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It is an odd argument that lays out a very convincing argument that something has fatally wounded another, and then based on that concluding that that something has “blatant bias in favor” of the victim. Another way to look at your argument structure is basically: (a) the media has liberal/Democratic bias But from my perspective (b) is NOT a surprise, it is in fact completely predictable, because (a) is just not true only a silly Republican myth, and second the media’s fixation on the fluff constantly hurts Democrats. I forget who, but someone well said that the media doesn’t have a liberal bias, they have a bias towards the stupid (ahem, jokes about the equality of those two things aside…). This stupid bias isn’t inherently partisan, but to the extend that OJ and Britney and pregnant governor’s daughters blocks out coverage of real facts and issues (economy, war, etc), they consistently hurt Democrats because all those things favor electing Democrats this year and most years. Actual Democratic powers-that-be, and observers like myself, were dismayed from day 1 with the media handling of Palin. We knew it would backfire and we knew it was distracting both from substantive problems with Palin’s record and larger world news. That these dismayed Democratic powers-that-be couldn’t stop the media train’s self-momentum just speaks, again, to the fact that media is NOT beholden to them. |
Hm, a bunch of those sentences came out rather mangled…hopefully the meaning is still discernable. |
DKL, brilliant as usual. sister blah 2, We recently had a fresh new face in the political arena. One who rallied a large base of supporters while naysayers (and political oppenents) pointed to his inexperience. If the media is merely biased toward the stupid, why was their coverage of Obama so dissimilar to their coverage of Palin? It is a bit surprising that you call media bias a silly Republican myth in the face of what DKL demonstrated in the post. Will you stand up and defend the news worthiness of three front page stories on Palin, all negative and one leading to a retraction? If not, your charge of it being a silly Republican myth is falling a bit flat. |
Where did I defend that? My comment was an indictment of the media’s very poor performance. There are reasons other than “liberal bias” that account for the negativity. It has more to do with bragging rights about being first to break a story, which is the way the media decides who is cool in their little club. |
I think the media’s real bias is for DRAMA. Obama was a better story than his contenders in the primary, so the press was very enthusiastic about covering him (and not always in a complimentary manner). Of the four currently in this race, Palin is definitely the unmined territory–that is why she has had an insane amount of coverage. It is true that journalists are sometimes wrong. Some may even be lazy or biased. The press is, after all, a free market–read what you deem worthy and forget the rest. |
I’ve heard “vetting” enough in the last couple weeks that I will be thoroughly sick of the word and the concept for several years. Reading about “vetting” is now like listening to the Oakridge Boys sing “Elvira.” |
Here’s a link to a Rassumussen poll. There is the perception in the electorate that the mainstream media is favoring Obama. |
Isn’t this exactly what Palin’s nomination was intended to do: shift the focus away from Obama? Expertly played. “the media’s blatant bias…” I know what you mean, but it would be more accurate to say “some media’s….” It’s not like all news outlets have a liberal bias. Speaking of which, a question I just thought of: Do the political biases of media outlets correlate with the political biases of the cities in which they live? For example, if all radio and news stations were headquartered in New York—a decidedly blue state—shouldn’t we expect their news to have a blue tint? (Not that that makes bias excusable in a profession that should have none.) |
I think I’m a Republican. Because if Palin were a Democrat, there’s a lot about her that would bother me that doesn’t seem to bother me at the moment. I wonder if others out there are constantly finding out what they really think in this way. On the other hand, the media has been terribly biased toward Obama from day one. I think another proof of the hypocrisy of the left is that no womens groups are speaking up for Palin. Although I did see Geraldine Ferraro on one of the morning shows the other day and she’s livid at the way Palin’s being treated. David, I think this looks awesome and I intend to study it more after I get off work. Thanks for doing your homework. |
John Mansfield, that is the greatest analogy. I plan on using it and crediting you frequently. “oohm papa ooohm papa moow moow!” |
“I think another proof of the hypocrisy of the left is that no womens groups are speaking up for Palin” annegb–I haven’t really been listening for it, but I have heard both Ferraro and Clinton surrogates speak out in support of Palin. What “womens groups” are you looking for? Is it fair to expect that some “womens groups” might not feel particularly supportive of a female politician they feel is less women friendly on issues than male politicians in the same race? |
ESO, It’s true- Hillary refuses to say anything bad about Palin. |
Watching the backlash is just incredible. Incredible because it was predicted and they media continued onward. The last straw for me was the “funding cut for pregnant teens” story. The most obvious question to anyone reading that was “what was the budget in 2007?”. It’s no surprise the story unraveled so quickly. While Obama has attempted to distance himself from the attacks, he has certainly been hurt. According to RCP averages: Obama seen as favorable: 55.7% There’s not a huge difference there, but the gap was FAR wider than it was a couple weeks ago. |
