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	<title>Comments on: The Not-so-bitter Fruits of Apostasy</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm</link>
	<description>Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People</description>
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		<title>By: Mormon Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People &#187; The Jesus/Super Bowl Fallacy</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-108269</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People &#187; The Jesus/Super Bowl Fallacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-108269</guid>
		<description>[...] possibly be any moral flaws in Jesus&#8217;s teachings. Thus, my fellow perma-blogger Dan Ellsworth, acknowledges that Christ&#8217;s teachings contain &#8220;head scratchers that we gloss over in our Church classes&#8230;,&#8221; but still [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] possibly be any moral flaws in Jesus&#8217;s teachings. Thus, my fellow perma-blogger Dan Ellsworth, acknowledges that Christ&#8217;s teachings contain &#8220;head scratchers that we gloss over in our Church classes&#8230;,&#8221; but still [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ABJ</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-104023</link>
		<dc:creator>ABJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 06:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-104023</guid>
		<description>I would question the seriousness of adultery as a general concept.  There are differing circumstances.  If a couple is apart for a long period, adultery may occur, but on return, life can go on without much damage.  If it occurs while they are together, then it is far more serious, but still can be managed.
  
And then the general notion of violence, again there can be incidents which become so frustrating to one of the mates that he or she simply loses it, and then there is continuing violence, which eats at relationship and self esteem.  

Best not to generalize the issues.  Not quite a black and white issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would question the seriousness of adultery as a general concept.  There are differing circumstances.  If a couple is apart for a long period, adultery may occur, but on return, life can go on without much damage.  If it occurs while they are together, then it is far more serious, but still can be managed.</p>
<p>And then the general notion of violence, again there can be incidents which become so frustrating to one of the mates that he or she simply loses it, and then there is continuing violence, which eats at relationship and self esteem.  </p>
<p>Best not to generalize the issues.  Not quite a black and white issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-104019</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-104019</guid>
		<description>&quot;And I respectfully disagree with the notion that criticism of church leaders is among â€œthe bitter fruits of apostasy.&quot;

We had this lesson last Sunday. I understood that this is coupled with saying that we are more righteous than the leader, ie criticizing leaders while claiming ourselves to be righteous which is more than just objecting to a policy, practice or behavior. Or saying they are bad and us knowing who to replace them with. Plus taking the first steps to apostasy doesn&#039;t mean that we will become apostates. Everyone will have some bad days. 

I haven&#039;t read all comments but I did see some comments claiming that adultery is not as bad as emotional abuse. Maybe Jesus&#039; society didn&#039;t recognize this as a sin back then. But still the damage adultery produces, both to the sinner and the innocent victims like children, is much more than the damage resulting from any kind of violence except for murder, and emotional abuse is a form of violence. Even though our society has accepted sexual relations outside marriage and sometimes encourages it for dating couples it is still canonized as a gross sin. The proof for this is in the time it takes to simply repent from both sins: adultery can take years, incest takes decades usually, but ending emotional abuse and repenting is usually obtained after counseling/teaching what it is and what the person is doing,ie once they understand what is wrong; adulterers usually have a hard time just understanding that their actions were sinful because the claim to be in love or their marriage already ended etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And I respectfully disagree with the notion that criticism of church leaders is among â€œthe bitter fruits of apostasy.&#8221;</p>
<p>We had this lesson last Sunday. I understood that this is coupled with saying that we are more righteous than the leader, ie criticizing leaders while claiming ourselves to be righteous which is more than just objecting to a policy, practice or behavior. Or saying they are bad and us knowing who to replace them with. Plus taking the first steps to apostasy doesn&#8217;t mean that we will become apostates. Everyone will have some bad days. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read all comments but I did see some comments claiming that adultery is not as bad as emotional abuse. Maybe Jesus&#8217; society didn&#8217;t recognize this as a sin back then. But still the damage adultery produces, both to the sinner and the innocent victims like children, is much more than the damage resulting from any kind of violence except for murder, and emotional abuse is a form of violence. Even though our society has accepted sexual relations outside marriage and sometimes encourages it for dating couples it is still canonized as a gross sin. The proof for this is in the time it takes to simply repent from both sins: adultery can take years, incest takes decades usually, but ending emotional abuse and repenting is usually obtained after counseling/teaching what it is and what the person is doing,ie once they understand what is wrong; adulterers usually have a hard time just understanding that their actions were sinful because the claim to be in love or their marriage already ended etc.</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103537</link>
		<dc:creator>DKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103537</guid>
		<description>Feel free to re-post the comments, and I&#039;ll be happy to respond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feel free to re-post the comments, and I&#8217;ll be happy to respond.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103536</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103536</guid>
		<description>I apologize--didn&#039;t realize the site was inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize&#8211;didn&#8217;t realize the site was inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103533</link>
		<dc:creator>DKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103533</guid>
		<description>They were deleted because the URL you provided with your name linked to a site with inappropriate content. I consider that spam, no matter what the comment says.

