Comments on: Undeniable http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:50:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: MCQ http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114098 MCQ Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:13:07 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114098 I don't think the "church discipline" would be excommunication, unless there were something beyond simply doing an insemination. I don’t think the “church discipline” would be excommunication, unless there were something beyond simply doing an insemination.

]]> By: annegb http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114079 annegb Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:23:09 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114079 Joseph Smith: "That which is wrong in some situations can be, and often is, right in another." I shouldn't have put quotes, but that's pretty close. From Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Personally, I wouldn't judge a single woman who chose to have artificial insemination in order to bear a child and I don't think God would, either, if she could take care of and provide for a child. I've been there-done that in longing for a baby and I don't think those who have no idea of the feeling should presume to judge. It's always easy to pop off opinions based on scripture or deep religious conviction when one hasn't experienced the heartache associated with a situation. I don't think it's grounds for excommunication, either. Joseph Smith: “That which is wrong in some situations can be, and often is, right in another.” I shouldn’t have put quotes, but that’s pretty close. From Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Personally, I wouldn’t judge a single woman who chose to have artificial insemination in order to bear a child and I don’t think God would, either, if she could take care of and provide for a child. I’ve been there-done that in longing for a baby and I don’t think those who have no idea of the feeling should presume to judge. It’s always easy to pop off opinions based on scripture or deep religious conviction when one hasn’t experienced the heartache associated with a situation.

I don’t think it’s grounds for excommunication, either.

]]> By: MCQ http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114075 MCQ Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:29:32 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114075 I just disagree Rivkah. "Finding a sperm donor and making a baby that way is also treating this sacred power lightly." Why? A woman who has sex with her husband is somehow more serious about procreation than someone who goes through an expensive medical procedure? That makes no logical sense whatsoever. I just disagree Rivkah.

“Finding a sperm donor and making a baby that way is also treating this sacred power lightly.”

Why? A woman who has sex with her husband is somehow more serious about procreation than someone who goes through an expensive medical procedure? That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

]]> By: ESO http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114073 ESO Sun, 18 Oct 2009 02:38:40 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114073 jks--thanks for that addition. Just to be clear, I actually wasn't advocating AI for anyone, including single sisters. jks–thanks for that addition. Just to be clear, I actually wasn’t advocating AI for anyone, including single sisters.

]]> By: jks http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114072 jks Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:29:08 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114072 ESO, The idea that a single sister should not be considering AI makes complete sense to me if you consider that unlike current American culture, the gospel does not completely separate sex for intimacy and sex for procreation. Yes, married people can have sex for just intimacy and it has been given for that purpose within marriage. However, sex for procreation is considered a wonderful, sacred gift and responsibility for married couples only. To have sex outside of marriage is not treating your procreative powers in a sacred way. Finding a sperm donor and making a baby that way is also treating this sacred power lightly. I think that the church policy on abortion, premarital sex, birth control & family planning, infidelity, masturbation, fertility treatments, pornography all focus on the higher ideals that sex is for a married couple to bring them closer and express love and to have the sacred privelege and duty of creating and bringing children to earth and raising a family. ESO,
The idea that a single sister should not be considering AI makes complete sense to me if you consider that unlike current American culture, the gospel does not completely separate sex for intimacy and sex for procreation. Yes, married people can have sex for just intimacy and it has been given for that purpose within marriage. However, sex for procreation is considered a wonderful, sacred gift and responsibility for married couples only.
To have sex outside of marriage is not treating your procreative powers in a sacred way. Finding a sperm donor and making a baby that way is also treating this sacred power lightly.
I think that the church policy on abortion, premarital sex, birth control & family planning, infidelity, masturbation, fertility treatments, pornography all focus on the higher ideals that sex is for a married couple to bring them closer and express love and to have the sacred privelege and duty of creating and bringing children to earth and raising a family.

]]> By: Rivkah http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114069 Rivkah Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:11:38 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114069 As I said, we're also talking about *fundamental Church doctrine*--not just what is or isn't optimal. As I said, we’re also talking about *fundamental Church doctrine*–not just what is or isn’t optimal.

]]> By: MCQ http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114065 MCQ Sat, 17 Oct 2009 08:40:36 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114065 I understand all that, Rivkah. Obviously, it's not the optimal situation. But we're talking about church discipline here. There are a lot of things that happen that are not optimal that do not warrant church discipline. I understand all that, Rivkah. Obviously, it’s not the optimal situation. But we’re talking about church discipline here. There are a lot of things that happen that are not optimal that do not warrant church discipline.

]]> By: Rivkah http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114064 Rivkah Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:36:18 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114064 I should have said "The Church discourages singles from adopting infants in the U.S. who could otherwise be adopted by a married couple." I should have said “The Church discourages singles from adopting infants in the U.S. who could otherwise be adopted by a married couple.”

]]> By: Rivkah http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114063 Rivkah Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:34:53 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114063 MCQ, a single sister who adopts is providing a home that the child likely would not have otherwise. (At least, that's the case if she adopts an older or disabled child in the U.S., or a child from one of a number of countries overseas where domestic adoptions are rare.) The Church discourages singles from adopting for the reasons Ardis mentions in #16--at least her #1 and #3. Single women who get pregnant because their biological clocks are running down are acting contrary to fundamental Church doctrine and, quite frankly, are putting their own (very real) desires to parent above what is best for a child. And religious reasons aside, studies consistently show that the optimal situation for a child is to be raised by both his/her biological mother and father who are united in a stable marriage. (I'm speaking as a single woman "at the tail end of her childbearing years," by the way. So this is my own painful reality. But some things are more important than my desire to be a mom.) MCQ, a single sister who adopts is providing a home that the child likely would not have otherwise. (At least, that’s the case if she adopts an older or disabled child in the U.S., or a child from one of a number of countries overseas where domestic adoptions are rare.) The Church discourages singles from adopting for the reasons Ardis mentions in #16–at least her #1 and #3. Single women who get pregnant because their biological clocks are running down are acting contrary to fundamental Church doctrine and, quite frankly, are putting their own (very real) desires to parent above what is best for a child. And religious reasons aside, studies consistently show that the optimal situation for a child is to be raised by both his/her biological mother and father who are united in a stable marriage. (I’m speaking as a single woman “at the tail end of her childbearing years,” by the way. So this is my own painful reality. But some things are more important than my desire to be a mom.)

]]> By: MCQ http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/10/14/undeniable.htm/comment-page-1#comment-114060 MCQ Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:18:41 +0000 http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=2494#comment-114060 bbell, does the CHI misspell counsel? I wonder what the discipline would be. I'm not sure I understand why a single sister adopting would be ok but being inseminated would not be. What if she's at the tail end of her childbearing years and just wants the opportunity to have biological children? I think that should be different than a woman in her 20s deciding she wants to be inseminated. bbell, does the CHI misspell counsel?

I wonder what the discipline would be. I’m not sure I understand why a single sister adopting would be ok but being inseminated would not be. What if she’s at the tail end of her childbearing years and just wants the opportunity to have biological children? I think that should be different than a woman in her 20s deciding she wants to be inseminated.

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