You just have a bad attitude :).

We had a baby recently. We had no immediate family around; I was a first-year law student, and behind in my classes because of the long labor.
My mother-in-law showed up a couple of days later, but was more of a burden than a blessing.
The four families who brought us dinner, when my wife was still too tired to cook, and I was overwhelmed with my classes, were lifesavers.

I would say that these folks were abusing the tradition of service in the church. I would have politely told them NO. The reason that visitors come and visit around the time that newborns come is usually to help out. So help out already!!!!

Wise bishops and EQP’s weed these type of projects out hopefully before they get started.

We were appalled that the husband (who was a physician so clearly capable of cooking)

non sequitur?

This really resonates–recent issues in our ward have been to decide that elective costmetic surgery does not require meals (could plan in advance), and a woman who knows her pregnancies require bedrest/feeding tubes choosing to have a third child and have the RS babysit and bring in meals several times a week to get her through. Argh. I’ve been praying for charity…

Good for you Jota you have learned how to be self reliant. I agree with you Devyn.

Jota G – Are there multiple wards in your building? If so, attend the other ward when your MIL is attending…

OK – a serious note here.

There is a growing trend that help is not needed in situations where a father works from home, or works from home a great deal.

Let’s dispel this myth right now. JUST BECAUSE a father/husband works from home does not mean he has any more *time* than he would have if he drives 30 minutes each way to an office. LOTS AND LOTS of home-based employees actually *work* when they are at home. They may have a room in their house where they close the door and are not watching children, doing laundry, running out to perform service at all hours during the day, etc.

At some point we just need to listen carefully to people who request service and trust their judgment. I agree with one of the stated comments that it’s not “automatic” after every hospital stay…

Service – when and how to provide it – can be tough. I’m expecting my second child in 8 days (hooray!) and I’ve already been asked if people can bring in meals. I was highly resistant to it the first time around but since I ended up having an unexpected c-section and my husband had to return to work, I accepted but rather begrudgingly. This time around, my husband gets a week of paternity leave and my parents will be showing up by the time I’m discharged from the hospital. I would feel like an idiot having ward members bring us food (not to mention food for my parents, too) with family around to help.

However, I just took a meal to a couple whose newborn twins were still in the hospital. The new mother’s mom was visiting and helping them go back and forth to the hospital and providing emotional support. I felt that while the babies weren’t home yet it would be a nice treat for the new parents and the new grandmother to be able to come home and collapse rather than try to decide what to make for dinner. It was a simple dinner for three and they seemed very grateful for the support. I think sometimes this type of service is just a way of letting people know they’re cared for. What else are you going to do for new parents? Bringing in a meal is service but probably the least obtrusive kind you can provide.

In my ward I don’t think the compassionate service leader actually gets involved with the meals for new parents operations. In my experience, it’s the visiting teacher of the new mom who makes the arrangements and asks for volunteers. And I think that’s how it should be. We’ve had plenty of people have babies in our ward where I heard nothing about taking meals in because the VT handled it among jut a few people who know the couple/family a little better. And the CSL didn’t have to be concerned about it.

I agree (though somewhat reluctantly) that no service is ever “wasted,” but I do think we have to be careful about expecting too much of ward members and relying on them to serve at a moment’s notice and in a way that creates resentment.

1. Kent (MC) – I won’t dispute that assertion

2. adam e. – I think you are getting at a return on your service which is important to me. If I have limited time, then I want to make sure I am really helping someone.

3. Timj – that to me is a good example of a needed service. However, when your MIL was there, I would venture to guess that you no longer needed meals

4. Heather – Thanks – interesting points – my wife actually began talking to the husbands a few months before the due date to volunteer to teach them to cook and prep food for the freezer for the big day. No one took her up on the offer. Conversely, no one that I know of has ever refused the meals when offered. When we had our kids, no one offered as they knew what our response would be – we prefer to be as self-sufficient as possible. One other interesting point – when my wife was RSP, she made the EQ trade off on providing meals for members – that did not always sit well with the EQP, but, to his credit, he did it.

