I married a non-member during a time when my activity was low. I never intended to leave the church, but it was nowhere near a priority. Still, I spoke with my mother, my grandmother, and my best friend, all very active members who married outside the church. They all cautioned the choice, but I felt good about it, even confident. He’s now a member, so maybe the Lord was watching out for me, even when I was turning my back on Him.

I know sooo many couples who broke off courtship, engagements, etc. because one or the other couldn’t get a spiritual confirmation, then got back together and took the plunge anyways and are now deliriously happy together. I choose (B).

I’m not sure how much God wants to get involved in our personal relationships. Perhaps God can be reached for comment. But I don’t think He would want to give us the chance to say, “God, why did you ever tell me to marry this bum?” No, I think that of all the decisions you make in life, this one has got to be 100% yours.

I choose (A)

In a way, my experience has taught me the opposite of mephi…, danithew, and Bruce R. I think that I, and many other Mormons, rely too little on God for inspiration, including confirmation of whom we should marry, and we try to do too much on our own without inspiration.

However, I have had an experience similar to danithew’s of not receiving a confirmation, and I know that Heavenly Father does not always give a discernible confirmation. That’s why, if I feel good about something and want to take it to Heavenly Father, I ask Heavenly Father to tell me if it is wrong. In essence, I say, “Heavenly Father, I feel good about this. Please tell me if it is something I should not do.”

I really wish Heavenly Father would have given me a negative answer before I bought a house two years ago before the real estate bust.

Elder McConkie is spot on here. far too much emphasis in the church is placed on inspiration. yes I understand that revelation is one of the rocks that the church is built on. However we often bypass the work and the pre-requisites to revelation and settle for “feeling good” about something. This seems more spiritiual than logically weighing up a situation, hence we buy into it more.

I often see in the church were councillors of presidencies / auxillaries are to “go away and pray for some names”. This is so sad that it is almost laughable. The revelatory process is clearly pointed out in all the standard works yet often we settle for simply and randomly “feeling good” about something that this has become a danger to church memebrs when making decisions

A negative response (stupor of thought) can sometimes feel like you’re not getting any answer. So sometimes, if you don’t get an answer to a prayer asking for confirmation, you can reverse (or negate) the question, and see if you then get a positive response.

And answers don’t always come in the yes/no variety. The Lord can also guide our paths, which could lead us to finding someone. We shouldn’t expect the Lord to deliver someone to our front doorstep or our ward. You might have to go looking in nearby wards, stakes, or other cities or states.

I got the answer from God that I should marry my wife after I had made the decision. It was confirmation. Just like the D&C pattern found in the first few sections.

I am in the post-decision approval, not pre-decision dictation camp.

I seem to recall that when I first started dating my husband-to-be, I started thinking that he wasn’t that into me. As I remember it, I was saying my prayers and thinking, “I’d like to break up with J before he breaks up with me,” and the “answer,” if you can call that particular thought a “question,” was “stop worrying about that.” I had thought from our first date that I was going to marry him, and after I stopped worrying about breaking up with him and who was going to do the breaking up, I went back to thinking I was going to marry him, and I never actually bothered asking God if I should marry him or not. Maybe I should have, but it seemed like a silly question at the time.

I’m not sure which is the bigger challenge to church members generally, but in my own case I had to get over an unrealistic expectation of what God was going to offer me, inspiration-wise. It made praying a lot easier, just for starters.

Come on Nick–that’s lame.

bbell,

That is more than a bit of a cop-out. What is the point of giving someone a strong confirmation then? Wouldn’t God know if the person is not really the sort of person they are representing themselves to be?

Rebecca,

Why is Nick’s comment lame?

I’ve always thought it was unfair to make “stupor of thought” the default “no” answer. I mean, I spend most of my days in a “stupor of thought.” It’s hard to tell the difference.

It seems to me that if the decision isn’t obvious, you probably shouldn’t get married. Who wants their choice of spouse to be a close question?

I tend to agrree with the others here. Since God is not doing the marrying, I guess it is up to me…

“So what do we say of sit­u­a­tions in which a per­son does pray, gets a strong con­fir­ma­tion, acts accord­ingly and the marriage goes hor­ri­bly wrong? Would God prompt one to make a dras­tic mistake?”

In the long run, it might not be a mistake. A sister described that situation to me. She said that one reason she discovered was that if she had not married him (her ex), he would not have married a church member. (I forget if he was a church member or not.) And by her having married him, and having had children by him, she did his genealogy (essentially for her children’s sake) and had his ancestors’ temple work done. She said that if she had not married him, the temple work for those people would not have been done prior to the Millennium.

