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I can’t say I’ve had the same experience in the twelve years since I left Utah. I’ve had those feelings on occasion, but almost never any condescension or rudeness on the part of anyone else. In fact, I think it’s safe to say that Utahns are just overly defensive. Almost everyone I meet who hears I’m from Utah responds with either indifference or enthusiasm (i.e., “Great skiing!” or “Utah’s beautiful,” or “I’ve been to Salt Lake City and it’s really nice/clean!”). Maybe it’s a function of where you are. If you’re somewhere that considers itself among the cultural elites (i.e., Manhattan or Boston, for example), there are likely to be people who look down on you no matter where you are from. If you are somewhere like the South (I’ve lived in North Carolina, then Texas for the last dozen years), where people are used to being condescended to, it’s no biggie. |
This is certainly true, and it’s one of the reasons that I try to go out of my way not to respond defensively… either take the moral high-ground or see if they can take what they dish out. What is it that makes Utahns so defensive, though? Is it because we often unconsciously conflate our state of origin with our religion?
I’ve wondered this myself, and it may be contributing factor. At any rate, I am glad that you generally get such positive responses. I don’t mean to imply that everyone, everywhere has this poorly repressed, boiling hatred of Utah just waiting to be unleashed at the mere mention of the place. However, when the negative responses do inevitably rear their ugly head, how should one deal with them? |
Theres’s only one way: |
This phenomenon also extends to what happens when people find out that I did my undergraduate degree at BYU Oh. I’m so sorry. |
MSTP FTW! |
On a more serious note, when we lived in Boston my wife would catch flack for being from Utah all the time and actually planned comebacks in advance. |
MCQ, I like your style. However, since I am from Utah and went to BYU, I am almost certainly a homophobe and therefore can’t implement your suggestion due to my deep-rooted aversion to touching other men’s genitals. |
And this, arJ, coming from a guy that lives in Sandy? |
This is nothing compared to what we USU alumni feel. We get the exact same so-you’re-from-utah response without the decent football team and reasonable academic performance. |
“I am almost certainly a homophobe and therefore can’t implement your suggestion due to my deep-rooted aversion to touching other men’s genitals.” Practice makes perfect. |
Poor, poor Orwell. Your stories are so sad! Maybe if you were from a better state you wouldn’t feel so put upon! |
And this coming from someone from Washington… See, this is what I’m talking about! What is the correct way to respond to a belligerent like PPP? Obviously “Monkey Steals the Peach” isn’t going to work here… |
Maybe you UT guys should take some pointers for West Virginians and just never leave your state. I am guessing most people residing in UT would not belittle you. But really, when someone says “I’m so sorry” why don’t you just ask them with a very straight face “Why?” It seems that would put an end to it (uncomfortably, but an end nonetheless). Another tactic is to answer not with Utah, but with your specific town. If they are interested enough to ask follow up questions to get to UT, I am guessing they will not make fun of it–already devoted too much time to the topic (they are really saying “sorry” because they have nothing else to say). Of course, there is the change of direction tactic: “Utah, and you?” Clearly indicating that there is nothing to talk about about UT. What I find frustrating is living in biggish cities with fine universities, we tend to have a lot of Utahns who socialize (at Church) primarily by asking where you are from and then being shocked, shocked when I tell them I am a local (what you, with your Mormon-sized family and pioneer stock grew up in this heathen place?). They generally gravitate to other people who can commiserate about the non-UT weather and eager anticipation to return somehwere where they know how to get around (we have street names and trees–get over it and learn how to read a map). I agree that there is a lot of defensiveness about this. Face it, people from UT make fun of ID. If you are happy to be from UT, it shouldn’t matter what anyone else thinks. My dad, who left ID when he was 18, is so proud of the fact that although he is a big wig corporate lawyer for 30+ years, it is on his resume that he grew up on a farm in rural ID. He thinks it is charming. |
Speak for yourself, Scott. There’s nothing to be ashamed about having gone to USU, Utah’s only Research 1 university and a perennial college hoops power. |
