Wow. I am surprised that since you were so close to them for those two years that you were in the same ward that you apparently had no idea where they lived. The nerve of them to not even tell you since you were obviously such close friends while you were in the ward for two years, but again, seem to have no idea where they live. I highly doubt that they would write a letter to you saying something like, “Hey, you know how we live in the same ward for the last two years and have kids the same age, and all that? What the crap? Why didn’t you tell us you were moving into our neighborhood? Of course, it is obvious that you imagine that we have an obligation to bring you brownies since you happen to move, especially since we are so close and all, but we don’t have any such obligation, especially since you didn’t even know where we live for the last two years. Thanks, that other Mormon family that you’ve been in the same ward as for the last two years but didn’t bother to get to know enough as a neighborly ward member to know where we lived.”

Who says the newcomers shouldn’t have to make the first move?

TT–really? Do you know where everyone in your ward lives? I certainly don’t, and never have. To be clear, we were in the same ward for 2 years when I lived in an apartment across town and I just recently moved into a house accross the street from a family I know by sight, not previously by name.

That probably speaks poorly of me too; in the OP, I think I was pretty clear that my neighbor’s actions are identical to my own inclinations. They stand in contrast to my non-member neighbor’s neighborliness.

Perhaps I should know every family in my ward. I hope a combination of shyness, having spent half a year of those two commuting to a separate branch that needed some leadership assistance, a stake calling that requires Sunday travel to other units, being a working mother who cannot participate in the bulk of RS sociality that occurs while I am at work, being a single mom, who cannot attend the few evening RS social events for lack of a babysitting spouse, and being preoccupied with my own crumbling marriage will sufficiently account for not hunting down all the families in the ward just to figure out where they live.

Peter–you are correct that that road goes both ways. Again, in her position (and clearly in mine), I would have done exactly what she has done, which is nothing. My post was simply to point out that I am learning from this situation.

Annegb–I certainly do not think that there is any prejudice whatsoever at play. I believe (although of course we cannot know anyone else’e situation) (I read her blog, which is on the ward hub) that the wife suffers from the exact same affliction that I do–just being too socially awkward to reach out. That sounds wrong, though, because I am sure she is not socially awkward (at least not to the extent I am), maybe neighborhood outreach is just not her thing. Cool. Like I said, I would be in her exact shoes, just now that I have experienced it from my side, I hope I won’t do it to anyone else in the future.

Maybe I should rename the post: HOW I AM LEARNING TO BE A BETTER NEIGHBOR.

:) Maybe….I’d still take her the cookies and tell her it’s to welcome you to the neighborhood.

jimbob–glad you didn’t notice, but we had previously gone 3 days without a new post up, so I actually thought this was a service to my fellow bloggers.

FWIW I actually have broken the ice with this neighbor now (the same day the RS president told me they lived across the street)–glad everyone is so concerned about that–you guys would make great neighbors.

In the interest of neighborliness.

ESO, I’m delighted that you live in a neighborhood now where people do introduce themselves, arrange playdates, watch out for the goings-on in the neighborhood, and offer personal help as well as the loan of tools. It sounds wonderful, and I hope it lasts beyond the welcome-to-the-neighborhood days.

I kinda like my neighborhood, too. Not only do I wake up to baskets of fresh produce on my porch, even after it’s turned cold, but several of the neighbors are so in love with my cat that they drop off pouches of expensive cat food that their picky cats wouldn’t eat — mine lives in gourmet heaven most days.

I like annegb’s suggestion in #10. And keep your chin up.

TT, she said she’d resolved the issue. Although, I think looking for other reasons for stand-off-nishnes, as you describe is a healthy way to handle relationships. There’s an old Ensign article on marriage that advocates cultivating a sort of insensitivity and shrugging things off that I thought was very wise. I’ll have to find it.

You know, ESO, my suggestion has an added value. Speaking for myself, if I did something like that and the woman laughed, saw the humor, I’d think we could be friends. But if she didn’t get the joke, or if she was offended, I’d figure I’d weeded out somebody I wouldn’t like anyway.