5. bbell – amen!

6. Michelle Glauser – just call your Home teachers I am sure they would love to bring a meal by!

queuno’s #13 is brilliant.

Devyn: wouldn’t this be easier to address if your wife worked through visiting teachers to assess needs? Rather than abruptly announce* the end of postpartum meals, announce that you will no longer make the assumption that “every family is the same and needs exactly 3 meals, etc.” and will instead ask the visiting teachers to discover individual needs. I don’t see how many people could argue with that approach, and I’d bet you’d see a reduction in frivolous meal requests…maybe?

And a side note: my family was blessed several times with meals from our ward during times we felt we were just about to break down and “lose it.” If people in your ward seem passionate about your wife’s “tampering” with this service, it may be because they harbor real gratitude for those who have served them in the past and see this change as an attack.

*a caricature, perhaps, of what your wife did, but apparently that is how it was perceived by your ward.

12. HeidiAnn – that I could agree with IF the couple/family is overwhelmed. If they are just fine after family leaves, then so be it.

15. queuno – agreed completely. We should wait for people to ask or act when we know service is needed and not act on any birth.

16. Lon – thanks for the comment. I think you have some fair points.

17. Paroled from the Primary Presidency Perfect examples of needed service in my mind. I don’t know I have had some pretty useless service opportunities – I can think of some really useless moves, taking people to the store and them telling me they “forgot” their money so I bought the food for them, etc… Perhaps I have lived in a “needy” ward too long.

18. JA Benson – yep – We had a woman in our ward who wanted meals three months after her child was born – response was “sorry we are not meals on wheels”

anon (24) – I understand that there are difficult, even extreme cases. This is a case for the bishop/RS president, perhaps, to address. Perhaps a nanny could be paid for out of fast-offering funds.

long-term situations are not really meant to be covered by the RS sisters forever, as i understand the welfare guidelines.

Not necessarily true or false. We do what we are needed to do. The bishop is the final arbiter of this.

do stay at home dads bring meals over (do they even know of the RS sign up sheet)? i feel like the RS bears the burden of this, much like the EQ helps with moves. not much gender equality in service yet…

The RS typically coordinates the efforts, but there’s no reason why the priesthood can’t be involved.

BrianJ–that would be a great idea in a ward where visiting teaching actually works. My experience (in wards near and similar to Devyn’s) is that when a ward’s resources are stretched that thin, the active visiting/home teachers frequently have 8 or 10 families assigned to them, which is more than anyone with another job can possibly keep up with. If visiting teaching is working well enough to provide that kind of information, it’s probably not a ward where the kind of service Devyn’s talking about is a huge burden.

I am really struck by the self sufficiency comments. (And not necessarily in a bad way.) I know we really emphasize that in our teachings. But we also teach that flesh fails – even our own.

I’ve always seen those meals as a community building effort. An acknowledgment that no one can go it alone. I agree with fda (in a way). Those meals tightened a small Utah farming community. And I can see how the tradition would weaken in wards where geographic proximity is harder to achieve. It’s no biggie to hop over to the next street and drop off a meal. Taking a 20 minute drive there and a 20 minute drive back is a much bigger deal.

I do take a little (very, very little ) offense at the idea that many (if any) do this to feel good about themselves. Most (if not all) have felt the benefit in their lives and are aghast at sitting on the sidelines and watching someone else deal with the challenge alone.

I’ve thought about this issue with regard to the tradition of elders quorums helping families move. About a year ago I helped a girl I hometaught pack up a moving van along with several other men in the ward. I was happy to help, but I couldn’t help but wonder if it would be more economical to get a professional mover to do the job, once you added up all the man hours we put into it. I mentioned this to a friend and he was appalled that I suggested it. I do agree that it is nice to help out and that it strengthens friendships, etc., but I think that sometimes we get complacent with these “traditional” services that we overlook opportunities that are more necessary.