You’re right, Orwell, and very sapient. We Washingtonians (pronounced war-shin-tone-ee-uns) really have no room to brag what with our beautiful mountains, glacier-fed lakes, bountiful valleys… Wait! Utahns have that too! So much for a preying on your insecurities. I think I’ll have to turn in my official “Utahn abuser†card (I keep it in my wallet behind my temple recommend). :) |
One of Tagore’s confrontations happened when he was challenged by two co-workers: one from the SF Bay Area, and one from Detroit. This was around the time of the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, and Bay Area co-worker remarked that a lot of bad news comes out of Utah (conveniently forgetting about the Scott Peterson case underway in her hometown). As for Detroit guy, it really baffles me that anyone from Detroit would say something bad about any other place to live. |
BTD Greg (15), USU has also supplied powerhouse wide receiver Kevin Curtis to the super bowl-bound Philadelphia Eagles. |
BTD Greg (15) and Dan Ellsworth (18)- I mistakenly thought I was the only Aggie in the room and went for some self-deprecating humor. What you say is true: Aggie basketball rules the state, and no one has supplied more short, white, over-achieving wide receivers to mediocre teams on the verge of the Superbowl than USU. However, in the context of the post, your comments are out of order–no one outside of the state knows poop about USU research capabilities–they know only that it’s the non-flagship “state” school. Also, the number of non-fantasy-football playing 20-somethings who know where Kevin Curtis went to college could probably be counted on my fingers and toes. Show me the Scotsman… |
“I am guessing most people residing in UT would not belittle you.” Not necessarily. My father grew up in Utah, but went to graduate school at Texas A&M and spent most of his professional life (and my childhood) bouncing around the country until he finally ended up back in Utah. One day he received a letter from the president of the Utah chapter of the A&M Alumni Association inviting him to participate with the local chapter. The letter was full of really snotty remarks about Utah and how horrible it was that Aggies have to live in such a backward and unpleasant place. The chapter president suggested that having to live in Utah might be a little more tolerable if Aggies could commiserate regarding their disagreeable lot in life. Apparently it never occurred to the guy that some alumni might be _from_ Utah. Or even (imagine this!) that some might be from out of state, and still not despise the place. |
Scott, there’s no shame in USU at all. I am the first in my family not to go there. I have deep Aggie roots – I even had a relative that was president there and my middle name is emblazoned on a prominent building on campus. I considered Logan a second home growing up. I will always remember it fondly. But, yeah, the football sucks. ESO, I’ve done the “Utah, and you?” thing. I’ll admit it works, but I always feel like such a pansy for skirting the issue so hastily. So Tagore, did you use the “Bay area” technique on the guy from SF? |
Orwell,
Doesn’t that just say it all? I’m being facetious–sort of. I am a true-blue Aggie and proud of it, but the fact remains that whenever someone here (Orange County) asks where I went to school and I say Utah State, I ALWAYS get the Utah-reaction from the post, followed by a “never heard of it, so it can’t be any good” reaction. I usually am quick to say (truthfully), “I’m actually from Preston, ID”, at which point the conversation usually shifts to Napolean Dynamite. *sigh* |
BTD Greg: “USU, Utah’s only Research 1 university…” Is that term used anymore? In terms of research, is USU on a different level than UofU? |
For the last few years, the U.S. Senate majority leader has been a Utah State alumnus. Maybe that counts for something. I have a problem a bit like the Utahns’. I am from Las Vegas, Nevada, a city about which most people have some impression, mostly incorrect as far as my life goes. When asked where I’m from, I answer, “Nevada,” with the hope that the other person will for at least half a second scroll through mental images of deserts and mountains before zeroing in on Caesars Palace and the Bellagio. |
No good, John. I just pictured you topless in a tall headdress doing two shows a night at the The Sands. |
Orwell (20):
No, I just strategically employed the use of my middle finger. That’s what people from Utah do. But seriously, I’m glad you resurrected this post, if only to learn about “monkey steals the peach.” That’s my new approach. Either that or mooning someone. Seriously: What can someone say if you moon them? There’s no response to a moon. It’s the ultimate trump card. Just the other day, shortly after an argument about communism, a co-worker mooned me. I had nothing to say. |
