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I am a huge fan of Eugene England since reading “Dialogues With Myself” as a young college student. I envy you that you had a class from him. I agree with his statement about his writing that “it has to be good.” If what you want is to promote faith (or send some other type of message), there are easier and more effective ways to do that other than being a writer. In several writing classes I had, the professor would disparage some particular piece of writing as being “inauthentic” or not “real” or believable. The student would often defend the writing by saying, “but that’s what actually happened!” The professors response was invariably, “So what?” Authenticity and believability in writing is not a function of sincerity or proximity to actual facts. It’s purely a function of skilled craft. You have to have the ability to convey whatever you are writing in a way that “rings” true, whether it is or not. |
Thanks for sharing this. I’m mostly a fan of Eugene England for founding Dialogue. I need to read more of the stuff that he wrote. |
My strongest memory of Eugene England is a bitter one. My wife and I happened to live in he and Charlotte’s Provo ward for the last two years of our time at BYU. At one point, he was asked to teach a Sunday School class on writing family history. We eagerly signed up to take the class. The bitter event occurred on the very first day of the class, actually. “Brother England” asked everyone in the small room to tell why they were taking the class. We were going around the room, and there was a good dialogue happening about the students’ personal reasons for wanting to take a Sunday School course on family history. And then it was my turn to explain why I was there, and I simply said, “Because *you’re* teaching it.” Technically, this answer was true — I wanted to come drink at the fountain, so to speak. But with my answer I also wanted to appear smart and glib and cool for knowing that Eugene England was a well-known dude, yadda yadda. And of course, the answer was also major kissing up to the teacher. His response? He said nothing. But just got this slightly pained and annoyed look on his face. I could feel his displeasure. He had no time for such sucking up. But more, he had no time for someone who was there only to worship a cult of personality; for someone who wasn’t as interested and passionate about the subject he was called to teach. I felt puny by his annoyed look. But I immediately learned an important lesson. And since that time, I’ve avoided the temptation to unduly build him up as superhuman. I don’t think he would like to be the sole focus of people’s attention. I truly felt that day that his passion was for the subject he was teaching, and not the teacher. Thanks for this chance to remember Eugene England. He was a quiet, unassuming but powerful man. I think this is the first time I’ve ever told anyone about my experience, and it’s been good for me to remember. (By the way, the class was wonderful. I learned things in it about family history and writing that I don’t think I’ll ever forget.) |
One particular chapter within _”Dialogues With Myself” by Eugene England is the discussion of a LDS Peace Theology. Being a combat Vietnam veteran this resonates to me personally. There is defintely a LDS peace theology even in a world of just war. See below http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/dialogues/chapter13.htm#peace |
Thanks for this – he is definitely one of my favorites and I am a big fan. I also admire him for founding Dialogue. |
I really enjoy his writing even thoguh at times it can be a little bit apostate |
Harold, Please explain you apostate comment |
Harold, you are wrong about that and you should apologize. |
Look there was a reason he was frowned upon at BYU. It is clear that the brethren saw him as a bit of a risk. As a TBM (I think that is the term) I enjoyed his writing but he did have a cloud hanging over him. That is the nature of my comment. |
And some of his essays seemed to question Church practice and authority |
Harold, I dislike the term “TBM,” but let’s leave that aside. You just called the work of Eugene England, a faithful member of the Church all his life and one of the most beloved and respected Mormon writers that I know of (and who is deceased and therefore not available to defend himself) “a bit apostate.” All I can say is that you have a very questionable definition of “apostate.” |
TBM is a term I have seen others use. I am just trying to fit into this online thing. Sorry if I offended you but that is the view I have. Otherwise why was he in trouble with BYU? |
I view apostate as someone whose views are not aligned completely with the prophet |
Thanks for the link to Easter Weekend essay. I don’t think I ever read that previously – which surprises me. I thought I had read most of what Eugene England had written. |
That explains a lot Harold, but then we’re all apostates, including you. |
My husband and I knew Gene well. There were no clouds around him. He had high ideals which met some very earthy realities, and sometimes the conflict saddened him. But he honored not only questions but questioners, and made the most orthodox (such as my husband)and the more heterodox (like me) feel equally and infinitely loved. He loved the Lord. That came through in everything he did. Though he was sometimes childlike in his idealism and sometimes unwise in what he said when news cameras were around him, he never abandoned any friend that I know of–though some of his friends did abandon him. He never abandoned the Church he loved, and never shrank from bearing his testimony. I miss him terribly. |
MCQ – perhaps but there are certainly gradations to apostasy |
Harold - The problem is that you’ve equated “frowned upon at BYU” to be equivalent to “on the road to apostasy”. Nothing could be further from the truth. BYU professors run into controversies all the time with BYU administrators and it has nothing to do with their temple recommend or personal worthiness. Furthermore, you’ve committed a gross miscalculation by deciding that “apostate” as “someone whose views are not aligned completely with the prophet”. Prophets as recent as President Hinckley have been known to have *PERSONAL* opinions with which members could disagree without any danger of being considered any less a member of the Church. You’ve impugned the character of a very, very good man. I never had the opportunity to meet him in person, but people I know and love worked with him directly on several projects and esteemed him in the highest regard. There may be gradations to apostasy, but you haven’t accurately described any yet, and you’ve picked the wrong target. |
Harold: I view apostate as someone whose views are not aligned completely with the prophet That includes most GAs. The notion that there’s no room for dissent is part of Satan’s plan. |
Folks, Try to educate yourselves a bit before you jump on poor old Harold. Prof. England got into trouble for talking about God progressing and the Adam-God doctine. I will save you the trouble of Googling it: http://mrm.org/bruce-mcconkies-rebuke-of-eugene-england The truth is, if you took the time to do any research on the church, you would discover that it has worked to cover up anything that shows the church in a negative light. Do you not know that the Book of Abraham has been proven false? Check it out! |
You’re an idiot Andrew. Why don’t you check out who you’re talking to before you make moronic comments? |
diane, Allow me to explain something to you. Nate Oman at T&S has described a group blog as a dinner party, where people hopefully have engaging and thought provoking conversation. But even if it isn’t engaging and though provoking, it is highly impolite to storm in and insult the hosts or abruptly change the conversation to your favorite hobby horse. Those who continue to do so will be asked to leave. Short of doing that at this moment, I suggest you get your own blog to air your thoughts. |
should have stated I responded to one component of the OP piece. We need to strive what we live in the messages we convey. You had to convey but nastiness |
“You don’t get to decide if what I have to contribute is worthy or not for conversation” Actually, he does. You don’t listen diane. What arJ said is accurate: This is not public property. It is a privately owned medium. You can show up, like a person shows up to a dinner party, and you may be welcomed or you may not be, as with a real dinner party at a privately owned residence. But to simply show up and insist that your hosts are somehow obligated to welcome you, no matter how you present yourself, and also welcome your contribution to the conversation, no matter how inane it may be (and by the way, yours is pretty inane), THAT is the definition of arrogance. And then you have the gall to tell one of the permas here that he is being arrogant for trying to clue you in. You’re all kinds of awesome. |
Yeah, I’m kinda wishing you’d get run over by a bus, Diane. |
@diane, That’s it. You’re in timeout. |
Time to get back to the topic: Eugene England. I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but through the wonders of the ‘net I found out about him. I read his article on Celestial Marriage and it spoke to my soul. I shared it with my VT sisters and I can directly attribute Dr. England’s article on Celestial Marriage to saving a troubled, 30 year marriage. |