sb2 (#4), I understand that you were not saying the media did a great job, but by calling liberal media bias a “silly Republican myth” you are making a defense of sorts, not from the accusation of the media doing a terrible job, but from the accusation of their being biased against Palin on account of her being a Republican. But, my point in #3 is that “liberal bias” fits the evidence a lot better than “stupid bias” (which you suggested). It has more to do with bragging rights about being first to break a story, which is the way the media decides who is cool in their little club. Again, the problem is that there are all kinds of stories to break about Obama and they don’t seem to be falling over themselves with unresearched attack articles in order to break the negative stories about Obama. |
“has more to do with bragging rights about being first to break a story” There is a bit of truth to this especially now that blogging has become more mainstream. The worst thing a media member would have to do, is cite their source as a blog. But, yeah, I agree with Jacob J. There are a ton of Obama stories out there that could be written. The press basically ignored the Rezko story until Clinton brought it up during one of the debates and was forced to give some backstory. |
Nice summary, DKL. You missed a few, though. (Though admittedly, some of these were in the mainstream media, some were in liberal blogs, and some were repeated by the mainstream media after being first raised by liberal blogs.) * Palin banned a whole bunch of books from the public library while mayor of Wasilla and fired the librarian. (A little fact checking reveals that no books were banned and that the librarian continues on in her job to this day.) * Palin is a member of an extremist right-wing fundamentalist church. (In fact, Palin was born Catholic, raised in a relatively mainstream Assemblies of God Church and in 2002 started attending a non-denominational Bible fellowship church.) * Palin believes that Creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools. (Palin’s actual position is that teachers should be allowed to discuss creationism if it is brought up during a lesson on evolution, but has never advocated a creationist curriculum.) * Palin cut funding for “special needs” children by 62%. (In fact, funding for “special needs” students was increased by about 300% under Governor Palin.) * Palin lied about putting the governor’s private jet on eBay. (Palin did put the jet on eBay, then, when it didn’t generate acceptable bids, sold the jet through a private broker for a higher price–which was the responsible thing to do.) * Palin’s husband is an agent of Big Oil. (He’s a facilities manager–hardly a key player–in a North Shore oil rig, a union member, a commercial fisherman, as well as someone who races snowmobiles. In reality, Palin outflanked Big Oil by putting a plan to build a natural gas pipeline to Alaska without the approval or control of the three biggest players, Exxon, BP and Phillips-Conoco.) There are more that I’m forgetting too. In short, nearly every attack against Palin has turned out to be less than the sum of its parts. A lot of this seems to be based on the press being either eager to report about something negative and/or too lazy to do any actual journalism and therefore willing to rely on unsubstantiated attacks in liberal blogs. |
sister blah 2: It is an odd argument that lays out a very convincing argument that something has fatally wounded another, and then based on that concluding that that something has “blatant bias in favor” of the victim. I’m pretty sure that not what I’m arguing. In fact, I don’t make an explicit argument, and I’m not sure who you think is fatally wounded, but I certainly don’t imply that anyone has been. To recapitulate, I say that the media attacks on Palin have backfired and hurt Obama buy helping Palin in two ways: 1. They increased viewing of her convention speech. Her convention speech was quite good, and that increased viewership of McCain’s speech. (this isn’t an argument, but I believe it is an inarguable assertion). I honestly don’t see anything controversial about this, and I’m not exactly sure what part of it you’re taking issue with. And isn’t that quote by Chesterton a great one? |
It was Obama I was saying had been (potentially) fatally wounded. I realize you aren’t claiming it’s over, and neither am I, but that was the reference.
Ah, ok, here in this sentence is a nice example of what I am taking issue with: you use the word “backfire.” That implies a person A intending to do harm to person B, but instead it “backfires” and A is wounded. Here A = media and B = Palin. But the media hasn’t been harmed here (other than renewing people’s hatred of it, but that’s run of the mill). Obama has been wounded. So it’s not much of a “backfire” unless you are implicitly assuming that Obama = media, or that they have the same interest, i.e. “liberal bias” or what have you. I reject this implicit assumption, but I believe it is present in your post. |
But the media hasn’t been harmed here I disagree, I think the media is getting hurt badly by this and other stuff like it. The Rasmussen poll bbell linked to above (fixed link here) is evidence of this. NYT circulation is another evidence. |
By the way SB2, I get your point about DKL’s argument pointing things back to Obama rather than the media and thus my #19 is not really a response to your point in #18, but just a reaction to that one statement out of its context in your argument. |