I forget if she speculated on other reasons, but it might (just speculating myself) also have been that his righteous ancestors deserved or “needed” somehow to have children raised in the church.

I’ve got a couple of my own stories about the Lord pretty much being responsible for setting me up on a couple dates. In regards to one, I thought I was completely unworthy of her, and was confused as to why that meeting was arranged, and I didn’t pursue a relationship. Well, I learned something years later, and it turns out we were much more matched than I thought. A while later, the Lord set me up with another blind date with someone else, and I pretty much thought the same thing, “Why is He doing this? This isn’t a good match.” Well, much later, I learn that we did have more in common.

In either of those cases, had I trusted the Lord and followed the path which He led me to, I might have been married by now.

But, I second-guessed the promptings, and concluded that I was interpreting things wrongly, and that those meetings weren’t actually set up on purpose. But now, having received more information, about my situations and theirs, it turns out I should have trusted the promptings and taken them at face value.

So, yes, there are general rules of thumb. But, there are also exceptions. And, infrequently, the Lord does come knocking and say “Do such-and-such”. It’s rare, but it can and does happen.

Bookslinger,

Unfortunately the long term effects of things are often very difficult to see in the present. I think that this discussion is related to one of my pet peeves about an attitude that I find often in Mormonism. Which is the thought that everything that happens to you is just great. If a good thing happens it is because you are being blessed. If a bad thing happens you are being blessed with a trial. :)

I am not saying that you have this attitude. I am saying that often this sort of logic is not helpful to those that are in the midst of difficulties. Sometimes things are just awful for no apparent reason and having it charaterized as a trial just turns God into some sort of awful terrorist.

Hi A Random John,
I understand the attitude you’re talking about and I don’t like it either. I believe in a God that’s pretty hands off. God doesn’t “Bless us with trials” He doesn’t have a [smite] button on his computer.

Boyd K. Packer* once said, “Do not suppose that God causes things that for his own reason he permits to come to pass.”

God has to allow EVERYONE their agency. If God only allowed people agency when they are going to choose good, then it’s not Agency is it?

*I don’t have the specific reference, but John Bytheway quoted him in “5 Scriptures That Will Get You Through Almost Anything”

I didn’t need much revelation on who I should marry, but I did need a bit of a revelatory kick in the pants to help convince me of the timing.

“If Steve Ben­son is to be believed (and I’m not say­ing he absolutely is or is not)…”

That’s a fair disclaimer, Nick. Steve Benson is also the guy that is convinced that when he left the church, the COB somehow bugged his phone. It’s these assertions he’s made and more that make me discount his overall exit story as highly hyperbolic, whatever nuggets of truths they may contain.

My relationship with the church was once a lot better than it was after my disasterous first marriage came to an end. See, I did what I was ‘taught’ today all my years growing up in the church, attending EFY, and a jillion other youth conferences: I prayed about my choice in a mate, got an overwhelming feeling of peace, and knew that by marrying my boyfriend, things would be OK and God answered my prayer. We married. It was 3 years of a decent marriage, 3 years on a rollercoaster, and 3 years of pure hell like I never could’ve imagined. He molested our daughter and we went through nearly a year of juvenile court hearings while I, too, almost lost my daughter too while CPS allowed her to be detained with me while I went through months and months of therapy, parenting classes, psych evals, etc becuase they felt I should’ve known he was doing these things to her. Thousands and thousands of dollars later, and countless hours of therapy/services later, I got 100% custody of her. I had huge reservations before marrying this disgusting man but that ‘still small voice’ spoke to me so I went into the marriage and peace and with the sure knowledge God blessed our sickening marriage.

That experience left me with the sure knowledge of one thing: Use my BRAIN, not the whisperings of the still small voice to make such decisions. When I hear stories like this taught in church, it’s all I can do not to puke and stand up and scream NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! It left me questioning whether or not I could ever hear God speak to me. Don’t misunderstand me– I believe in God and Jesus and I know God loves me and I have a very personal relationship with Him. But I don’t think he micromanages my life and leaves pretty much the decisions I make up to me and is there to comfort me in the tough times.

I prayed about a guy once. He was an RM, the only LDS guy I’d ever seriously dated, and he brought up marriage first. The relationship bombed shortly after I prayed for confirmation of it because he cheated on me. Fun, fun. I kept going back to him because I felt like I should continue to follow that original confirmation. Bad idea. I’ve come to the conclusion that confirmations, like all revelation, are highly conditional. I also don’t think they’re necessary, though I do think it’s a good idea to at least ask with the understanding that an answer may just be figure it out for yourself.