And as far as what&#039;s right for a perma-blogger to do, go get your own blog and do whatever you feel like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They were deleted because the URL you provided with your name linked to a site with inappropriate content. I consider that spam, no matter what the comment says.</p>
<p>And as far as what&#8217;s right for a perma-blogger to do, go get your own blog and do whatever you feel like.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103531</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103531</guid>
		<description>Hmm. Interesting how many of my comments were earlier deleted. In addition to being wrong, DKL, are you purposefully deleting comments so as to not contend with them? Is it right for a perma-blogger to do so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. Interesting how many of my comments were earlier deleted. In addition to being wrong, DKL, are you purposefully deleting comments so as to not contend with them? Is it right for a perma-blogger to do so?</p>
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		<title>By: Thrilling apatheism &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103502</link>
		<dc:creator>Thrilling apatheism &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103502</guid>
		<description>[...] father than I thought about something. See, we had just gotten through that infamous lesson on the bitter fruits of apostasy, and I wasn&#8217;t really scared (I also think that apostasy&#8217;s been very [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] father than I thought about something. See, we had just gotten through that infamous lesson on the bitter fruits of apostasy, and I wasn&#8217;t really scared (I also think that apostasy&#8217;s been very [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nasamomdele</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103264</link>
		<dc:creator>nasamomdele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103264</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Youâ€™re still arguing beside the point. There are forms of emotional abuse and physical abuse that involve no sexual sins that are far worse than any sexual sin.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or so you say.  That may well be the case.  A rape victim might tell you that the sin committed against them included all of the above and sexual sin.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Besides, your taxonomy of sin severity fails for other reasons. Masturbation is a sexual sin, but it isnâ€™t as bad as (say) theft.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I thought I said that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;All youâ€™re doing is demonstrating a kind of weird preoccupation with sex.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interesting thought. 

I think yours is an argument of preference- an opinion, and nothing more. 
I respect that.  In matters of sin and offense, everyone is entitled to an opinion, as there are very few thin red lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Youâ€™re still arguing beside the point. There are forms of emotional abuse and physical abuse that involve no sexual sins that are far worse than any sexual sin.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or so you say.  That may well be the case.  A rape victim might tell you that the sin committed against them included all of the above and sexual sin.</p>
<blockquote><p>Besides, your taxonomy of sin severity fails for other reasons. Masturbation is a sexual sin, but it isnâ€™t as bad as (say) theft.</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought I said that.</p>
<blockquote><p>All youâ€™re doing is demonstrating a kind of weird preoccupation with sex.</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting thought. </p>
<p>I think yours is an argument of preference- an opinion, and nothing more.<br />
I respect that.  In matters of sin and offense, everyone is entitled to an opinion, as there are very few thin red lines.</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/10/the-not-so-bitter-fruits-of-apostacy.htm/comment-page-3#comment-103263</link>
		<dc:creator>DKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1333#comment-103263</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re still arguing beside the point. There are forms of emotional abuse and physical abuse that involve no sexual sins that are far worse than any sexual sin. 

Besides, your taxonomy of sin severity fails for other reasons. Masturbation is a sexual sin, but it isn&#039;t as bad as (say) theft.

All you&#039;re doing is demonstrating a kind of weird preoccupation with sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re still arguing beside the point. There are forms of emotional abuse and physical abuse that involve no sexual sins that are far worse than any sexual sin. </p>
<p>Besides, your taxonomy of sin severity fails for other reasons. Masturbation is a sexual sin, but it isn&#8217;t as bad as (say) theft.</p>
<p>All you&#8217;re doing is demonstrating a kind of weird preoccupation with sex.</p>
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