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	<title>Comments on: A Declaration of Independence&#8230; from Church Lesson Manuals</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm</link>
	<description>Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People</description>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109083</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Didnâ€™t you know, rbc? Most of the work of the Church is done by women, and just initialed by the brethren. ;) &lt;/i&gt;

Hehehe.  My MIL used to write primary manuals and hinted at this all the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Didnâ€™t you know, rbc? Most of the work of the Church is done by women, and just initialed by the brethren. ;) </i></p>
<p>Hehehe.  My MIL used to write primary manuals and hinted at this all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Orwell</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109077</link>
		<dc:creator>Orwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know Ardis, I&#039;d be willing to sign a petition to get Thomas B. Marsh and Simonds Ryder excommunicated from all church lessons on apostasy - Hiram Page, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Ardis, I&#8217;d be willing to sign a petition to get Thomas B. Marsh and Simonds Ryder excommunicated from all church lessons on apostasy &#8211; Hiram Page, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109076</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t you know, rbc? Most of the work of the Church is done by women, and just initialed by the brethren. ;)

My visiting teaching partner thanked me this morning for using stories other than the ones in the manual (she actually reads the manual and was aware I had changed them!) that were already so familiar. I told her that the stories I&#039;d used were the events that had caused Joseph to ask for and receive the scriptures used in the lesson -- I wanted her to know that I wasn&#039;t going very far afield from the manual. Might as well allay any nervousness over my adaptations by stressing how they arise from the approved lesson, I thought.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t you know, rbc? Most of the work of the Church is done by women, and just initialed by the brethren. ;)</p>
<p>My visiting teaching partner thanked me this morning for using stories other than the ones in the manual (she actually reads the manual and was aware I had changed them!) that were already so familiar. I told her that the stories I&#8217;d used were the events that had caused Joseph to ask for and receive the scriptures used in the lesson &#8212; I wanted her to know that I wasn&#8217;t going very far afield from the manual. Might as well allay any nervousness over my adaptations by stressing how they arise from the approved lesson, I thought.</p>
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		<title>By: rbc</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109074</link>
		<dc:creator>rbc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:8. Are you crazy?  More than one week with the Isiah chapters from the BOM?!?! Thanks to a combination of snow sundays, ward and stake conference and another local meeting that preempted GD, we had too many lessons and not enough Sundays. It took about a half second to decide to cut the Isaih lesson from the lesson plan. 

I could not agree more with Ardis&#039;s comments. I nominate her to be in charge of SS churchwide. While I think it&#039;s a preisthood calling, I don&#039;t think it has to be. She can do as well as any priesthood holder, imo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:8. Are you crazy?  More than one week with the Isiah chapters from the BOM?!?! Thanks to a combination of snow sundays, ward and stake conference and another local meeting that preempted GD, we had too many lessons and not enough Sundays. It took about a half second to decide to cut the Isaih lesson from the lesson plan. </p>
<p>I could not agree more with Ardis&#8217;s comments. I nominate her to be in charge of SS churchwide. While I think it&#8217;s a preisthood calling, I don&#8217;t think it has to be. She can do as well as any priesthood holder, imo.</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109064</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the best lessons I had was when my humanities teacher put a really cool video to &quot;We Didn&#039;t Start the Fire.&quot;  I like music involved with my learning experiences.  Preferrably with a beat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the best lessons I had was when my humanities teacher put a really cool video to &#8220;We Didn&#8217;t Start the Fire.&#8221;  I like music involved with my learning experiences.  Preferrably with a beat.</p>
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		<title>By: Devyn S.</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109023</link>
		<dc:creator>Devyn S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like Ardis&#039; suggestion.  I have been in Primary for 5 years and to me the manuals are useful to give me some ideas for activities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Ardis&#8217; suggestion.  I have been in Primary for 5 years and to me the manuals are useful to give me some ideas for activities.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109008</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;presidentâ€™s wife used a clip from â€œThe Karate Kidâ€ to illustrate a point about something that I donâ€™t recall right nowâ€¦&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps to illustrate that if you like a movie enough then you can pretend it has something to do with the Gospel. But seriously, I know that Karate Kid is true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;presidentâ€™s wife used a clip from â€œThe Karate Kidâ€ to illustrate a point about something that I donâ€™t recall right nowâ€¦&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Perhaps to illustrate that if you like a movie enough then you can pretend it has something to do with the Gospel. But seriously, I know that Karate Kid is true.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109006</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[queuno: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Just once, Iâ€™d like to see a priesthood or auxiliary leader stand up and ask a teacher who says this, â€œSo what gives you the right to assume weâ€™ll get anything out of this?â€&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

True story: I&#039;m in elders quorum, second year of Brigham Young lesson manual. Teacher stands up, admits to procrastinating all week, declares that we&#039;ll just &quot;follow the Spirit and choose favorite passages from the manual.&quot; Astute class members shoots up his hand first and points us to his &quot;favorite&quot; Brigham quote (paraphrasing): &quot;I&#039;ll never ask the Spirit to do something I&#039;m not willing to do myself.&quot; Awesome.