May I comment? We Yankees like to know where people are from and their ethnic backgrounds. I guess it comes with the territory of being part of the beginning of the American melting pot. I whole heartedly agree with ESO’s suggestion to answer “Utah, and you?”. Perhaps such a thoughtful and polite reply would change the opinion of the inquirer. On the other hand, it does take us Yankees a looooooong time to change, but it’s a start anyway! |
Tagore: Is there an emoticon equivalent for mooning? That’d be useful on blogs. Maybe: ( I ) Or an emoticon for monkey steals the peach? No, that’s probably a bad idea. |
“We Yankees like to know where people are from and their ethnic backgrounds. I guess it comes with the territory of being part of the beginning of the American melting pot.” I would respond to this in a thoughtful and polite way, but I am too busy gagging. |
MCQ: go ahead and gag; we’ll just mix it into the pot. Yum! |
“We Yankees like to know where people are from and their ethnic backgrounds.” After all, it is really hard to pigeon hole the new people you meet based on their geographic origin and/or ethnic background without actually knowing a little something about their geographic origin and/or ethnic background. |
True, you need the details in order to really ridicule them in a meaningful way. Otherwise, you are left with just making snide comments about their appearance. And really, what fun is that? |
I love this post. Thanks for the comments. As someone who both loved and hated attending BYU, my answer is simply, “BYU.” Then if the comments are positive, I go along with it. If it goes downhill, well, I can do that, too. |
I always feel like New Englanders in general are very unimpressed with where others hail from. In the Northwest if you say you’re visiting from Boston people are always impressed with the distance or the weather or the history. Here, no one seems impressed with any location other than their own. Maybe it is because there are so many transplants here and so many are international. Either way… New Englanders can be kind of rude regardless of the topic of conversation. |
Yes. Or no, whatever. USU is more of a research university than University of Utah (med school aside, of course) and Utah is better known for its academics. Of course, this is really a non-sequitur for me, a philosophy and liberal arts major. But nevermind that. Seriously, though, I’ve never had anyone say anything bad about my undergraduate alma mater. It’s a state university, just like the many other fine land-grant universities in the country. Maybe it helps that most people I know professionally also know that I went to a prestigious private law school. I dunno. I imagine opinions would be a lot more mixed if I had gone to BYU. |
This is my impression of states: Oregon: people on drugs Those of us in Utah feel it because we hear about it, but every state has their issues. And I believe everybody has their bigotry. I did get a call the other day from a guy who asked me if everybody in Utah was Mormon or only some of the people were Mormon. I said it was like every other state that way, maybe a little more Mormon and the Mormon influence is strong, but it’s not a law or anything that everybody is a Mormon. |
1. Outside of Utah, not that many people associate “BYU” with “being from Utah”. They associate “BYU” with “Mormon” and “college football fan”, but maybe only 1 in 15 people I meet assume I actually lived in Utah. 2. Inside Utah, everyone assumes that if you married a Utahn and went to BYU, you must be a Utahn and are “dying to move home”. Of course, they are completely flummoxed when you say that “home” was formerly The North Coast and is now TGSOT. 3. Obviously, annegb has never been to either Ohio or Texas. :) 4. My wife is from Utah. But you know what? When she meets people (who’ve never been there), VERY rarely do people make assumptions about Utah (except that they guess that she’s a Mormon). Generally speaking, people assume that when you leave a state and don’t have immediate plans to return, that you probably don’t have that much in common with the stereotype. |
I kind of like how both the RLDS and the Strangites, for many years (and I recently saw it somewhere on the Strangite web site) accused the Saints who followed Brigham Young to the Salt Lake Valley as being the “uneducated and lower class” of the Nauvoo Mormons. Them making such an accusation is actually a point in favor of the group that followed Brigham. 1 Cor. 1: 26-28 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: |
Wait a minute. I went to kindergarten, elementary school, and high school with Tagore in Utah. People have a right to mock. I was there. I saw it. |
It has been great to see all of the additional publicity the church has been getting with the Romney campaign. |