In line with many of the comments, I want to point out that service crosses a line when it becomes a burden to the recipient.

We had a generous paternity leave when our first was born, so I was home for over a month. We didn’t really ask for any help but were fine with people stopping by and many brought things along.

My wife, who was on some dietary restrictions during her pregnancy was counting the days until she could again partake of some favorite foods.

First day home from the hospital, our home teacher, who’s wife was in the RS presidency, came by to check on us and saw me preparing a particular dish that was apparently foreign to him. Eyes a little wide he asked “what is that?” We assume that he reported home to his wife, because starting that same evening and for the next two weeks we received two unsolicited meals a day.

I think one of the great benefits of living where the Church is smaller is that the programs of the Church tend not to be fully functional, but the service still occurs in a more organic way. Everyone knows everyone and is aware of when help is needed, things are usually taken care of before the RS/EQ presidencies need to get involved. Sure there are always the chronic cases, but for the most part it works without sign-up sheets and guilt trips.

Perhaps I have lived in a “needy” ward too long.

When I served as RS President (for all of a year), it was in a very needy ward. The members were very emotionally needy and many were economically needy as well. The Home and Visiting Teaching setups were a mess and the ward members were attached to tradition more than doctrine. And yet there were very few willing to actually serve others in the ward. I’ve found that in these wards the problem usually isn’t just the type of service being requested (though heaven knows I got some unusual requests) but the also the few number of people willing/able to offer service. In a ward with about 150-200 “active” members, I think we had about 15 people who were reliable enough and self sufficient enough to offer support to others in need. When the other 185 are all asking for help on a regular basis, the support system becomes far too strained and even small acts of service can seem like large impositions.

This problem was actually part of the reason (sh! don’t tell) that we moved out of that ward. And as we’ve been looking for homes to buy in our current area, it has been one of the reasons I refuse to move back to that ward. Maybe that’s selfish of me but I like my current ward where there’s a little more balance between those “in need” and those who are able to serve.

Have you considered changing wards? Now’s a great time to buy a house… Just ask your current Bishop to find some one to rent your current house so you can buy a new one! I’m sure the ward could help you place an ad, show the house to potential buyers when you’re not available, and come help you clean every day so the house is in great condition for unexpected viewings. Then just talk to the EQ President about making sure they’re ready to help you move as soon as someone makes you an offer and get the RS to start a sign-up sheet for helping you pack, providing babysitting, and making meals.

15. JUST BECAUSE a father/husband works from home does not mean he has any more *time* than he would have if he drives 30 minutes each way to an office.

Actually doesn’t this mean that this father would have 60 minutes more than otherwise? Unless of course he’s working while commuting. But I also know from experience that working from home also doesn’t entail the same amount of time getting ready (i.e., ironing the shirt, etc.).

This type of service is far more about bonds between children of God than it is about the actual service rendered. Even if the receiver does not understand that, it is still valuable to give.

And I have found myself in a situation where I’m extremely reluctant to ask for help or acknowledge my need for it, yet every loaf of bread given me has brought me to tears. Not just because it was needed, but because it meant that someone cared and tried to do their best to help.

Kristine, 27: Having been in a branch stretched at least as thin as “8-10 families per companionship,” I actually considered that in my comment. Unless a visiting teacher has all eight of her families giving birth at once, it’s a small matter for her to coordinate the meals (if necessary) for the one who really needs them. If the visiting teacher is unreliable (for whatever reason), the leadership probably already knows this and usually knows who might need service, so they can step in (bypass the VT). And if a visiting teacher, already taxed with so many sisters to visit, doesn’t get around to coordinating meals for the new mom who has her MIL staying for a month to help with the new baby—well, that’s expected in a ward/branch where VTing barely gets done at all.

Wow, Mormons help each other? If someone from my ward showed up with meals for me and my wife after a pregnancy/death/rough patch, I’d ask to make sure that they had the right address. I’m not being sarcastic in the slightest: pretty much every ward I’ve been in sees this kind of “service” taking place within a very tight circle of people who know each other quite well. Folks outside that circle for whatever reason can show up to Church with an arm cut off and I bet nobody would hand them a paper towel.