Democrats and media attack Palin? As if they were working in collusion. The media is pathetic. I’ll give Republicans one thing, they sure know how to make the media cower to their every demand. Pathetic wimps. Make that most Democrats too, especially ones in the Senate. |
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Looks like Alaskan news organizations don’t kowtow to the Republican demands. At least they can tell the truth. My how the national media have fallen! To allow Republicans to lie with impunity to our fine nation, to show Americans such disregard, such an insulting manner to our intelligence. What’s worse, enough Americans don’t care that they are being lied to. Take DKL. He loves this crap. He loves being lied to by his party. He’s all for it. It’s amazing. Meanwhile, McCain gets away with more lies and distortions. Look at this link. And that hapless cowardly media does not call him out on it. They are a disgrace to our country, as is the Republican party. |
Greg,
Let’s just clear up some of this distortion here. Palin did indeed cut funding for special needs children. It wasn’t Governor Palin that increased the original funds. That was the state legislature. They felt that a larger amount was needed. Governor Palin disagreed, and with a line-item veto, personally cut the funding. Don’t give her the credit for the increase when she did NOT increase. She DECREASED it. |
#20–Understood. Dead-tree publications and traditional media in general are certainly in trouble. Unfortunately, their reaction to being in trouble seems to me to exacerbate the problem–they try to pump up ratings with salacious, silly, DRAMA type stuff and even if it works in the short run, it is causing people to lose respect and tune out in the long run. |
The liberal media. Hilarious. The media reports whatever will make them money. Another story about Iraq will not make them money, people are burned out. Stories that will make them money include the following People showing their vagina when they get out of a car People possibly dying in a hurricane People having quadruplets A Vice-presidential candidate that nobody knows and is a milf (gilf? whatever) Then if the candidate is rushed away to study instead of making the rounds on talk shows and news programs, you’ve just added to the mystique, and the media will keep making up whatever keeps her name on the air. It’s all about money, not the media being liberal. |
“Is it fair to rush to print with incorrect facts and inadequate sources? Dan Rather lost his job for doing just that.” Not to threadjack, but Dan Rather lost his job for inadequate sources alone. There are a lot of fairminded people who think he had his facts right from the beginning, but that his evidence was lacking, and that he should have shored those up before going on air with the story. |
right on, jjohnsen |
The media reports whatever will make them money. Of course it is true that media outlets want to make money. However, in this context it is put forward as a counter argument to claims of political bias. Someone claims that the media exhibits a liberal bias and there is always someone else to pop up and say that the media are just whores (i.e. not biased). I wonder if there is a way to test this hypothesis. Any suggestions? If they keep beating the drum of the same story even though it is not popular, does this defeat the hypothesis? |
This is one of the things that has always disgusted me about the Democratic Party. People ask for reductions in increases in spending, and Democrats inevitably label those as “cuts” that prove that the Republican Party hates your grandma. |
I agree, Dan. Reductions in the increase of spending are not exactly “spending cuts”, any more than failing to continuously cut taxes (or to make permanent some arbitrary previous tax cut) is “wanting to raise taxes”. However, there is the matter of inflation. Many programs are indexed to inflation so that their funding goes up every year, just to be able to continue with the status quo of what they are providing. So depending on what we are talking about, a cut in the increase of spending could have the effect of contracting those programs. |
Anybody who seriously believes that there is no media bias favoring the Democrats have never read this. Case closed |
This is extreme liberal writing 101. It’s the Kos Conspiracy methodology: take a bit of fact and connect it to Sasquatch, Bush, Oil, and Republicans. I blame X-Files, though I often enjoyed the show. I blame X-Files and Jerry Bruckheimer movies. |
Spam Dan (#23)- You’re getting your talking points mixed up. What you said is accurate (sort of) with regard to the teen pregnancy program, but not with regards to special needs students in Alaska public schoools. This article by Fact Check in Newsweek should clear up the difference for you. |
Jacob J: “that the media are just whores (i.e. not biased)” LOL! Something about putting a positive “spin” on being a whore. Very funny. |
this “lipstick on a pig, still a pig” will backfire… |
I think I’m a Republican. Because if Palin were a Democrat, there’s a lot about her that would bother me that doesn’t seem to bother me at the moment. I wonder if others out there are constantly finding out what they really think in this way. YES annegb YES! I assume you’ve all seen this but what the hell…. |
To view media bias in it’s purest form you guys realy need to watch the difference between CNN’s docs on the two nominees “Obama Revealed” and “McCain Revealed”. It’s fairly comical. |
sarahcuda,
Huh, one has to wonder why it didn’t backfire when McCain said the same thing about Mrs. Clinton… IOIYAR (It’s Okay If You Are Republican) |
Greg,
Well, I read that link you provide and I read that she SIGNED a piece of legislation increasing the funds. The thing is that, this is exactly the same as the teen pregnancy program. The state legislature is the entity that increased the funds, not the Governor. It seems I’m right, Greg. |
