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	<title>Comments on: Let the men go without sideburns</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm</link>
	<description>Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People</description>
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		<title>By: 2008 Niblets: Rock the Vote Here! at Mormon Matters</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-108961</link>
		<dc:creator>2008 Niblets: Rock the Vote Here! at Mormon Matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-108961</guid>
		<description>[...] Burgess “Let the Men wear Sideburns!” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Burgess “Let the Men wear Sideburns!” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Last Chance for Niblet Nominations at Mormon Matters</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-108939</link>
		<dc:creator>Last Chance for Niblet Nominations at Mormon Matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-108939</guid>
		<description>[...] Ordinary Grounds Crew Poetry” Burgess “Yeah, I’m that Poet You Kind of Remember” Burgess “Let the Men wear Sideburns!” Caroline “Ways NOT To Teach About Chastity” David&#8217;s &#8220;If God Were A Woman&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ordinary Grounds Crew Poetry” Burgess “Yeah, I’m that Poet You Kind of Remember” Burgess “Let the Men wear Sideburns!” Caroline “Ways NOT To Teach About Chastity” David&#8217;s &#8220;If God Were A Woman&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Kategianes</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94641</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Kategianes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94641</guid>
		<description>It was nice to go to the U, where we got on with the business of education, not measuring sideburns...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was nice to go to the U, where we got on with the business of education, not measuring sideburns&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94404</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94404</guid>
		<description>Dear annegb,

I&#039;m not sure if you&#039;re joking or not, but I&#039;ll play it safe and assume you&#039;re not: nothing I say about my life is ever actually true!!  If I do say something sincere in the future, I&#039;ll signpost it as such. 

I&#039;m touched though, you would (apparently) search for my &quot;poetry.&quot; ... I&#039;ll have to write something just for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear annegb,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re joking or not, but I&#8217;ll play it safe and assume you&#8217;re not: nothing I say about my life is ever actually true!!  If I do say something sincere in the future, I&#8217;ll signpost it as such. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m touched though, you would (apparently) search for my &#8220;poetry.&#8221; &#8230; I&#8217;ll have to write something just for you.</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94370</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94370</guid>
		<description>Burgess!  Not everybody here went to BYU, I don&#039;t remember you at all from your work in the standards office.  I wish you&#039;d provide history for your posts.  I looked all over for the anthology of your poems.  Where can I find them?  Or is this info available only to a select few?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burgess!  Not everybody here went to BYU, I don&#8217;t remember you at all from your work in the standards office.  I wish you&#8217;d provide history for your posts.  I looked all over for the anthology of your poems.  Where can I find them?  Or is this info available only to a select few?</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94308</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94308</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Please help me to understand why you would be so moved as to damage personal property in this manner. In fact, let me just reach here for my planner …&lt;/i&gt;

I didn&#039;t think it right that they were attempting to backfill me for a job I had quit when they hadn&#039;t yet paid me for my last month&#039;s worth.  Plus, the job posting was in a public message board.  It wasn&#039;t personal property.  And it was posted in an illegal location, without the appropriate administration.  My inquisitor agreed that since it was an illegal posting, there was no damage made to the company.  But since they had complained, HCO felt they had to follow up.  I made the point that in my time on the HCO, complaints from non-BYU entities were seldom taken so seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Please help me to understand why you would be so moved as to damage personal property in this manner. In fact, let me just reach here for my planner …</i></p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think it right that they were attempting to backfill me for a job I had quit when they hadn&#8217;t yet paid me for my last month&#8217;s worth.  Plus, the job posting was in a public message board.  It wasn&#8217;t personal property.  And it was posted in an illegal location, without the appropriate administration.  My inquisitor agreed that since it was an illegal posting, there was no damage made to the company.  But since they had complained, HCO felt they had to follow up.  I made the point that in my time on the HCO, complaints from non-BYU entities were seldom taken so seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94235</link>
		<dc:creator>DKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94235</guid>
		<description>Lighten up, Nigel. It&#039;s a lampoon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lighten up, Nigel. It&#8217;s a lampoon!</p>
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		<title>By: nigel</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94233</link>
		<dc:creator>nigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94233</guid>
		<description>Wow. I haven&#039;t read such a self-righteous post in quite a while. I believe such individuals, similar to the Spanish inquisitors of old, were so drunk with power that their completely inappropriate actions, writings, and sermons seemed somehow justified.

Luckily, BYU administrators realized the irreprable damage the misguided HCC caused that it dissolved the organization in 1999. In its place, the Student Honor Association (SHA) was formed to take a more Christlike approach. I had the opportunity to work as a VP for SHA right after HCC was disbanded. Most of our efforts were spent working to repair what the corrupt HCC had done.

