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I love you Jeff, but you’re long winded. :) I’ll comment after I’ve plowed through the whole post. |
Environmentalists on the whole grasp the incredible complexity of finding feasible ways of moving human society in a green, sustainable direction. I applaud your efforts to explain the complexity of the problem. But since we’re all working for common goals, I don’t see why you need to polarize by opening with a gratuitous jab at your strawman evil granola. |
Is it complicated? Sure. But there are some very simple things you can do. |
“you’ll avoid the pride-cycle menÂtalÂity of ownÂing a big car, and you’ll pay less for the car and for gas for that car” So we can be prideful about our small, fuel efficient cars? (while condemning those prideful, wasteful large car drivers and feeling good about ourselves for it) Your points are all good Tim, I don’t think they need the moral judgment of big car owners (said by one who owns a bus pas) |
EnviÂronÂmenÂtalÂists on the whole grasp the incredÂiÂble comÂplexÂity of findÂing feaÂsiÂble ways of movÂing human sociÂety in a green, susÂtainÂable direcÂtion. I’m not sure how you define “environmentalists”, but in my experience (56 yrs old, been tracking ‘environmentalism’ since the mid-60s, professional specialization in complex systems analysis and design), most self-proclaimed environmentalist — especially the most vocal proponents and the lawmakers who seek to enact their proposals — seem to have little grasp of the actual consequences (economic, environmental, etc.) of most of their proposals. Which is why we get a steady stream of self-defeating idiocies such as “Cash for Clunkers”, mandates to phase out incandescent bulbs, recycling programs that are neither cost effective nor that great for the environment, and the city of Seattle refusing to put salt on its snow-covered roads last winter. Or, for that matter, “hybrid” cars that, in spite of being tax-subsidized, don’t really save their owners money and that simply pollute at a distance. Jeff isn’t nit-picking at strawmen — he’s addressing some of the fundamental flaws in “feel-good” environmentalism. ..bruce.. |
Though your tone makes me squirm, I concur that being considerate of the environment is a messy business and that much of today’s popular wisdom can be problematic. |
At its worst environmentalism can be just another kind of consumerism. One aspect of this is the inordinate attention given to cars. Cars are a major environmental factor, but the way we focus on them, you might think they produce 70% of our pollution and suck up a similar portion of our energy. They don’t. |
I am a master of Marie Curie high school, I’d like your blog. |
I don’t own a car, so I can look down my nose at the yahoos who think that owning a Prius somehow makes them special. John Mansfield is right–cars don’t use 70% of total energy and they don’t produce 70% of pollution. But 70% of the petroleum consumed in the US is used for transportation, and there’s no other energy source that is as useful as petroleum distillates–nothing else is as portable, as convenient to store and transport, and as lightweight per unit of energy. What a pity that so much petroleum is being wasted simply moving our collective national fat backside around (along with the ton of metal and plastic and rubber that we use to move ourselves in). |
As I whole I don’t agree with chanson #2 that environmentalists “as a whole” grasp many of these tradeoffs. I guess it depends on the circles we travel in. A lot of my perspective was colored by the nonsense I hear regularly from journalists, but I also recall a visit to Marin County a year and a half ago. I loved the history and the beautiful scenery, but I have never been subjected to so many scolds, bluenoses, and busybodies as I have during my short time there. And I grew up in Salt Lake City, which is reputed to be an intolerant bastion of teetotalers and sexual prudes. I was freely lectured, without any prompting from me, by complete strangers on the evils of yes, smoking and drinking, but also fishermen, lumberjacks, businessmen, and politicians. None of this with any provocation or questioning from me; just out of the blue people felt free to lecture me on the obvious (to them) moral superiority of their way of life. There are of course exceptions, Stewart Brand’s thinking (you can watch it here http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/stewart_brand_proclaims_4_environmental_heresies.html) on what environmental priorities should be are, in those 4 cases, completely at odds with most environmentalists’ policy prescriptions, even though he shares (as I do) many of the same goals as them. If you want to try an experiment and see if environmentalists “on the whole” grasp the tradeoffs, get a bunch of your environmentalist friends together and then take the position (if only for the purposes of