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So McCain can call Hillary Clinton a pig, but Barack Obama cannot call Sarah Palin a pig. Of course neither were really calling the two women pigs, but the McCain campaign is saying that Obama was calling Mrs. Palin a pig with that phrase. If that’s the case, then McCain owes Mrs. Clinton an apology for calling her a pig late last year. Surely Mr. McCain, a man of honor, will respect the women of America and apologize to Mrs. Clinton. |
Then again, Mr. McCain has called even his own wife a far worse name, a four letter word that starts with the letter “c”. But it’s okay. It’s John McCain. It’s normal for him. Or he’s an old codger. It’s normal for him to denigrate women. He’s part of that old guard of men, you know, the ones who cheat on their not so pretty wives with far more beautiful blonde heiresses. It’s such a normal part of who he is that no one questions if he were to call a woman a pig. But a young, shall we say “uppity” black man calling a white woman a pig…well, we can’t have none of that. |
Mumiller doesn’t disclose the fact that one named source is an outspoken Obama supporter and another is a political enemy of Palin. She distorts the roll of McCain’s press team in Alaska by claiming that it is there to “look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background.” And Mumiller never spoke to Arthur Culvahouse, the veteran DC attorney who handled the vetting. The paragraph in question in the article: “Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.” What is she distorting about the role of Mr. McCain’s aides in Alaska? They obviously went there after the fact. What were they doing if not gathering additional information about Palin? The day before Mumiller’s The New York Times article appeared on newstands, the AP released a thorough article on the vetting process that actually did interview Arthur Culvahouse. The AP article reaches conclusions far different than Mumiller’s. Evidently, Mumiller didn’t see it. Which conclusions were those? “People familiar with the process said Ms. Palin had responded to a standard form with more than 70 questions. Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.” It’s pretty clear at this point that Mumiller rushed to press with incomplete information without even asking Culvahouse or the Alaska First party about the details and without checking other news sources. She did get those two parts wrong but the rest of the story appears to be factually correct. It appears that you mainly take issue with the facts of the article. Is it fair to ask about the vetting? Sure. Is it fair to rush to print with incorrect facts and inadequate sources? Dan Rather lost his job for doing just that. The Times issued a correction about the Alaska First party. Everything else in the article was factually correct. Confirmation bias by the one critiquing? |
Jon in Austin: They obviously went there after the fact. What were they doing if not gathering additional information about Palin? The team was sent there to deal with the deluge of reporters sent there by news outlets. The chronology was like this: Friday: Palin gets nominated; McCain dispatches media team to deal with reporters rushing to Alaska. Saturday - Sunday: liberal blogs begin advancing a rumor that Trig is Bristol’s son, and Palin is covering up for her daughter by pretending that Trig is her son. Monday: McCain campaign attempts to scuttle this rumor by releasing information on Bristol’s current pregnancy, because its timeline precludes Bristol giving birth to Trig. Tuesday: The New York Times publishes article saying that McCain’s media team was a vetting team, questioning whether key information was missed in the vetting process, and burying the mention tat the McCain campaign released the information on Bristol’s pregnancy deep in the story. As the chronology indicates (and the AP piece indicates), there is no vetting problem. The vetting issue was invented out of whole cloth by journalists in order to attack the McCain campaign. Jon in Austion: She did get those two parts wrong but the rest of the story appears to be factually correct. It appears that you mainly take issue with the facts of the article. First, reading what Mumiller wrote in The New York Times wouldn’t give the reader the slightest idea about the real timeline and context of events. Even if I concede that the facts are, strictly speaking, not false, this is a superfine brand of “factually correct” which removen the facts so far from their context that it obscures the truth more than it illuminates it. Second, the two pieces of information you concede were incorrect both just happened to be defamatory accusations against Palin and the McCain campaign. How many times has The New York Times mistakenly said flattering things about Palin? Third, any of the articles might have started the article: “The McCain campaign disproved allegations by left-leaning political bloggers by releasing medical information about Palin’s daughter, Bristol. “[quote from the McCain announcement of Bristol's pregnancy here]” wrote Palin, in a letter to news media. Left-leaning bloggers had alleged over the weekend that Palin’s son Trig was born to Bristol, and Bristol’s current pregnancy makes that impossible.” Those are the facts, stated fairly. Face it: Mumiller seized on the pregnancy story and a few other incomplete and incorrect pieces of information in order to write a hatchet job. Jon in Austin: Confirmation bias by the one critiquing? No. It’s confirmation bias by you, the one writing apologetics. I wouldn’t even wipe my ass with The New Times. |
