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As the prophet of the Church of Santa Clause of Mystical Railroads, I believe I’m already living the highest law, the celestial, yea, the sleeping in and the napping and the football on the TV and the oh so sweet coffee in the mornings. |
Orwell: Is this for real? A 2-hour 15-minute pilot program? Hmmm…[mentally calculating the cost of airline tickets to Chile] |
This is being done in certain parts of Mesa and Phoenix, where there (and this is key to both AZ and Chile) not enough meetinghouses to accommodate 3-hour blocks… I don’t think the Church really wants to go to a lesser block (what, and make priesthood/RS/Sunday school even worse than it is). |
Complaining about all the time meetings suck from them is a hobby of the mediocre. “Why didn’t I get this work done on time? How could I when I had to waste two hours on that meeting three days ago, and half a day on training a week and a half ago?” That said, I don’t like the 3-hour block, and even less the 5-hour superblock. I wish priesthood meeting were still it’s own affair at 7 AM. |
Not to be a Molly, but I don’t mind the 3-hour block. I do mind our current 10:00 AM meeting time and wish we could go back to 9:00 (it works better for toddler napping schedules) but I was raised with the 3-hour block and it works for me. I would like to see the first hour shortened just a little… Sometimes that hour and 15 minutes is just a little too long. And GD and RS/Priesthood end up getting shortened when Sacrament goes over. As a former RS and GD teacher, I used to find that extremely frustrating. |
One casualty of the 3-hour block is that several good, gloomy closing songs have no use anymore. “Now the Day Is Over,” “Abide With Me,” “Abide With Me; ‘Tis Eventide.” I suppose most people who’ve never left a sacrament meeting at dusk don’t even know those songs. Our breadth of religious feeling is poorer without them. |
John, I agree that the good’n'gloomy (as you put them) hymns need to find a place back in our culture somehow. I love all those hymns. “Now The Day Is Over” is one of my favorites. |
I wouldn’t mind seeing PH/RS shortened a bit, but there’s barely enough time to teach Sunday School lessons as it is now, particularly given how slowly people tend to drift into classes after Sacrament meeting. I do find it interesting that (and this is purely anecdotal observation) there appears to be a high degree of overlap between those who complain about the length of the three-hour block and those who complain about the doctrinal/scriptural/historical ignorance of the general Church membership. Frankly, if I were tinkering with the block schedule, I’d lop 10 minutes off of Sacrament meeting (we’d get better talks) and another 20 minutes off of PH/RS, and leave Sunday School untouched. YMMV. ..bruce.. |
Something I would also like to witness. Thanks for the report. |
My recommendation: 2 hour block for sacrament, RS/Priesthood, primary, YM, YW. In the evening is an optional stake wide sunday school with 3 or 4 classes to choose from with the best teachers in the stake (thus improving sunday school teacher quality). |
PPP, I get you. The 3-hour block has been a given almost my entire life (well, at least the part of my life that I can remember). I don’t think it ever really occurred to me that church could be shorter until this experience in Chile (which is 100% legitimate, Hunter, though I don’t know if it’s still going on). But this, like almost everything I ever write on the internet on any subject, is meant to be pretty light-hearted. I have no crusade against the status quo, but I wouldn’t be broken hearted if Salt Lake did decide to chop off 30 to 45 minutes either. If the block were shorter, though, I’d be in favor of something along the lines of what Bruce has in mind. I think Priesthood and Sacrament Meeting could afford to be shortened a little with negligible adverse effects. queuno, I am not sure that lack of meetinghouse space was the issue in Chile. I acknowledge that I could be mistaken, but I think that the ward I attended in Santiago was the only one in the building (this may not have been the norm, I don’t know). Besides, the Church is usually pretty good at finding rental space to keep up with demand, and with the inactivity statistics as bad as they are in Chile, I have a hard time believing that they just couldn’t pack them in tight enough. Worst case scenario, you can still fit three reasonable 3-hour blocks into a day without overlapping. If the space crunch were so bad that even that couldn’t solve it, I don’t see the church holding off on building a few more chapels. The impression I got from the area president was that it was more of an experiment rather than making do with the facilities they had. But again, I could be mistaken. That’s interesting to hear that they’ve been doing something similar in Arizona, I didn’t know it was happening anywhere stateside. |
“I do find it interesting that (and this is purely anecdotal observation) there appears to be a high degree of overlap between those who complain about the length of the three-hour block and those who complain about the doctrinal/scriptural/historical ignorance of the general Church membership.” Distinct from the “bellyache about one thing, bellyache about everything” overlap? |
A guy I work with was in a Stake that was doing this in Arizona for 18 months. He claims the Bishop told him Sacrament Meeting attendance went up for that 18 months, though I have no idea if he was kidding or not. His wife actually cited the 2 hour schedule as one of the reasons they should stay in Arizona when he was looking for a new job. |
i know your real reasons, |
In all likelihood, no. |
Ok sign me up for that 2 hour block pilot program. The last (and only) time I was involved in a pilot program was the pilot program for the 3 hour block. 2 hours of church would be a good thing for many of us. I think that we do enough already with early morning seminary, youth night, HT/VT etc.. I think that on Sunday, we should have Sacrament Mtg and RS/Priesthood. IN fact RS/Priesthood could be cut down to a 1/2 hour. As for Sunday School, I too agree with bfWebster and Trevor, put it on youth night and offer an assortment of classes. In fact this idea would work with my idea of combining wards on youth night into one super mutal organization. Go back to having a fun Primary program mid week same night as the youth night; rather than what primary is now, jr. SS for two hours. This way you would have enough people to justify multiple SS instructors and classes. More kids for fellowshipping and less wasted man/woman power in preparing a fun activity. The scout programs would improve and the girls would all have several friendship circles in which to choose from. As for youth SS 14-18 year olds get enough in Seminary. For the 12-13 year olds puberty is tough enough give them a rest. The rest of the world follows this same schedule. Somehow the other churches have fun youth programs and adult bible classes all going on the same time on Wednesday night. |