On the positive side, I decided to just marry my now husband in spite of his atheism, having decided/realized there are more important compatibilities to consider, and I’ve been very happy with the relationship. So, things didn’t work out with the guy I prayed about, but that failed relationship opened me to a relationship I’ve been very happy in.

“Use my BRAIN, not the whis­per­ings of the still small voice to make such deci­sions.”

The situation you were forced to go through because of an evil man is extremely heart wrenching. I really do feel a deep sense of sadness for you and your daughter.

With that in mind I don’t want to seem like I am debating you, but I do just want to offer one remark and I hope I can say it properly across the net without being too obtuse.

Your comment displays a lot of negativity and perhaps a little bit of blame toward others and perhaps God, and especially yourself. A big point in my previous post, is there are often times when we have no idea who or what a person may turn out to be, and the spirit will usually not tell us “this person may turn out to be very very bad”, I think that is especially true because most(all?) of us can turn out to be very very bad if we let ourselves be drawn down a certain path.

So please don’t blame yourself, God, or counselors, etc. who only had the best in mind in telling you to prayerfully consider a spouse. Clearly you should also use your brain. If the person you want to marry is has shown certain traits that are highly questionable at best you should do your best to question them from as many angles as possible.

In short, I don’t think anyone is suggesting you NOT use your brain, and I have not seen evidence from what you said that you did not use your brain in your case either. Using your brain and asking for (and accepting) guidance from the spirit does not mean our future will be rosy.

I prayed about my second husband and God said no every time, even when we knelt across the altar at the temple. We lasted 10 months and very nearly killed each other. I know he thought about killing me because once in a fight he said, “the only way out of this is one of us has to die.” I thought, “you’re right, stand still while I get my shotgun.”

It was so clear, that warning. But I was desperately lonely and wilful.

When I married Bill, I didn’t have that feeling. I never asked because I didn’t feel that warning at all and I figured it was from God. Even now, when I hate his guts and feel completely miserable, I’m pretty sure God wanted me to marry him. For the life of me sometimes, I don’t know why. But still.

I think marriage is an important enough decision to involve the Lord. The Lord, not the church. What you’re going to have for dinner, not so much.

I’m also with the study it out and use your brain, then ask crowd.

I was always amazed at some of the dating behaviors people I knew at BYU. Some wanted to be handed a mate on a platter stamped “approved by God”, but didn’t date wisely. Some married people who obviously joined the church just to get the final “okay” on marriage. Others refused to date outside the RM pool, regardless of common interests. Some insisted on not kissing at all in addition to the law of chastity. Some completely ignored the practicalities of blending two lives and the future support mechanisms of the family (ie. no way to support themselves or each other or children.) Some became engaged after a few weeks without getting to know their potential spouse, and were married within three to six months of meeting. Quite a few of the resulting marriages did not survive, and some have survived but just that.

I received plenty of raised eyebrows when I became engaged to a man back home (over 3000 miles away). Of concern to others were the large age difference; my intended’s “previously married” status and teenage child; his recent conversion; that I was waiting 18 months to finish school before marrying; and, oddly enough, I had considered his work ethic, employment and debt status as factors in my choice. At the end of the eighteen months engagement and 2+ years knowing him, my now DH had proven himself faithful in regularly attending church while I was at school, maintained his household, and had to the best of my knowledge, remained faithful to me.

Before our marriage I did seek and receive confirmation of my choice. I was well aware of the potential obstacles and as prepared for them as possible. Some things you can’t prepare for- especially others exercising their agency to the detriment of others. My parent’s always taught that marriage is one of the most important choices and the one that affects not only you, but all your children.

I tell ya, if I’d dated Bill for a year, I don’t think I’d have married him. The feelings are mutual, I’m sure. But, you know, I don’t think I’d marry anybody if I’d had to know them really well.

I think you’re totally right about that Annegb. Maybe that’s why we are counseled to keep our engagements short?

I think nearly any 2 people can have a long and happy marriage.
Too many people out there believe in Saturday’s Warrior. “We promised each-other in the pre-existence that we would find each other.” What a load of tripe.

I believe that for anybody on this earth there are several people that the were meant NOT to be with and that’s why we seek spiritual confirmation, to make sure we haven’t picked one of those.

Leaving room for the exception of some colossally bad choices by the other party, I believe that there are two rules for a happy marriage.
1.) Choose to be happy.
2.) When in doubt, see rule 1.