Please, it’s Elizabeth Bumiller. Let’s at least get the facts straight. Who could forget that four years ago she won the Wimblehack competition for the worst journalist of the campaign: |
Sister Blah 2: I reject this implicit assumption [that the media has a bias toward Obama], but I believe it is present in your post. That’s not implicit. It’s explicit. I site and analyze examples to provide evidence that there is bias. Jacob J, Thanks for the kind words. |
Sorry, Elisabeth |
Bill: Please, it’s Elizabeth Bumiller. I’m genuinely sorry if I misspelled her name. I honestly don’t know whether it’s “Elizabeth” or “Elisabeth,” and I’m happy to use whichever is correct. I used “Elisabeth,” because it’s the spelling used in the byline of the story as it appears online, but I should know better than to believe everything I read in The New York Times. |
ESO: I think the media’s real bias is for DRAMA. This is altogether beside the point. Even if I concede your point and call it DRAMA, the press’s bias determines the content of the DRAMA. Hatchet jobs on Obama and hagiographies on Palin are no less DRAMAtic than what we’ve seen; viz., hagiographies on Obama and hatchet jobs on Palin. The reason the press prefers the latter DRAMA over the former DRAMA is bias. This article supports the part about Palin hatchet jobs with 100-percent-guaranteed-or-your-money-back, irrefutable-and-undeniable, rock-solid, go-to-jail-go-directly-to-jail-do-not-pass-go-do-not-collect-200-dollars evidence — and that’s powerful evidence! ESO: Obama was a better story than his contenders in the primary, so the press was very enthusiastic about covering him (and not always in a complimentary manner). Of the four currently in this race, Palin is definitely the unmined territory–that is why she has had an insane amount of coverage. Saying that Obama’s was not always covered “in a complimentary manner” is like saying that Palin’s was not always covered in a defamatory manner. There’s nothing about Obama that makes it dramatic to praise him rather than tear him down. And there’s nothing about Palin that makes it especially dramatic to tear her down rather than to praise her. I agree that there’s been an insane amount of coverage. Even Obama and Biden are covering Palin. Surely a misstep if the person they want to beat is named McCain. ESO: I haven’t really been listening for it, but I have heard both Ferraro and Clinton surrogates speak out in support of Palin. Ferraro is completely post-political and quite candid. I think that she resents the fact that history has thrown her under the bus. The conventional wisdom was that she was a weak candidate, with many people reflexively attributing her presence on the ticket as a reason the Mondale campaign went into the toilet. The truth is that she was a reasonably good candidate. There have been better, sure, but that’s not the point. Mondale himself was the worst candidates that the Democrats fielded in more than 2 decades — worse than McGovern, worse than Stevenson. Farraro is also criticized for not doing great in her debate against George H. W. Bush. I don’t think that she won the debate, but she did at least as well against him as Lieberman did against Cheney in 2000. I suspect that she’s genuinely excited for Palin and her opportunity to make good on the promise that the Democrats tried to make in 1984. Hillary, on the other hand, is an exceptionally shrewd politician with incredible self-discipline (can anyone name a single major gaffe that she committed during her entire primary run?) She does very little in public unless its calculated. The reason women’s organizations like NOW and feminists like Gloria Steinham are saying hateful things about Palin is that women’s organizations are simply lobbyists for liberal causes sought after by liberal white women. Things haven’t changed a lot since bell hooks wrote Ain’t I a Woman?. What the media calls “women’s issues” is just the white-folk part Democratic platform with a different name. |
bbell, thanks for the link to that poll. BrianJ: if all radio and news stations were headquartered in New York—a decidedly blue state—shouldn’t we expect their news to have a blue tint? The DC Metro area is home to The Washington Post. This area is heavily Democratic in Maryland and most parts of southern Maryland, and fairly Republican in Northern Virginia (with a few exceptions like Reston or Alexandria). The entire area outside of DC is generally nowhere near as liberal as New York City, and DC itself is quite small. There’s no accounting for the bias of The Washington Post. Furthermore, The New York Times claims to be the paper of record in the USA and has a national circulation. And The Wall Street Journal tends conservative, and it’s a New York paper. annegb, thanks for the kind words. I’m glad that you find this helpful, and I’m very proud to hear you declare yourself to be a Republican! BTD Greg, thanks for the additional items. |
Nasamomdele: This is extreme liberal writing 101. That’s ad hominem 101. If you have an issue with the article, please explain it. You don’t take issues with the actual instances of distortion that I identify (as Jon in Austin attempts to do). You simply label it as extreme, mention Sasquatch, and move on. |
46 was the correction of my mistake in 44. |
No worries, Bill. Your correction must have posted while I was writing my response. I was pleased to get your correction #44, because it gave me an excuse say, “I should know better than to believe everything I read in the The New York Times.” |
old NYT motto: All the News That’s Fit To Print new NYT motto: All the News That Fits (Our Agenda), We’ll Print I unsubscribed long ago. |