But the teacher barely even heard it, and just moved on to the next raised hand. Not awesome.

Orwell: :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>queuno: <i>&#8220;Just once, Iâ€™d like to see a priesthood or auxiliary leader stand up and ask a teacher who says this, â€œSo what gives you the right to assume weâ€™ll get anything out of this?â€&#8221;</i></p>
<p>True story: I&#8217;m in elders quorum, second year of Brigham Young lesson manual. Teacher stands up, admits to procrastinating all week, declares that we&#8217;ll just &#8220;follow the Spirit and choose favorite passages from the manual.&#8221; Astute class members shoots up his hand first and points us to his &#8220;favorite&#8221; Brigham quote (paraphrasing): &#8220;I&#8217;ll never ask the Spirit to do something I&#8217;m not willing to do myself.&#8221; Awesome.</p>
<p>But the teacher barely even heard it, and just moved on to the next raised hand. Not awesome.</p>
<p>Orwell: :)</p>
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		<title>By: Kaylana</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109005</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaylana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My hubby has used plenty of movie clips in EQ and HP group. &quot;Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade&quot; where Indiana has to use the book to get through the booby traps to get the Holy Grail water to save his father...meaning we need a book in our own lives to get through life aka the Book of Mormon. Also &quot;the Lord of the Rings&quot; about the ring and the burden it is to carry aka sin and how hard it is to get rid of, but we have the Savior...And when I was in the Spain MTC the mission home president&#039;s wife used a clip from &quot;The Karate Kid&quot; to illustrate a point about something that I don&#039;t recall right now...Everyone enjoyed my hubby&#039;s lessons, they paid attention and had heartfelt discussions after the clips. One just has to be weary of what they show etc...just be sensitive, but I don&#039;t feel there is anything wrong with that!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My hubby has used plenty of movie clips in EQ and HP group. &#8220;Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade&#8221; where Indiana has to use the book to get through the booby traps to get the Holy Grail water to save his father&#8230;meaning we need a book in our own lives to get through life aka the Book of Mormon. Also &#8220;the Lord of the Rings&#8221; about the ring and the burden it is to carry aka sin and how hard it is to get rid of, but we have the Savior&#8230;And when I was in the Spain MTC the mission home president&#8217;s wife used a clip from &#8220;The Karate Kid&#8221; to illustrate a point about something that I don&#8217;t recall right now&#8230;Everyone enjoyed my hubby&#8217;s lessons, they paid attention and had heartfelt discussions after the clips. One just has to be weary of what they show etc&#8230;just be sensitive, but I don&#8217;t feel there is anything wrong with that!</p>
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		<title>By: Orwell</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/07/05/a-declaration-of-independence%e2%80%a6-from-church-lesson-manuals.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109000</link>
		<dc:creator>Orwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1914#comment-109000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The basics will be repeated until everyone â€œgetsâ€ them. Thatâ€™s what the manuals are for. Until everyone is ready to go beyond the basics, the advanced stuff generally has to be learned on oneâ€™s own time outside of class. Thatâ€™s what personal study is for.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I didn&#039;t mean to imply we had to make lessons any more &quot;advanced.&quot;  I&#039;m fine with simple stuff.  It&#039;s all in the presentation.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the manuals, no matter how trite and deadly they appear at first glance, offer a great deal of leeway to a teacher who thinks about what points will be most useful to a class:&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with you at every turn, Ardis; this is all I&#039;ve ever tried to do.  I suppose it all comes down to what people mean by &quot;sticking to the manual.&quot;  In my view, all of your suggestions do exactly that (in the positive sense).  However, others would disagree.  Too many are taking these admonishments to keep to the approved material as excuses for getting increasingly pharisaical about how they teach or how they expect lessons to be presented - leading to many lessons that are taught exactly as they are mapped out, line by line.

BrianJ, even I wouldn&#039;t attempt such craziness.  Stick to the manual, you heretic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The basics will be repeated until everyone â€œgetsâ€ them. Thatâ€™s what the manuals are for. Until everyone is ready to go beyond the basics, the advanced stuff generally has to be learned on oneâ€™s own time outside of class. Thatâ€™s what personal study is for.</p></blockquote>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply we had to make lessons any more &#8220;advanced.&#8221;  I&#8217;m fine with simple stuff.  It&#8217;s all in the presentation.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think the manuals, no matter how trite and deadly they appear at first glance, offer a great deal of leeway to a teacher who thinks about what points will be most useful to a class:</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with you at every turn, Ardis; this is all I&#8217;ve ever tried to do.  I suppose it all comes down to what people mean by &#8220;sticking to the manual.&#8221;  In my view, all of your suggestions do exactly that (in the positive sense).  However, others would disagree.  Too many are taking these admonishments to keep to the approved material as excuses for getting increasingly pharisaical about how they teach or how they expect lessons to be presented &#8211; leading to many lessons that are taught exactly as they are mapped out, line by line.</p>
<p>BrianJ, even I wouldn&#8217;t attempt such craziness.  Stick to the manual, you heretic.</p>
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