Devyn,

The inner city is so depressing that way; my charity often fails there and from time to time in Utah County as well. Recently I took a taxi ride, and the driver and I struck up a conversation- he told me he is trying to get his young son to do well in school, and his son won’t take schooling seriously because he wants to grow up to “be a playa.” Unbelievable.
I recently got an email from a friend in Los Angeles letting me know that he has sired another kid out of wedlock (with a different mother than the first kid he sired out of wedlock). He was looking for my congratulations, which is really depressing. The fact that 20% of Angelenos are on public assistance of some kind is not something that can be blamed on capitalism or historical disadvantage or what have you; those of us who have lived there know better.

Great post, Dyven. Thanks.

Dan Ellsworth – it seems to be almost a cultural issue that is really difficult to fathom. Although you find other cultural behaviors that are just as baffling – wealthy communities worry about other stupid things – like Nantucket worried about windmills that are 50 miles offshort but they are all raving environmentalists.

2. fda – definitely NOT moving to Belmont – I could write a post about my charity failing in wards like that as well.

4. Peter LLC – well you have to admit it was an interesting exchange and honestly, unless one has lived in this type of environment with children, it is hard to fathom the total disgust and anger that builds up over time – I can certainly relate to DKL

DKL does have an amusing way of describing the state of play that could be considered interesting, but honestly, what fresh insights does he offer? His list of urban ills* suggests that at best he is a late-comer to the problem of urban decay, and the exchange that followed offered precious little in the way of the enlightenment he finds lacking in his audience.

And what is so difficult to fathom about the undesirability of living in an environment that inspires loathing in its inhabitants? I guess you’ll have to take my word for it, but I’d be among the last half-dozen people on earth to wag a finger at someone for moving from an environment in which they do not feel comfortable into one in which they do.

*youth gathered on the corner whose jeans are so baggy that they have to hold them up with one hand listening to rap music and exchanging obscenities

chanson – agreed, but not in my city. I know there are some nice areas in downtown Boston or NYC though

7. Peter – I will let DKL speak for himself

8. John Mansfield – good point but unfortunately not in the US in many cities

I may have been too terse. My point was mainly that wonderful, livable city centers may shuffle things around but not really change the problem. Some Parisian could probably write the same things Devyn S. did. The only difference would be that he would be letting us know why he’s had his fill of life in the suburbs, but with the same concerns that Americans associate with inner cities.

# 11 John,

Good Point. I would tend to say that increased proximity and activity associated with an urban core generally amplify “problems”. Though it might be true that they amplify pleasures, as well.

Sometimes when I’m walking behind those kids with their pants falling down, I say, “I can see your underwear, I can pretty much see your butt, how are you keeping those up?” I wonder how they do keep them up. I wonder if they pin them or something. I would so love to “pants” them. Well, they’re just asking to be pants, it wouldn’t take much effort, that’s for sure.

Some cities are worse than others; Las Vegas, for instance, is an armpit. It has nice areas and I know the church is strong, but the city reeks of hopelessness.

I’m with Devyn and DKL. I often think if I were a poor inner city black kid, I’d hitchhike to Iowa or something, to a small town and live out of dumpsters and work my way up. It’d be better than standing around on a street corner scaring the crap out of little kids walking to school.

jimbob – sorry my comment was a bit flip, but I think living in a ward which is diversified across socioeconomic areas is optimal while living in a city with a good school system. While Belmont is a great city and there are some great people in the wards there, we have had significant challenges there given our ward is seen as the “poor” ward in the stake. As for my charity towards the poor, I never said my charity towards the poor was questioned but my charity toward living in the inner city is challenged.

My parents raised a large family in an inner-city environment (not as bad as Devyn described, but certainly not upper West Side) and I think that each of us kids interacted with and were effected differently by that experience.

If you look at the negative impact on each individual, you get the full spectrum, from one kid who rejected ghetto-fication to the extreme (referred to as the closet Utahn) to one who has rejected LDS values to the point of refusing to participate in family activities if they involve any aspect of the Gospel.

Interesting enough, I think the ones that thrived are the ones who found a happy medium, friends both inside and outside the Church, social activities both at the Church and within the larger community.

Contrast that with the cousins from the LDS side of the family, who mostly grew up in a medium/small sized, high-quality of life city, the success rate as far as retaining LDS values and overall life success (considering activity in the Church, education, marriage and family, financial security) is slightly lower. Hardly a scientific method, but I don’t think that we were handicapped by having grown up in urban environment.

My wife is at the other end of the spectrum, a very small community with almost complete brain-drain. The overall success rate for the kids who don’t get out is abysmally low. We love to visit, we love to spend time there, but when we see the teenagers/young adults we can’t bring ourselves to raise our own children there, the odds are just too scary.

so where are you moving then?

@20 sad but true. been there, burned out.

19. MAC – my wife was from the small town extreme like your wife and your description fits her small Oregon town to a T. So perhaps moderation in all things is a good mantra here…

20. a random John hmm, you were around during that era huh? I know Curtis N/Susan B very well who worked with those youth as well as a bunch of the youth who interacted a lot with our wards youth. Interesting question on whether it was in vain – I know we have wonderful relationships with the youth we worked with and many still come by our house. Are they all active in the Church? Actually, only one is of the dozen or so we keep contact with, but all are contributing to society. However, everyone of them acknowledges the Church played a key role in saving them from their surroundings. I see it as a win.

21. fda – I don’t know, but if I had my choice in the MA area, it would be into the Lynnfield, Arlington or one of the South Shore Wards.

E – thanks – I think the “it takes a village” is a perfect statement that describes how we would like our kids raised so we need to find a different village but keep the villagers we like from this one.

JA Benson – Thanks, my wife and I look back on the experience with the youth as one of the greatest and hardest experiences of our lives. We learned so much about parenting (usually what not to do) as well as so much about love. It was one of those experiences where the timing was perfect, if we had had kids at the time, there is no way we could have done it. So perhaps God knew that it was the perfect time for us to learn some new things and I will be ever grateful for that…

I haven’t lived in any environment so utterly depressing as you describe. The cycle of dependence and depravity must be vicious.

Your essay here actually casts some light on the Old Testament for me. I’ve frequently wondered what reasons there might be for destroying every man, woman, and child in a conquered city. At the very least, perhaps, it ends a cycle.

I pray we have advanced sufficiently since those days that we will have better ways of solving some painfully vexing maladies without resorting to genocide.

Devyn S: unless one has lived in this type of environment with children, it is hard to fathom the total disgust and anger that builds up over time.

This hit’s the nail on the head. This post does as good a job as can be done of expressing what it comes to. It did strike me as odd that we’ve heard people insist on the importance of visiting or living in other countries, nobody thinks twice about pontificating at a safe distance about problems like the ones that you describe.

Peter LLC, I understand your frustration at the outcome of our last little exchange. Here’s my advice for the short term: you’d appear to be less wounded if you didn’t seem so anxious to make this post all about me.

B-Tip: Not all inner-cities are experiencing the renaissance you describe. And, not all inner-cities are in the _downtown_ location.

Indianapolis’s downtown area has had its renaissance, but there are plenty of inner-city areas outside of the downtown proper.

Inner-cities can also grow and subsume surrounding neighborhoods.

Things go in cycles as things grow, decay, and are renewed/rebuilt. What was once an abandoned inner-city housing project was torn down and is now yuppyfied condos. What was once a middle-class suburb is now “inner-city.”

One of the bad things that rent-control has done in New York City is to artificially stop that cycle.