My correction in 44 was of your mistake, not the NYT’s. Although every intelligent reader knows not to believe everything they read regardless of the sources, your contempt for the NYT was obviously not bred by familiarity. |
The Republicans want to win by distortions and lies. What a sad lot. And as we see from DKL, most Republicans enjoy the distortions and lies. They are so blinded by partisan rage that they really do not care where the truth lies anymore. |
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A Republican strategist:
That’s their strategy. Lies and distortions. “Little facts” don’t matter. Who cares that Sarah Palin’s actions against her brother in law amounted to what one judge called a form of child abuse. Who cares that Sarah Palin continues to lie to America about her support for the bridge to nowhere. Those are mere “little facts.” According to a Republican strategist, the more important aspect is that Americans rally behind the false creature that Republicans have created with Sarah Palin. She is a “reformer” when she isn’t. She “fights pork” when she doesn’t. She’ll bring “change” when she really won’t. How can ANYONE back this kind of sleazy lies? Because that’s what it is. Lies. At their heart is one big lie, and it is directed at you, America. Do you really want to fall to another lie again? Can you not see? |
can anyone name a single major gaffe that [HRC] committed during her entire primary run? DKL–you’ve got to be kidding! I agree she is often shrewd and currently in self-preservation mode. I understand why she would never get involved in criticizing Palin (although I think there are plenty of valid things to question), but she is hardly without flaw, even on the campaign trail! |
ESO, I spill that much ink responding to you and you take issue with a compliment that I pay Hillary clinton for being a polished campaigner? Bill, I get it now. You’re talking about her last name. You were saying it’s Elisabeth Bumiller, when I spelled it Elisabeth Mumiller. Only the first time you corrected me, you got it wrong yourself, by saying Elizabeth Bumiller. Then I try to act all gracious and joke around with you, but you’re too caught up in struggling to preserve your gotcha moment that you can’t snap out of it. That’s priceless! You act all righteous and say, “Get your facts straight,” and then prove to have made a total ass out of yourself because your own purported correction is equally flawed. Let me explain something with you: If all Mumiller had done was to misspell Palin’s name, I wouldn’t be complaining. I say that as someone who’s own last name is misspelled fairly often. Bill: your contempt for the NYT was obviously not bred by familiarity. Great point — for an idiot. I read the Boston Globe, too (I live in Boston), but I’m at a loss to name a single major reporter for it. |
DKL–sorry to disappoint. Take my lack of response as a lack of disagreement. What you said about Ferraro is fair enough (not that I totally agree, just that it is a valid opinion) and I just think we will have to agree to disagree on the media bias. (feel free not to respond) |
ESO: (feel free not to respond) Sure thing. |
Rep. Cohen (D-Tennessee): “Barack Obama was a community organizer like Jesus.” Never cease to amaze. |
Tim J, that’s actually kind of a fruitful comparison. One could also say that Obama is going after Palin like Jesus went after the Jews, and with just as little just cause. |
Obama is right on. But will Americans listen? Or do most Americans prefer the sleaze they get from John McCain. We have a choice between a generally honorable man to lead us (Barack Obama) or one who has given up all his honor and integrity (John McCain). Who do you want representing you, America? DKL
You show how stupid you really are. Pontius Pilate was not Jewish. If Obama was Jesus and Palin was Pilate, and Obama was going after Palin, then Jesus would be going after Pilate. Pilate was Roman, not Jewish. You really are a boneheaded dumb man. |
And then there’s this gem from the South Carolina Democratic Party chairwoman: “the Republican vice presidential candidate’s ‘primary qualification seems to be that she hasn’t had an abortion.’” Wow. I haven’t seen self-destruction like this in a long time. |
looks like even the Wall Street Journal is not showing “deference” to Her Greatness.
Com’on guys. Already just two years in office in quiet Alaska and she already has ethics issues. Do you really think she won’t be corrupted by Washington politics within just months? |
Dan, You have to look at it this way- Maybe she will be corrupted, but the other guys are corrupted, and not just by Washington. And weren’t you just crying about nobody calling DKL on his insults? And then you come out with “stupid” and “bone-headed”? |
Don’t bother with Dan, nasamomdele. He’s not just an assumed persona created to parody liberals the way that Aaron Cox parodied Mormon extremists on Banner of Heaven. |
Camille Paglia has an interesting analysis of the election. An excerpt:
She even says, “Gee whilikers.” |
Thanks for the link DKL. I have a great deal of respect for Camille Paglia and agree with pretty much everything she said in the article. Its important for old feminism to be shaken up a bit and if that’s all Palin ends up doing for this country, I think her inclusion on the ticket will be worth it. Unfortunately, I think the more we don’t know about Sarah Palin - the better for her. She’s worth far more to the McCain ticket as a symbol of new ideas and fresh “hockey mom” perspectives. Once she starts opening her mouth trying to debate actual issues, her BS persona will be exposed. |
This is a great article about Feminism. The last line relates particularly well to this discussion. |
I have a question for all you McCain supporters. How can you honestly claim this man is the best to represent our country?