Pardon my bitterness. I *have* gone through a couple of very rough patches, and folks in Church *have* known about them, and I can name exactly two instances in which we received any attention at all, let alone real help. (God bless you, Home Teacher #1 and Ward Mission leader #1.)

Jota G #42 & TStevens #46 – I would be mortified if the Bishop came over to help out my family and found such a scene with my husband playing computer games. I don’t begrudge anyone some down time when life gets tough (I waste plenty of time watching television and it helps me relax) but if this husband was, indeed, “complaining [about] how overwhelmed he was and how the ward needed to help” then I think the Bishop’s response was just about right.

It doesn’t take a genious to do the dishes or run a load of laundry. And assuming the wife was in the home but not able to do it herself, I would think her husband could follow her directions if given from the bedroom or the couch. I’ve walked my husband through making chicken picatta from the living room while sitting and breathing through contractions and a chef he is not! I would think a couple of dinners would certainly help out a husband feeling overwhelmed under such circumstances, but expecting the RS to step in and do everything is a bit much.

MAC #48 – “Members of the Church are human and approaching someone who is offish, guarded, difficult, or perpetually offended, while the charitable thing to do, is still difficult.”

Hear, hear! I have a friend who moved to another part of the country and complained the members weren’t friendly or helpful at all. But she was definitely gaurded and refused to reach out to anyone who didn’t seem to take a shine to her or her children immediately. I don’t know if this was the case with our Bro. Jones but I do think there are times we need to open our mouths and let people know we’re hurting or need help. Sometimes offering help is just as difficult as receiving it even when we know someone else is in need.

did the EQ really provide meals, or did they go home and ask their wives to cook a meal (in which case, surely it is the RS sisters providing)?

I remember having my first baby and reluctantly allowing my VT to bring a meal….she was so adamant. My mother was coming so I didn’t really need it.
I remember when my husband was in the hospital for surgery….no problem, MIL was coming, we don’t need anything. When they opened him up, they said cancer. Meals showed up at my house unannounced. I was at the hospital all day and night because his recovery was difficult. When I came home my crying one year old clung to me. My MIL was devastated, plus she was old, so two little kids were difficult.
I cried because of the genuine love those meals represented. One person even brought a meal to me in the hospital. It still means so very much to me.
Go ahead and say no if you don’t need a meal. I didn’t need meals for baby #3 & 4 because my mother came, you know?
But I now realize that when something difficult happens people do not know what to do or how to help. Bringing food is it. It is a way to say “I know this is hard, and I care, so I am doing something even though it isn’t going to cure your cancer.”
Having a baby IS a big deal. Sometimes, it goes smoothly. But sometimes having a baby is really, really tramatic. Sometimes the woman’s life was in danger, the baby’s life was in danger. Sometimes the parents are overwhelmed with caring for this baby. Sometimes visiting relatives are clueless or overwhelmed themselves.
Bringing a meal is just a small way to show our support for each other.

#50

I am not trying to excuse the behavior of anyone who was unfriendly or uncharitable. I am just saying that in a group of people, we each as individuals have much more control over how people treat us than we are sometimes willing to admit.

You are saying yourself that your wife has become a little gun shy. Justified or not, that in-and-of-itself is probably a factor in perpetuating the situation.

I hate to hear that your newly converted wife had a bad experience. Regardless of where the fault lies, at the end of the day, the people who most impacted by and are best equipped to affect a change in that situation is your wife and by extension you.

Either your wife changed the meals program partly because of her “bad” experience.
Or the Lord knew of your wife’s bad experience and directed someone to call her to the position so she could change the program on account of it.

I’m guessing it’s more likely due to #1, which I don’t necessarily think is a bad thing. Simply because your wife was called by someone authorized of the Lord to fill this position, the people in the ward should be supporting and sustaining her as they have covenanted to do so in what she tries to do with the calling. It’s no ones business to take offense at her actions.