ESO,
I think that where we might have a different interpretation is that these neighbors serve for you the function of the bad guy in your morality play. Instead, I suggest that you see them as just regular old people, not in the sense of comparing yourself to them in order ot reveal your own wickedness, but to reveal your shared goodness in spite of your shortcomings.

queuno–of course it is true that I could look up where everyone in my ward lives, but it is not something I did while house-hunting. I am sure that I eventually would have seen said family and made the connection, but it was made for me by the RS president, who clearly knows the ward better than I do.

FWIW, I know where my visiting teachees live, where the people who brought me meals when I had a baby live (I returned their dishes), and a few random people who have moved into the ward after me and to whom I took a little something. Am I really such an anomaly? This is really a revelation to me that most people know where everyone in their ward lives.

Mormons are often friendly, but not frequently kind. It’s a shame that that non-Mormons can be so much kinder and so much more open and candid.

Great post. It reflects the Feelings that I sometimes have about the behavior of other Mormons even if I am sometime guilty of the same behavior myself.

FWIW, when we I lived in New York, I knew where essentially everybody in the ward lived. Now that I’m in Chicago, I don’t even know where streets are when people tell me where they live, and I have no idea where our ward boundaries are.

I’ve also never moved anywhere where people actively came and welcomed me to the neighborhood, so I think it’s pretty cool that your neighbors did that. Good for them.

Sam B–yeah, if my area had numbered streets, or people who lived in a fairly concentrated area, I would be much more likely to know where people lived. As it is, I can ask someone where they live and they will tell me the name of a town (the ward covers several) and unless they live on a major road in that town or over a landmark business, I am unlikely to know where they live, even if they give me the address. That is for the English speakers, who live within our borders; at least 1/3rd of the ward come for the Spanish or ASL services we host, and they come from several counties. So no, I don’t know where everyone lives.

My guess is that some specific characteristics of my neighborhood that perhaps make us more likely to interact: we are semi-urban so although we live in separated houses, we are all on relatively small lots and live within walking distance of schools, businesses, town hall, the library, parks, etc. So we walk, and indeed, most of our introductions took place when we were outside already. I know the suburban neighborhoods in which I grew up were much less connected–just that little bit more lawn or driveways a bit more spread out seemed to make all the difference in actually talking to neighbors. Anyway, I dig it.

M&M–You are very right.

Virtually every ward in the US now is on lds.org, where you can download updated-within-the-week membership lists. And with Google maps, it’s easy to see what streets are around us.

It just doesn’t seem like a stretch to me to look up where people live in the ward. It happens a lot that my wife will mention some family, and I don’t know where they live, and she’ll mention a street, and so then I’ll go look up the street in Google maps. If I want to know more, I’ll look up their address on lds.org.

The Church has spent a lot of tithing money to make it so that people in wards know where other people live. Is that money being wasted? I know they have plans to eventually actually *map* every address into a ward map, automatically, but in the meantime, it seems like such a low bar to cross. In our ward, we haven’t printed a formal directory in almost 2 years. We just refer people to lds.org. Until late last year, we had over 600 members, so it wasn’t like we were a tiny ward where it was easy to know where everyone lives.

@DKL and annegb

I respectfully disagree with your statement about friendliness vs. kindness. This sort of broad-brush is not the case everywhere. I’ve lived all over the U.S. and have experienced different regional personality norms and find that the Mormon community tends to reflect these norms. There are some that are more or less friendly, and surprise! this is how people are. I have experienced plenty of acts of kindness from my Mormon neighbors regardless of the place in which I live.

queuno–I am not saying that I cannot look up where a particular family in my ward lives. I am saying that I don’t do that without cause. I don’t just sit down and go through the directory from A to Z looking up addresses, and I don’t figure out where every new member lives just for kicks. If I have a reason to figure out where a particular family resides, I certainly do.