Does John McCain honestly think that Sarah Palin “knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America?” Because why, exactly? Because she’s been governor of Alaska for 18 months? Surely previous governors of Alaska would know more than she does, seeing that they had all served full four year terms. Surely oil executives who have worked all their lives in the field of energy know more than Mrs. Palin. Why do you guys stand for these kinds of lies? Can you not see how utterly awful and childish this is? And this is who you want to represent America to the world? Where is your sense of reason, guys? Why do you accept these lies? Because that’s what they are. Can you not see how far the Republican party has fallen? That they can’t rely on the truth to sell their message. Why do you accept this? |
Dan, True, she probably is not the foremost expert on energy in the country, but give her some credit. She had experience the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission and has spent a huge amount of time working towards tapping the Northern Shore’s fossil fuels and really restructuring the project into the natural gas pipeline it is now. And we won’t even go into ANWAR- that’s a beastly issue for the state, but especially for the Federal Gov’t. I might put money on that statement if he limited it to current elected officials, especially Federal Gov’t folks. As far as renewable energy- solar, geothermal, tidal, whatever- I couldn’t say. So I wouldn’t call them “lies”, unless when a mother says her child is “a little angel” you would yell out “LIES!!!” Which would be pretty funny. But don’t take it that far. All you can really say is, “like anyone can really know that Napoleon.” |
nasamomdele, McCain is selling you a fake person. That’s the point of it. She’s not really the most knowledgeable person in the United States on energy. She’s not even in the Top 1000. To say otherwise is an insult to those who really are knowledgeable on energy. Now, if he were to simply say, “give her credit, she’s worked in the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission and has worked hard at tapping the resources found in the north,” then I really wouldn’t have a problem with it, because that would be a fairly accurate statement. To say, however, that she “knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America” insults the intelligence of Americans who listen to John McCain. It is a lie, nasamomdele. New York Times is reporting on the Palin-Bot’s first programmed interview with softballer Charlie Gibson. It seems McCain’s handlers didn’t fully program Mrs. Palin-bot. She got confused at the “Bush doctrine” question, unsure exactly how to answer (because it wasn’t programmed into her memory by McCain’s handlers). It is sad for me to see otherwise fairly intelligent Americans get so easily bamboozled by a pretty set of eyes. Are so many Americans really that fickle? |
The Palin-Bot swings and misses again
Whoops. Er, who was supposed to work on that part of the programming? Was it Randy Schunemman? I think he was too busy feeding her his crap about Russia, and forgot to insert the correct programming on Iraq. |
Here’s the video Boy her answers sure are scripted. Is this really who you guys want as the Vice President of your country? |
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Heh, so $3 million dollars to study DNA of bears in Montana is evil and corrupt, but $3 million dollars to study DNA of seals in Alaska is okay… You guys are being so badly bamboozled. Why do you fall for this crap? |
Dan: “Does John McCain honestly think that Sarah Palin “knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America?” Because why, exactly? Because she’s been governor of Alaska for 18 months?” Hey, Dan, I filled my gas tank the other day. Can I put myself out there as an expert on energy? |
publius on Obsidian Wings. Pitch perfect. [lengthy blockquote deleted] Well said. |
Mark, Good question. You just might be more experienced than Mrs. Palin. When do you think was the last time she actually filled up her own tank of gas… |
DKL, You know, if you are going to censor my comments, you ought to be respectful enough to properly link them |
Sarah Palin is obviously not the foremost authority on energy. Otherwise she would have asked everybody to check our tire pressure and get tune ups. |
Dan, I have no obligation to you to allow you to make your comments here. Rather than ban you, I allow you to post your comments, though I get universally bad feedback about them — as do you directly. You never post on topic. I praise the Democratic Convention. You rant about Republicans. I criticize the press. You rant about Republicans. I write about Europe’s comments on the US election. You rant about Republicans. And even other Democrats here hold you in contempt. In this case, I’ve already warned you about cross-posting excessively long quotes from other sites. And now you accuse me of censoring you by editing out the entire content of an article you post to anyway. Given the amount of latitude you’ve been given to pollute our forum, you cannot reasonably use words like censorship to describe our behavior. Up until now, I haven’t considered banning you. Unless you are able to give me a good reason not to, I’m going to start considering it. What do you have to say in your own defense? |
“can anyone name a single major gaffe that [Hillary Clinton] committed during her entire primary run?” I think the whole Bosnia/sniper fire claim was “major,” though that’s pretty subjective. That was during the primaries, no? A bit lesser was when economists criticized her for summer gas-tax relief and she replied that we don’t need a bunch of elitists telling us what to believe. I don’t think many voters were upset by that comment, but it sure hurt her among professors and academics (who overwhelmingly vote for and donate to Dems). (It also made her sound frighteningly similar to Pres Bush.) |
Good point, BrianJ. She’s not perfect (obviously, I’m not voting for her), but she made fewer gaffes than Obama, who not only makes egregious gaffes, but can’t admit it. He says all the stuff that Dan Quayle used to say, only the press won’t poke fun at him for it; e.g., saying that there are 57 states or his explanation of the lipstick-pig gaffe (that Palin’s the lipstick and McCain is the pig — worse than the original, because it removes room for doubt). His misstep in answering the question about meeting unconditionally with world leaders ended up becoming enshrined as the signature trait of his foreign policy before he silently abandoned it in order to appeal to the more level heads in the general electorate. (Of course, not all the media’s ads for Obama are positive, but they still haven’t mentioned his flip-flop on meeting with world leaders.) |