the experiment) that even though you think global warming is a problem, that there might be other priorities just as important, or even more important, than reducing carbon emissions. You will be lambasted. And then, try conceding the point, that reducing carbon IS the most important priority, and that you agree that The Day After Tomorrow is rock-solid scientific prophecy. Then suggest that the best way to combat this problem is to embark on a crash course of nuclear reactor construction, because, even though it is more expensive than coal or natural gas, it is still an order of magnitude cheaper than wind or solar, and doesn’t require any new technological breakthroughs to work, it already works. If your friends are like mine, they will splutter that nuclear isn’t safe enough and produces too much waste. You can spring your trap if you then point out that this waste does not emit carbon, and that therefore even they believe there are higher priorities than reducing CO2 emissions. Chernobyl, even as it was melting down, probably released less carbon that year than an average coal-fired power plant. If reducing CO2 emissions really does trump all other concerns in order to save the planet, such things should be a price worth paying. If your experience is like mine, you will find out that these people are not good at examining tradeoffs. You will get a hostile reaction and disbelief, and rather than engage your points, they will assume you are an evil tool or an ignorant dupe. This to me says mainstream environmentalism has more in common with a religious movement (complete with a heaven and hell, sinners and saints, a soteriology (method of salvation), an eschatology (the world is ending!), an anointed authorized priesthood, excommunications, and you can even buy indulgences) than it is a political/policy question. If it were the latter, we could have a civil and dispassionate discussion about it. |
Another trade-off you can try on people to see if they care is the one between saving energy and reducing pollution emissions. A prime concern in the design of equipment removing pollutants from the exhaust stream is: What’s the pressure drop? Pressure drops across the pollution control equipment in a power plant either reduce the flow rate and power available to drive the electric generators, or have to be compensated by increasing the power of the electricity-consuming forced draft fans. To produce the same amount of electricity, more coal has to be burnt compared to a plant with no pollution control equipment. The added fuel consumption is a price we pay because we don’t want to just dump the raw exhaust stream into the atmosphere. Or take the general principle that the hotter an engine runs, the more efficient it is and the less fuel it takes to do a given amount of work. Yet, at the same time, hotter temperature also increases formation of NOX (essentially burning the air itself). So its a tradeoff: hotter engine, less fuel consumed, and more NOX; or cooler engine, more fuel consumed, and less NOX. |
Jeff, it appears that the environmentalists in your circle are the stupid ones ;) Many environmentalists are aware of the complexities that you bring up. For instance, I once saw this on a bumper sticker (in Idaho of all places): “Another environmentalist for nuclear power.” To put a twist on your environment/religion analogy, the OP is similar to some anti-Mormon posts that I have read. It picks on weak and problematic aspects without acknowledging the strengths and benefits of the movement. Yes, there are some stupid “true believing” environmentalists out there. Congratulations for beating them up. |
“(in Idaho of all places)” Perhaps in the vicinity of Idaho Falls and the U.S. Department of Energy’s Idaho National Laboratory, the place where submarine nuclear plants were developed, and thousands of sailors have trained to operate them? |
I only read “Save the Earth” bumper stickers if they’re on bicycles. |
uftda!!!! |
I only listen to “save the earth” preaching from homeless bums. |
Thanks for the article, this will prove like useful information for my class! Thanks |
Sam, |
#12, you miss my meaning if you think I am saying “stupid” environmentalists (I wouldn’t put it quite that way perhaps ‘dogmatic’ or ‘reactionary’) therefore denotes the entire environmental movement is worthless and wrong. I do fear, however, that if these voices remain what (appear to me from my point of view) the dominant voices, they will discredit not only themselves, but by association even the more sensible portions as well. I would view such an outcome as unfortunate. I see how people like Stewart Brand are being treated and it does not bode well. I am highly disturbed at how many environmentalists freely permit people who are clearly hostile to the entire idea of humanity make common cause with them. The movement clearly knows how to do excommunications, so why don’t they excommunicate people who refer to the human race as a “virus”, or cheer when bears and other predators eat humans? I know many, probably most, environmentalists disagree with that (see the late George Carlin, a man with whom I almost always disagree, but who was absolutely right when he mocked people who in their grandiosity want to ‘save the planet’ or prevent extinctions. See here, but be advised that he, as usual, uses R-rated language. The planet will be fine, he says. What we should be worried about is ourselves.) Look at the splashy coverage given this book, which I consider a species-wide snuff film, a human extinction BDSM fantasy. |
