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Yeah, I have mixed thoughts about the movie too. Visually spectacular but literally boring. Who knows, we’ll probably get more backstory in Avatars: Judgment Day. :) |
We saw two movies last week — Sherlock Holmes (Anniversary) and The Princess and the Frog (NYE, and we took the kids for that one). Both were incredible. No interest in watching in “Dances with Aliens”. The “it’s so masterful, technically” argument died with the first three episodes of Star Wars. Yes, the technology was great, but the story sucked and the dialogue sucked and the acting sucked. Sorry, I don’t get sucked into movies anymore by tech alone. And anyone who looks at movie grosses without adjusting for cost increases is an idiot. Sorry. If you have kids (or even if you don’t), go see Princess/Frog. Oh, and at SH, we saw the preview for Iron Man 2. It looks incredibly goofy. |
(OK, I shouldn’t be so harsh on people who don’t normalize movie grosses. But it’s just an intellectually dishonest comparison. Avatar in 3D is going for $18.50 a ticket in NYC. Not a fair comparison.) |
The Goonies? I thought the bad guys were robbers fleeing the police. |
I’m with queuno–George Lucas is my big impediment to seeing Avatar. (Sure, Cameron isn’t Lucas, but Cameron has a lot of suckitude in his past.) My 4yo loved Princess and the Frog, and I enjoyed what I saw between chasing my 1yo around the theater (fortunately a 1:00 showing on a Tuesday, so there were only two other families, and I think I managed not to irritate them too much). |
I consider myself to be conservative, but the movie didn’t bother me at all. The plot, acting, and story were all amazing. My only complaint (and I have this with all sci-fi movies) is the native life is too Earth-like. All the critters looked and acted like earth animals with an extra set of legs. On another note, I thought the Na’vi and the Pandoran life were a lot like the Pequeninos and the life on Lusitania, from Orson Scott Card’s Speaker for the Dead. However they had a different means of connecting. |
Don’t forget FernGully: The Last Rainforest (bulldozers and all). That parallel alone kept me from being able to take the plot seriously. |
I was gonna reference Fern Gully but Orwell beat me to it. My kids have that memorized. I recommend that you see Avatar in 3D or better yet, on an Imax screen. Sure, its all about The Noble Savages meeting and beating (humanely!) The Demon Corporation. The spectacular visuals salvage the minor offenses of the story. We laughed at the transparent political correctness in the plot. Fun was had by all. |
I was thrilled to see religion portrayed in such a positive light. Granted it’s not exactly our kind of religion, but it’s religion nonetheless. To compare Avatar to Star Wars is like comparing Niagra Falls to a garden hose. Don’t let Star Wars keep you from seeing this movie. ;) |
There’s a fascinating exploration of the theology of this film in the discussion over at the Religion News Service Blog – which makes really interesting reading next to this post. |
Avatar is indeed a reprisal of Dances with Wolves — but what’s wrong with that? Both DWW and Avatar have a message that rings all too true: mankind’s stubborn cruelty and lack of understanding can exceed every expectation. I never would have thought that this movie could cause religious offense — it’s sci-fi, after all. I also saw several elements from Card’s Speaker for the Dead. It was an excellent action sci-fi movie, very well made and very entertaining. In addition, it had some deeper themes that are worth contemplating even if they were cheapened by the unsubtle evokation of the Bush doctrine. It was particularly stupid when the Big Bad Marine Commander referred to the Na’vi as terrorists. Although I didn’t mind that the movie was a reprisal of Dances with Wolves, I did wonder to myself how these people could be doing the exact same thing to the Na’vi that nineteenth-century Americans did to Native Americans. I would have thought that even in sci-fi that occurs in the close future there would be an awareness of history. In fact, I think it’s reasonable to expect that at least some of the characters in the movie would have seen Dances with Wolves as a golden oldie at some point in their lives. Perhaps only the scientists had seen it (being more intellectual) and the business executives and ex-Army grunts comprising the rest of the staff of the outpost limited their entertainment choices to pornography or slash-gore flicks. Not a single character aside from the scientists and their friend chopper pilot showed the slightest shred of awareness that they were repeating and re-perpetrating the same abuses and crimes that nineteenth-century Americans committed against the Native Americans, so that was frustrating and bothered me throughout the entire movie. But it didn’t bother me enough to say that it wasn’t a good movie. It was a great movie — everyone should see it, if for no other reason than for a reminder of the very corrupting effects that corporate profit-motive can have on people, deadening conscience in favor of shareholder return. |
