McCain smacking himself in the face.] He has been called things that cannot be repeated.” [I didn't know that the McCain campaign read Dan the Spamâ„¢'s comments here. Now we know. If you're out there, McCain staffers, what were you thinking when you made this movie?] - “John McCain is a [quick cut to Mom McCain] momma’s boy.” Hilarious… not in a good way. Also, people sometimes get after Obama for thinking he’s the Second Coming, but at least his presentation didn’t say that the stars had aligned to preserve his life (or whatever) for the work he still had to do. Lame, lame, lame. Speaking of Mystery Science Theater 3000, I already have a joke for them to use in Cindy’s intro. video. At the part where she meets John McCain, and the voiceover says that she lied about her age, something like “She was 24; she told him she was 26.” Here, our favorite robot friends could add “He was married; he told her he was not.” (Disclaimer: Maybe she knew he was married at the time, I don’t know, I just thought it would be funny.) I know someone already mentioned this (I’m too lazy to go back and see who it was), but I was also a little put off by all of the “John McCain is a great husband, father, etc.” business. Sure, I concede that all the POW stuff could really screw up your marriage, I know he’s accepted responsibility for everything, he may have changed for the better after marrying Cindy, and I’m not saying that the circumstances under which his first marriage ended need to be rehashed or anything, but it all seemed a little disingenuous to me to speak of him as if he were such a perfect family man. It let an elephant into the room that otherwise wouldn’t have been there. Imagine trying to say those things about Bill Clinton, even twenty years after the fact… it’s just a little weird. That said, I thought his speech was better than I expected. Too bad his audio-visual team isn’t as good as Obama’s. |
11 on the unintentional comedy scale. |
The primary narrator of the McCain biographical intro was Robert Davi. The voiceover in the dark that introduced McCain was Fred Thompson. |
btw, I’ll have a post up analyzing the actual speech this evening. |
I am of the view that the McCain poll bump is about manifest itself by Monday next week. The leading indicators are starting to manifest themselves in the Polls already. The big question is how big will the bump be? A week or two after the convention pres races tend stabilize and the polls do not move much. Right now the Palin pick looks like a brilliant move. (this will change if she starts making serious gaffes) She fired up the base, reached out to women, and allows Mccain to be McCain because she shored up the base so well. |
In regard to coverage, Tim Russert’s unfortunate passing has left quite a big void on NBC. I actually like Chuck Todd, he seems to get it, but they don’t really utilize him very well. And I don’t understand how MSNBC thinks Pat Buchanan gives accurate perspective from the Right. It’s the same as Fox News using Alan Colmes to put forth an becoming pundit to represent the Left. CNN has appeared fairly balanced but I’m not really fond of the personalites, of which there are far too many. |
Tim J, people like Alan Colmes and Sean Hannity aren’t pundits. They’re radio/tv personalities that advocate political positions. Their show isn’t the same as other argumentative shows like Crossfire or The Capital Gang or the roundtable part of This Week or Fox News Sunday, because these shows actually employ(ed) pundits and journalists. The liberals on Fox are people like Juan Williams and Mara Liasson, who are bona fide liberals, and Mort Kondrake and Nina Easton, who are bona-fide moderates, though Mort leans more Democratic than Nina (back in the very late 80s or early 90s, he was more liberal than he is now, fitting in nicely with the hawkish Democrats who are no more) I think that CNN does a passable job, but there are way too many people, and the interview style doesn’t moderate them strongly enough. Blitzer and Cooper both ask reasonably good questions, but they err too much on the side of letting the opinion-pushers have it their way (perhaps to avoid turning their show into a Hardball style debacle). You’re right about Pat Buchanan. He stopped representing conservatives some time in the 80s, when he ditched free trade, started favoring a corporatist approach to the economy, and embraced isolationism. It is, however, a category mistake to compare Buchanan to Colmes, because Buchanan is a bona fide pundit with a real background in TV commentary and politics, however objectionable his opinions may be. MSNBC is a bit of a joke all the way around and in too many ways to accurately describe. Even so, it’s worth pointing out that too many of their shows are just circuses; the depth of their news-persons is uneven at best and too many of them are out of their league when covering serious political stories; and they sometimes transparently advocate political causes while pretending that they’re doing news. Indeed, watching the contrast between the MSNBC regulars and a real, professional journalist like Tom Brokaw (who makes appearances) is almost jarring. One gets the feeling that Brokaw thinks so, too. In the following exchange, Brokaw is pretty obviously talking down to Keith Olberman:
ouch. |
I agree with your analyis, but to my greater point, Fox News uses Colmes to represent the “balanced view” to go against their obvious right leanings. And this is the same reason Buchanan was chosen by MSNBC. Having Olbermann in the anchor chair is a travesty. He himself doesn’t bother me and I wouldn’t mind him being on a panel of sorts, but his bias is pretty obvious. It would be the equivalent of O’Reilly manning FNC’s coverage. |
Tim J, I don’t think it’s quite fair to talk about O’Reilly “manning” FNC’s convention coverage. They had O’Reilly’s show on during the conventions when the minor speakers were on, and when one of them was deemed worth watching, they showed the speech (they skipped Romney, for example). When the keynote speakers and the main speakers for the night came on, Brit Hume took over with his panel + Chris Wallace. I think that Brit Hume is among the more intelligent anchors in broadcast news in the past few decades, and Chris Wallace is very good as well. On the liberal side, Juan Williams and Mara Liasson are among the more experienced and well spoken political journalists on TV — they certainly compare favorably with the A-teams used on the Sunday morning shows. On the conservative side, the only real heavy-hitter they have is Charles Krauthammer. I’ve never been terribly impressed with Freddy “The Beagle” Barnes. Bill Crystal is only intermittently interesting. |
MesSNBC has truly become a parody of itself. Olbermann chairing coverage – now that is beyond belief |
Aluwid, |
This just in from the Drudge Report on Kieth Olbermann:
That proves that the marketplace works! (Well, it does as long as you ignore that the marketplace put him there in the first place and kept him there far too long…) |
I don’t mind Mathews as much as others. He at least has the ability to appear candid. I don’t really think Gregory brings much to the table. But Olberman not participating is a plus. Again, huge hole left by Russert. |
I think one of my relatives challenged one of those douche bags to a duel. |