That being said it’s always wise when you’re in a called position to wonder why you are really making a decision (is it a mix of what we rationalize is right based on our personal desires–and if that is the case is it even negative?). Could it hurt to have people bring meals? Well if people are poor and can’t afford it I suppose. But people all over are poor and manage to buy cable/sat TV. Maybe this is denying a service opportunity no matter how small it is? But as she probably concluded it could be better if she directed their service in other ways.

I can say that the meals my family received were entirely unnecessary when we had our kids, but were more than appreciated and gave us the opportunity to be grateful and desire to help others in turn.

56. a random John – seems like a great approach to me

57. sam – thanks for your perspective Sam. I think that in our ward, it is not due to people’s poverty that they can’t bring meals but often they don’t have a car, and the volume is extreme – I would say in our ward of 130 active members, there are somewhere around 2 babies born a month. So if you figure 30 families capable and willing to bring a mea, you have each family doing that every other month or more on top of everything else to be one. That is the problem in wards like mine.

58. annegb – I think you hit the key to service – it is a form of love and maybe we should find alternative ways to express it beyond meals if it is possible

39 – Most people I know who work from home end up taking the 60 minutes (or whatever) of saved commute time and just work extra.

Anyway, my point was that everyone I know who works from home, actually works from home. It’s quite common for me to look up at 6pm and think, “OK, what do we need to do about dinner?”, just like it might be if I walked in the door at 6pm…

You love who you serve. Giving and receiving service are opportunities for connection and friendship in wards but I also wish that the scope for service could be widened and would not include just meals.

However, unfortunately, a lot of people don’t have the time or resources to contribute more and meals are sometimes the best way they can help out a neighbor. I just don’t see this as an either or situation. Why not continue meals to new mothers and those that are ill in addition to looking for other service opportunities? Why all the resentment about helping people move? Perhaps the people that you help move can’t afford a professional mover? Perhaps the family you give a meal to (even though it seems like they are sufficient enough from the outside) really are in need?

This seems to be less about service and more about judging the needs of others as an observer. Our judgement is often unfair though. I really like Mosiah-especially the chapter that talks about service. It isn’t our place to judge anothers need. When we are asked for help we should try to help them with a loving heart–regardless if we think they need it or not.

Krista (63) – I agree with all of your points, but I think that sometimes our “service model” is too much based on habit and not on actual needs. That’s why I made a comment earlier (33) that sometimes, service becomes a burden.

Let’s expand the thinking. Maybe the family with a new baby doesn’t need meals. But what it really needs is something to ferry the kids to soccer practice for a couple of weeks. Maybe a sister works and needs VTs who are available during the evening… Maybe the meal that someone’s going to force on a family is dangerous due to dietary conditions…

We should do a better job of seeking out opportunities to serve. We should sometimes do things that people could do for themselves (moving, perhaps). But we should get signoff on these things before we do them…

But a lot of people won’t serve at all if it is more involved than a meal. I look at meals as the “very least” we can do for each other.

Then we have to find ways to get those people to serve, perhaps by direct assignment. A bad service model (“oh, just go give them a meal”) is worse than no service model. Let’s not perpetuate bad service models just because we think the members won’t serve. Maybe we need to be open about the fact that service is more than a meal, and often it’s about things *other* than meals.

While on the subject of meals, I’m less concerned with someone getting a pasta dish they didn’t particularly want than the meals forced on families who end up dumping them out because of dietary restrictions, allergies, etc. There should *never* be a meal provided without a conversation about what the family can eat. Never assume. And if it’s too much of a bother for someone to ask first, then don’t provide the meal. It’s insulting for a member to say, “well, I’m providing this service; they’ll take whatever they’re given.” That’s the definition to me of service-as-a-burden, wasted service.

I’m taking dinner in today to a young woman who has four kids, she just had a baby. The pregnancy and delivery were very difficult. I decided she might be anemic. So I’m taking steak and baked potatoes. And corn on the cob and salad. And mushrooms.