I live in a very small branch in Montana. We have 26 active members. This branch falls in a “category” where we are automatically put into a two meeting block. We have Sacrament meeting and PH/RS, YW/YM and one hour of Primary. There are simply not enough people to staff a Sunday School. To be honest we all like the two hour block… a lot. It seems to be something that is based on numbers in this case. I am aware of another branch in Minnesota that went from three hour to two hour when they lost some members from the branch. So it may have been a test program for the church in general, but it is in place for small branches. |
MontanaMuse, that sounds like a problematic disincentive, something that would keep many from putting too much effort into home teaching or sharing the gospel. |
I propose a 90 minute block. Shorten sacrament meeting by making the sacrament the actual focus of it and only have one speaker. Tell members that since they now get to speak less frequently they’d better speak twice as well. After a 40 minute sacrament meeting you could have a 10 minute break and then a 40 minute SS one week and a 40 minute PH/RS the next. On Fast Sundays have a 1 hour 15 minute F&T meeting and then go home. On 5th Sundays have a very short sacrament meeting with just the sacrament and then go do a service project. |
Part of the reason of going to the block was to make it easier on those that had to and have to travel long distances to make it to meetings not just on Sunday, but also during the week. |
queuno, I am not sure that lack of meetinghouse space was the issue in Chile. I acknowledge that I could be mistaken, but I think that the ward I attended in Santiago was the only one in the building (this may not have been the norm, I don’t know). I guess now is a good time as any to recount the story of the 10-minute meeting block, when I was on my mission in Chile (although, a bit to the south of Santiago). I was serving in a small branch where, by the nature of my assignment as the senior companion, I was the 2nd Counselor in the Branch Presidency. The branch met in a small house. It was winter. It didn’t snow, it was worse. During the winter, someone brought coals from their stove at home to put into a small brazier. We put that in the chapel area during sacrament meeting and by the end of the block, the place was generally warm enough from body heat and the heat generated from the coals. On one particular wintry Sunday, both the branch president and his first counselor were assigned to work. The nature of their employment was such where modifying a work schedule was impossible and begging for a switch to allow one to attend to his Church duties would be counterproductive (plus, they hated Mormons with the passion of a thousand suns). On this Sunday, the 2nd counselor (me) and his junior companion arrived at the chapel. A few sisters were there. No branch president. No 1st counselor. They sent word through a member about the work conflict. That was OK; I had covered meetings before. Except, that we had no coals from the brazier. It was cold and miserable. Being the presiding authority, I made a decision heartily welcomed by the membership (but frowned upon by my comp) — we opened with a song, had a prayer, blessed and passed the sacrament, said a benediction, and went home. |
“those who complain about the doctrinal/scriptural/historical ignorance of the general Church membership” Is there any evidence that the Sunday School or PH/RS curricula are designed to address this problem? It seems rather that they are designed to promote what you might call “gospel knowledge by talking point”, and as a secondary goal at that. |
Tigersue, having spent eighteen months as the primary accompanist myself, I appreciate your perspective. That said, I don’t think most primary workers would mind having to hold the attention of a bunch of squirmy munchkins for less time (the nursery people especially). I also don’t really see a problem with finding enough time to teach primary songs… everything will have to be a little bit shorter, but it should still be doable. I also teach Priesthood, and, well, a little less time wouldn’t bother me in the slightest – especially if someone else is teaching and reading from the manual (I make it a point to never read anything from the manual when I teach Priesthood… if I really need a verbatim quote I usually try to commit it to memory beforehand). But… that’s me. To each his own. queuno, I also served down in that part of the world (though not quite as far south. Having experienced that sort of cold first-hand, I would completely support your decision… |
As my handle implies, I was recently serving in the Primary Presidency in my ward and Orwell is right. I wouldn’t have minded a bit if our time was shortened by 15-20 minutes each Sunday. I’m sure the teachers would agree as well. As it is, usually you’re looking for a few more things to fill the time each week in Sharing Time and a lot of time gets wasted. Having said that, now that I get to attend RS and GD with generally good teachers each week, I think I might miss some of that time away from kids. However, I would like to see our RS actually end at 5 ’til the hour at some point. We have a tendency to go over almost every Sunday (even when the few teachers who do just read the lesson [gag] don’t ask for input or ask questions). I will admit to being a bit of a clock watcher but I’m one of the few Mormons who thinks meetings scheduled to start at 10:00 and end at 11:00 should, indeed, start at 10:00 and end at 11:00. I know… I’m a radical. |
So’m I, Paroled….If they went with the two hour block here, I’d think I died and went to heaven, unless it still starts at 9 am. I go inactive the year we have church at 9 and then reactivate when we go to 11 am. I love, love, love the 1 pm meeting! I’d also like to see instruments permitted in the meetings and songs other than the hymnbook. Me and Bill got in an argument yesterday because I was watching the Gaither gospel Christmas special and I said, “Now why can’t we sing and have fun like that in sacrament? What’s not reverent about that?” And he said, “Lots of things.” I said, “Since when does long and boring and quiet and redundant equal reverence?” But he still has his opinion and I still have mine. He’s so worried I’m going to leave the church. They will have no such luck. |
annegb: if you’re willing to go to church at 11:00am, does that mean you go for the 3rd hour when church starts at 9:00 am? |
@25 and I thought I was the ONLY church member who loves the 1pm meeting time… |
anngb, BS has a point… and why aren’t you there at 11? |