Hmmm. I hadn’t heard about the 57 states one. Watching the video of it…meh, not too egregious. Likewise, I don’t see his “without preconditions” statement as much of a misstep or even a flip-flop—I mean from my POV and not from how voters will perceive it. I cringed when I first heard him use the lipstick line; just a bad idea. I don’t think the explanation of it on Letterman makes it any better or worse (and actually, he said that his original intent had nothing to do with Palin at all, but if it had then “the policies of John McCain would be the pig”.) Don’t forget “cling to guns and religion.” Really not a smart thing to say, and definitely cost him votes in critical primaries. Which is to say that I’m going to vote for someone I know makes mistakes. |
DKL, Ah, I did get to you. Good. I’ve made my point. I won’t attack you anymore. It is your own choice to decide to ban or not. I really don’t care. I no longer have any love for this website. |
31:Anybody who seriously believes that there is no media bias favoring the Democrats have never read this. Case closed Really? 21 research assistants “estimating ideological scores for several major media outlets” closes the case for you? Anyway, here’s a couple of excerpts from a story on Palin in the LA Times , the fourth-most liberal paper according to your study: “A video shows Palin asking a group to pray that the nation’s leaders were sending troops to Iraq “on a task that is from God.” Gibson, however, mischaracterized her as simply asserting that the nation’s leaders were sending troops to Iraq on a task from God.” “Gibson went on to take a second part of her comments out of context. Palin had asked the group to pray “that there is a plan, and that plan is God’s plan.” But Gibson dropped her reference to praying — and instead quoted Palin as saying the war was God’s plan. He asked if she believed the country was sending her son on a task from God.” Seems balanced to me, to the point of highlighting possible problems with the interview. Note also that the interviewer, Mr. Gibson, is the anchor of ABC World News, a program that, according to your study, is “9″ more conservative than the LA Times itself. Go figure. |
Since I apparently have no interwebs skillz, here’s the link: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-palin12-2008sep12,0,3693136.story |
Dan, You’re lying about Palin being a “robot” and “programmed”. You’re lying when you suggest she doesn’t fill up her own tank of gas. You lied when you said you were done with political blogging. You lie when you cast stones at the Republican campaign, but leave the Dem campaign alone as if they are without gaffes and scandals. Lies and distortions. Don’t bamboozle people. No one ought to trust your word because of your consistent conflagrations. I don’t think anyone does, anyway. |
With the likes of Matt Damon and Pamela Anderson now offering insightful political commentary on Sarah Palin, I’m really confused about who to trust. Where is a Baldwin with some advice when I need it? Matt Damon offering political expertise: that’s “absurd”. Please don’t quit your day job. Pam Anderson: Palin can “suck it?” Well, she is authoritative on that… An aside: A very good article about how Dems can make sure Obama ends up winning the election. Are you listening Dan? |
Dan, I know you’ve been flailing around for the past several days trying to get my attention, but it’s a bit much for you to be chest thumping about how you “got to me.” Since you make me look good by defining the opposition as ignoramuses raging in impotent fury, it’s in my self interest to keep you around. But, I’m fair: I’m willing to have mercy on the many Democrats who don’t like the way you taint their position. That said, you seem to be offering two reasons why you shouldn’t be banned. First, that you’re only a blog-commenting-terrorist to make a point, and second that you’ll behave from here on out. Neither of those reasons are compelling. Perhaps you have been behaving in this way simply to make a point. Frankly, that is more disturbing than if you’d simply gotten carried away. Furthermore, you fail to grasp the deep chasm between your perception of how you act and other people’s perception of how you act. Lastly, you didn’t have the discipline to stay “retired” when you finally came clean about how those who disagree with you fill you with rage and hatred. So there’s no reason to believe you now. |
I’ve listened to the lipstick comment in context several times and I have to say that the worst way it could possibly be construed it that McCain and his policies are the pig and that Palin is the lipstick applied to make everyone excited about McCain and his policies. You’d have to be ignorant of the context and fail at English comprehension to state that Palin is the pig. If she’s the pig, what is the lipstick? McCain’s old policies? It makes no sense. Except that faux outrage makes all sorts of sense when it keeps the news distracted from the economy, the wars, or policy debate. |
queuno: This is your lucky break! With Dan out of the picture, only 400+ more comments and the top commenter spot is all yours! |
I couldn’t possibly come up with 400 more comments before Dan’s new alias surpasses me (every time there’s a political post, Dan gets in about 6x as many). I’ve been around the ‘nacle for awhile. But this is really the best blog (along with Keeppitchwhateverican’tspellit). Mostly because the people here are a bit more real than some of the other big blogs. Although, I’ll read pretty much whatever Ardis posts, no matter where… |
I couldn’t possibly come up with 400 more comments before Dan’s new alias surpasses me Har! |
Tina Fey needs to play Palin on SNL. http://www.hotornotgossip.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/29/tinafey.jpg Uncanny resemblence. |
Tina Fey is probably wondering how long of gig that would be. |
Just found out that Tina Fey _did_ play Palin on SNL tonight. Might be the first time Tina Fey votes Republican. |
Yeah, she did a freakishly good impression too. |