I have this good way of cooking steak, you heat the oven to 500 degrees and heat a cast iron pan, then you cook the steak on both sides for 2 minutes and put it in the oven for about five minutes, turning the steak. And it’s done. It might be vice versa. It’s really good though, and perfect every time.

When we were poor, I took stuff like spaghetti. It’s quick and inexpensive in today’s world. In fact, I almost made spaghetti, because kids always like it. But then I thought, the kids can eat peanut butter if they don’t like steak.

Now that I’m more financially solvent, I try to take “treat” meals to people. But it’s easier now that I’m older and have more money.

I think it’s kind of funny to hear guys discussing what to take in for meals. No offense.

Compelled service is not a gift, it is slavery. A family can request help, but if giving that help is morally obligatory under any and all circumstances, it is no more a gift, but rather tyranny.

That is ultimately the problem with abusing the good will of others as well as with resenting a gift you didn’t receive.

It is a difference in a degree but not in kind. Resenting or acting cold to someone unjustly is certainly a form of “payback”.

A request for voluntary service should be just that: a request – not an order. Certainly in any sustained relationship there is an element of obligation. However, social obligation is a fragile and sensitive thing – something that can easily be injured if not destroyed through relatively minor abuses. It is the sort of thing that members should have a hair trigger sensibility about.

To take give a personal example, a few years back the ward level finance management in the U.S. was in what I would call a state of relative chaos. I was finding it difficult to impossible to properly correct a mistake related to the handling of a year old bounced tithing check in the virtually irreconcilable unit and church level finance systems of the time, and the nice figure from the Church finance department said that if I didn’t fix it, they would “pull funding for the whole stake”.

Needless to say I was rather put out by such a naked attempt at manipulation, to no small extent because nearly any U.S. stake is a net funder of the Church as a whole not the other way around. Given the structure of the Church, he was making a threat that couldn’t be carried out without effectively excommunicating a whole stake – shutting the doors, turning out the lights, and suffering the subsequent loss in tithing contributions. i.e. if you don’t figure out how to fix this accounting mistake (without any help on our part) we are going to punish nearly everyone you know and love. Nice stake you’ve got there, hate to see anything happen to it…

71. Mark D. – well said. Sometimes we goad people into performing service for those who we think need it, but they may not actually need it.

72. annegb – that is true, but how many people would tell someone “no” – it is rare for someone in the Church to say no to any request. We just grin and bear it despite how much it may negatively impact our own life. I think we see that behavior a lot with callings – sometimes it is ok to say no to a calling if the timing is not good. Not all callings are inspired in my mind.

74. Sean – yes I should have a better attitude about things, but I think that I should also have the ability to say no to service requests.

I believe most people feel being called to be bishop is way more inspired than being called to be nursery leader. I know people who would “serve” as bishop for 20 years and refuse to serve in the nursery (or other dreaded) calling for 20 minutes.

You know I’d say no Devyn. And I realize the per pressure in our church is immense. So many things backwards in God’s temporal church. You did the best you could (referring to your title post). The Compassionate service leader erred by not considering you.

Bottom line: we all need to think for ourselves. Sometimes common sense can and should trump compassion.

Krista – thanks for the detailed comment. I am very impressed with what you do with all those kids. I guess I see the cop-out wherein it is a bit too easy at times to throw a meal at a problem rather than go serve in a food pantry. However, in cases like yours I am impressed that you can do as much as you do.

I also agree with you and communicating with both the server and servee is critical to make sure needs are actually being met. Assigning service is also a bad call typically as you outline.

Yes, it is raging against the machine, but I think the machine needs some tweaking in this case so that it is not an automatic thing but something that occurs when true service is needed.

As for the 6 adults, without disclosing too much, 5 of the six (who had not had a child) were extremely capable. In fact, the Mother was wearing an apron when we dropped the food off. I think it was a matter of being “owed” the meal given they had dropped them off to others before. That is when I see it as service wasted.