Oh hooray! The old, “global warming predictions are bunk but even if they are real then it will be a net benefit! And CO2 is great for plants!” routine. You should stick with your strong, reasonable points (which you made several of) rather than venture off into this sort of silliness. |
What I think is that it’s bunk for Al Gore to excuse the fact that he lives in a huge mansion and has all those cars and it’s okay becaus she has more money to buy carbon credits and I live in a little house and drive a car that gets really good mileage and I’m in troube if I leave the lights on. That’s bunk. Blatant hypocrisy on the part of the celebrities who are preaching to the little people. |
how did al gore come into this? he’s not the problem nor the solution. |
I guess I’m not too intelligent, Melanie. Al Gore is the face of the global warming movement. I’m not arguing I shouldn’t conserve—and I do. But no one has ever said a word about all the celebrities who celebrate this movement from their mansions. If they, and all the other rich people, went green and lived in homes that were what they needed instead of a monument to their greatness, how much would that compare to the common man conserving? And hello, Las Vegas! |
arj #20, I’m actually surprised that more people haven’t disputed some of my points, because a few of them, at least, are controversial. Even if you decide some of my particular examples aren’t too persuasive, I think my larger point is a good one. How should we decide how to balance these claims? And even more crucially, who will decide? There is a finite amount of money, and we too often neglect these tradeoffs. Incidentally, however, I am not arguing here that global warming will be a net benefit. I have no idea if that is the case, but if I had to guess I suppose it would depend on whether the net increase over a century is 0.5 degrees C versus 3.0 degrees C, and whether that increase was primarily an increase in lows or an increase in highs. I was not trying to claim, as I have heard some claim, that increased CO2 will lead to increased plant growth which will lead to increased uptake of CO2, and balance our human contribution to CO2 emissions, so if you thought I was claiming that, you misread me. But it is well-known that plants evolved under much higher CO2 concentrations than we have currently, and that this (relative) lack causes plants to expend a lot more water through transpiration than they would have to otherwise, and the C4 photosynthesis pathway evolved specifically to obviate (but not eliminate) some of that loss. See here. CO2 is good for plants, there is little dispute over that. The burning question is, is it good for the rest of us? I am not trying to make a point that this increased CO2 is good for us humans, or even the rest of the planet. I will admit to the belief that global warming is not the greatest threat to the human race at present, however, though this should not affect my argument here. One of my biology professors jokes that aerobic bacteria (primarily algae) were the original polluters on the planet. Before they came along 2.7 billion years ago, all the action was with anaerobic metabolism; aerobic (oxygen-based) metabolism was an obscure backwater. But then plants came on the scene and polluted the atmosphere with massive amounts of oxygen, which chemically speaking is a much more reactive gas than the relatively inert CO2, not to mention what it did to combustibility of all that plant matter. Think of the wildfires! They paid a heavy price for their “pollution.” Science nerds like me who want to read a larger discussion can start here. |
1. Eat less meat and more vegetables. … Extra bonus: you’ll actually be following the word of wisdom! … Remember, there is the “WOW” that’s a good suggestion, and the version of the “WOW” that’s a commandment. At any rate, we ignore historical context. People in Joseph’s time ate so much more meat than we fathom today. If the WOW were released again today, I doubt there’d be any reference to meat. Sure, it’s healthier to eat less meat. But don’t look at your “I have meat in my dinner every night” diet and think you’re violating the WOW. |
Can anyone help me with an answer to a question? |
no |
go away and never come back and take your friends with you. |