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I’m not sure I would be up to making a mix like this work on a practical level month after month after month, but it certainly is fun to hear about from a distance. Thanks for this glimpse. |
I’m happy to hear that the deaf sacrament meeting is still going out there. I think the decision to put all three language groups in one ward had to do with geography more than anything. |
ESO, This sounds exactly like the ward where we lived for 14 years! We had deaf people as well as the Spanish speaking members from our stake area. We did simultaneous translation into both ASL and Spanish. The Spanish speakers used earphones, and they took them with them to RS and Priesthood. Both deaf and Spanish speakers had their own Sunday School class. In my opinion we did OK with Sunday meetings, although there was always some excitement when a testimony was born in Spanish, because it had to first be translated to English, then into ASL. But there was enough good will to make it all work. It was hard to make the rest of the church program work. Since they lived over a much wider area than the regular ward boundaries, both deaf and Spanish people were difficult to home teach and visit teach, and they often had the most urgent needs. I always cringed to hear that a deaf person who lived 60 miles out in the country had been sick for two weeks and we were just finding out about it. |
Ardis–I currently have a stake calling, but I am sure those at a ward level feel some additional stress. Of course, I sometimes wonder if we could benefit from feeling a bit MORE stress, like about those Spanish-speaking sisters who have no translation for RS. BrianJ–yeah– we are pretty central and have the space to accommodate extra Sunday School classes, etc. Mark Brown–true that many of these members live “out there.” We also benefit tremendously from the fact that all the Deaf and Spanish speaking members are adults–should we need to accommodate, for example, interpretors in Primary or a Spanish-language Seminary, our resources could be significantly strapped. |
pure curiosity, but why is there no translation for RS? |
namakemono–I have no idea. I don’t think it is a numbers thing because I think the EQ has about equal number of Spanish speakers. It MAY be a desire not to splinter–the PH already breaks up into English EQ, ASL EQ and HP, so the break off is not so noticeable; if our 10 Spanish sisters got up and left, the remaining sisters would be quite few. Or it MAY be a lack of translators–the Spanish elders provide most of the translation, but there are a handful of RMs who feel comfortable translating too. Our only RM sister who went Spanish speaking is called into YW. Anyway, I can think of ways around both those issues, so I don’t know why there is no translation. |
The difference is that Spanish speakers can learn English. Deaf members can’t learn to hear. I’m one who believes that it’s foolish and rude to come to America with no intention of adapting. I’m tired of people expecting America to adapt to them. |
annegb–that is a difference. Peronally, I have no problem with people wanting to worship in their native tongue. |
While one can assume that people go to america and expect it to adapt to them, what ends up happening is that some fall through the cracks and never learn english due to inability or many other problems. Many do learn quite a lot of english but never to a high enough level to fully understand every concept and every term. For example, give a talk about “hubris in our lives” or “wrought, the Lords way”, it will go over the heads of some the english natives and certainly all the spanish nativos. The solution is to do what D&C 90:11 says: we’ll teach the fullness of the gospel, including sunday school classes and sacrament, in ‘their’ own tongue. The best way to do it is with stakes of Spanish speaking or Tongan speaking only etc as is done in many areas of the church. We have YSA wards or singles ward etc but not a language ward which will allow all to understand most of what is said? Problem also was that Pt Hinckley asked to see these language wards shrinking over time as people moved on to English wards but local leaders understood this as an all out instruction to close down language units which wasn’t what the prophet actually said. |
I’m a little late here, but I’ve got to disagree with annegb. While many people do learn foreign languages, it’s certainly not possible that all can, especially as they get older. I’d hate to exclude all the members of the church in the US from worshipping if they can’t speak English. There were Danish and Swedish and all sorts of foreign languages wards in Utah and Idaho when many members of the church were first-generation immigrants from Europe. By the time most everyone was second-generation or more, those wards weren’t needed anymore. But they’re needed again. What makes me sad is that language is enough of a barrier that we have to separate people based solely on that. I know there probably isn’t a better way, but I feel like I lose something when my ward doesn’t have anyone who doesn’t speak English. I’m glad to hear about a ward that’s making it work. Thanks for the great post, ESO. |
And of course, most major cities in the world have English-speaking units designed largely for the Americans abroad who are notorious for learning no one’s language. I spoke with a woman last year who has lived most of the last 30 years in Japan and is married to a Japanese man and still attends the English ward–I was quite shocked. I was interested to read recently about the creation of a Swahili ward in UT. The wards in Kenya don’t even use Swahili–they are all conducted in English. It made me laugh to think you would have to move to UT to worship in Swahili. |
ESO, my understanding is that most of the congregants of that Swahili ward in Utah weren’t Kenyans, mainly just the leadership was. I think the rank-and-file were from various other countries, where their primary language was their family/tribal language, and Swahili was their 2nd language, and their English skills were low or non-existent. Though Swahili is the official, or “an” official, language in some countries, my understanding is that for many people, their tribe/regional language is their primary tongue, and Swahili is secondary, spoken only outside of the home or hometown. Is that correct? |
I try to be understanding of those who immigrate here and don’t know the language but there are times I really agree with this sentiment. There’s a lovely woman in our ward who’s been in the ward for at least 3 years (the amount of time I’ve been there). And if she wants to bear her testimony, her husband has to stand with her at the pulpit to do so because, after at least three years, she doesn’t speak any English! She can’t hold a calling unless there’s another member available who can translate for her and I’m sure church is a rather boring place to be. It’s actually fairly sad to watch. I’m sure she’s missing out on quite a lot and our ward is losing something because she can’t fully participate. |
Bookslinger–yup–Swahili is the second (or third) language for probably 98% of it’s users. There are just too many languages in that neck of the woods to think of worshipping in their own tongues–the LDS Church only really exists in metropolitan areas where people use lingua francas, anyway. Still, for Kenyans or Ugandans or Tanzanians, it would feel more natural than English. |
If there’s one place where I’m disposed to make adjustments — whether it’s for language, or physical disability, or even curbing my sarcastic tongue — it’s where church service is concerned. I had more than one language teacher tell me in the days when I studied languages (my junior year at high school included French, German, Spanish and Latin, and the pace picked up once I got to BYU) that no matter how fluent you get in a new language, you will always — always — use your native language when you do mathematical calculations and when you offer heart-felt prayer. Some things don’t translate. |
Putting it the way Amira, Ardis & ESO put it, I see a different side to the issue. My comments are for a different discussion and I won’t wax poetic here. |
Aside from the language differences, there are also cultural differences between our Western European culture (or North American version of Western European culture) and other areas of the world. Our own cultural contexts are almost invisible to ourselves, since it is natural to take one’s own context as a “given”. Even trying to be aware of other cultural contexts is hard unless you have lived in the other culture. We just don’t know how someone else is processing a given situation, word, phrase, or event. These misunderstandings can go deep, and can impede smooth interaction between people. It takes a lot of patience and humility (things which I generally lack) to overcome the differences and arrive at understanding. It’s difficult enough to amalgamate the various cultures within the United States into the church context. Many of our converts, even multi-generational US citizens, feel uncomfortable trying to fit the middle-class suburban white-bread mould of most of our wards. As second-generation immigrants (the children of immigrants) grow up in the church, go away to school, get jobs and move, the assimilation occurs. But as long as we have continuous waves of new immigrants, I see the need for non-English language wards, with leadership provided by longer term immigrant members. |