In the end, after working closely with BYUSA and Honor Code executives, in addition to the Dean of Students, I am not aware of any official who considers the HCC era successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I haven&#8217;t read such a self-righteous post in quite a while. I believe such individuals, similar to the Spanish inquisitors of old, were so drunk with power that their completely inappropriate actions, writings, and sermons seemed somehow justified.</p>
<p>Luckily, BYU administrators realized the irreprable damage the misguided HCC caused that it dissolved the organization in 1999. In its place, the Student Honor Association (SHA) was formed to take a more Christlike approach. I had the opportunity to work as a VP for SHA right after HCC was disbanded. Most of our efforts were spent working to repair what the corrupt HCC had done.</p>
<p>In the end, after working closely with BYUSA and Honor Code executives, in addition to the Dean of Students, I am not aware of any official who considers the HCC era successful.</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94221</link>
		<dc:creator>DKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94221</guid>
		<description>Tagore, I like your model based on the French Revolution. I propose that, using that model, Burgess is Robespierre, The Incorruptible. His twisted vision of enlightenment values combined with his personal sense of righteousness led him to define his own authority in terms of the &quot;good&quot; that he inflicted on the masses, ultimately causing a backlash that led to his downfall. Thus, Burgess equates the HCO with The Reign of Terror. And -- here&#039;s the irony -- it ultimately led to Burgess&#039;s own downfall as an unspoken, but tragic, end to our tale to counterbalance the success of our up-and-coming NuSkin executive, at once reinforcing and undermining the central thesis of the story. Forcing us, Leonard Berstein-like, to face head-on the disconnect between the unachievable ideal and the inadequate reality. &lt;em&gt;Sideburns indeed.&lt;/em&gt; Brilliant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tagore, I like your model based on the French Revolution. I propose that, using that model, Burgess is Robespierre, The Incorruptible. His twisted vision of enlightenment values combined with his personal sense of righteousness led him to define his own authority in terms of the &#8220;good&#8221; that he inflicted on the masses, ultimately causing a backlash that led to his downfall. Thus, Burgess equates the HCO with The Reign of Terror. And &#8212; here&#8217;s the irony &#8212; it ultimately led to Burgess&#8217;s own downfall as an unspoken, but tragic, end to our tale to counterbalance the success of our up-and-coming NuSkin executive, at once reinforcing and undermining the central thesis of the story. Forcing us, Leonard Berstein-like, to face head-on the disconnect between the unachievable ideal and the inadequate reality. <em>Sideburns indeed.</em> Brilliant!</p>
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		<title>By: Tagore</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/10/30/let-the-men-go-without-sideburns.htm/comment-page-1#comment-94219</link>
		<dc:creator>Tagore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1010#comment-94219</guid>
		<description>DKL (23): 

Alternatively, &quot;Let the men go without&quot; could derive from the phrase often attributed to Marie Antoinette (though perhaps more accurately attributed to Marie-Thérèse, wife of Louis XIV), &quot;Let them eat cake&quot; (&quot;qu&#039;ils mangent de la brioche&quot; in French). As you know, this was allegedly Antoinette&#039;s response when informed that the French masses were without bread and starving. 

The Antoinette interpretation would take a subtle, yet meaningful departure from the Navy-centered construction you advocate above, with some distinct Marxist tones. The BYU masses serve as the analog to the 18th century French proletariat. Len&#039;s comment is likely a response to the proletarian complaints regarding facial hair prohibition at BYU. One can sympathize, without agreeing, with Len&#039;s approach. The HCO had displayed magnanimity by allowing mustaches, and yet students continued complaining about beard restrictions. Len, in typical bourgeois fashion, lashes out, saying, in essence, &quot;If they&#039;re not happy with mustaches, then let them go without sideburns.&quot; 

Admittedly, Burgess&#039;s role is somewhat less clear in this model. I would argue this suggests the model is incomplete rather than inaccurate, and encourage others to explore what looks to be very fertile ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DKL (23): </p>
<p>Alternatively, &#8220;Let the men go without&#8221; could derive from the phrase often attributed to Marie Antoinette (though perhaps more accurately attributed to Marie-Thérèse, wife of Louis XIV), &#8220;Let them eat cake&#8221; (&#8221;qu&#8217;ils mangent de la brioche&#8221; in French). As you know, this was allegedly Antoinette&#8217;s response when informed that the French masses were without bread and starving. </p>
<p>The Antoinette interpretation would take a subtle, yet meaningful departure from the Navy-centered construction you advocate above, with some distinct Marxist tones. The BYU masses serve as the analog to the 18th century French proletariat. Len&#8217;s comment is likely a response to the proletarian complaints regarding facial hair prohibition at BYU. One can sympathize, without agreeing, with Len&#8217;s approach. The HCO had displayed magnanimity by allowing mustaches, and yet students continued complaining about beard restrictions. Len, in typical bourgeois fashion, lashes out, saying, in essence, &#8220;If they&#8217;re not happy with mustaches, then let them go without sideburns.&#8221; </p>
<p>Admittedly, Burgess&#8217;s role is somewhat less clear in this model. I would argue this suggests the model is incomplete rather than inaccurate, and encourage others to explore what looks to be very fertile ground.</p>
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