All of these criticisms are valid, but I still loved the movie. Queuno, it’s true that I’m not adjusting for any kind of inflation; I haven’t seen that done in the rankings of these movies, so I admit it’s not an accurate comparison. I wish I could adjust for emotional maturity of ticket purchasers as well… john f. (11), I wish I had thought of the parallels to Speaker For The Dead; it has been 20+ years since I read that book. |
I like your approach to traffic, but I still probably won’t see Avatar. If I had more money and time, I probably would (along with a lot more other movies), but at this point in my life, I only see about 2 movies a year in the theatre, and I suspect this will not be one. I’ll jut have to wait for the next movie that will “change the way [I] watch movies.” |
Dan, Your analysis of the movie are spot on. The “Fight terror with terror” line made me groan, but it wasn’t enough for me to change my mind about the spectacular experience that was the movie. |
For an unbelievably good review of what went wrong with Star Wars, with some bad language. To summarize- you can’t blame the visual effects alone, though they are a huge part of what went wrong. Characters were wonky, the story was wonky, there was no main character, etc. The whole structure was bad. Cameron has made some of my favorite movies of all time: True Lies, Terminator 1 & 2, The Abyss, Aliens, and Rambo II. Most of them have some green/anti-capitalist/anti-military/anti-resource exploitation message. But most of the time you can swallow the pill because Cameron develops characters amazingly well. You can’t say anything like that for the latest Star Wars features. I’ll probably see Avatar on DVD or on the fabulous Blue-Ray. |
_Avatar_ is not the type of movie I’d normally see. I don’t usually like a whole lot of CGI, and too much action makes me tired. Nonetheless, as part of our family Christmas celebration, we did see it–and I stayed awake and enjoyed it. Interestingly, the only person in my family who did not like it was my eighteen-year-old son. My brother said that _Avatar_ was basically a remake of _The Mission_. He has a point. Still, the fact that a fifty-four-year-old woman (me) enjoyed being PART of what felt like a very good video game (and she has never played any video games at all–ever) does say something. |
Here’s why you should not see Avatar 1. James Cameron and everyone involved in Avatar should be forced to watch every Pixar movie made, over and over again, until they understand that CG effects are just tools to tell a story and do not constitute a story by themselves. 2. 3D still sucks. It will give you a slightly woozy headache, it performs poorly in fast action sequences and it adds nothing to the story and very little to the visuals. 3. Avatar is just Dances With Wolves, The Motion Capture Edition. Go watch Dances With Wolves, you won’t have to wear glasses to see it, the creatures look like real people instead of characters from a cheap video game and you’ll save some money. |
The comparison to DWW only goes so far. In DWW, Dunbar and the Indians failed and had to flee their lands. Avatar’s story just troubles me greatly. I really really want to like it, but so many of the plot holes bother me. Why is “unobtanium” so important? There is no indication as to its importance (besides that it sells for $20 million a kilo or whatever—but even that doesn’t cause a sense of urgency; who knows $20 million in 2154 might be only $50,000 in today’s dollars), and why a corporation would risk so much death over this rock. This corporation must own many Senators and governments if it can act with such impunity. Where are the governments of earth on Pandora? How come a corporation with ex-military mercenaries has communication with alien species but no government does? Most of the workers of this corporation speak English, thus implying the corporation is American based. What about other countries? Are only American corporations in space? As for the unobtanium and its unknown use, did this corporation really try searching anywhere else besides this one area of the moon Pandora? Was the very last known quantity of unobtanium under the Home Tree? There truly was no more elsewhere? Not on any other planet? Couldn’t it be synthesized? And the Na’vi. Ex-Colonel Lang says the Na’vi are hard to kill. And that he cannot protect the lives of the men entrusted to him. Yet this mercenary group comes in with some hardcore tech and they fight against bows and arrows and spears. Huh? I can understand that the Na’vi might be harder to kill if they were able to use the environment and nature around them to thrash any unwelcome visitors, but the Na’vi never do this. Not until the fake Na’vi Jake Sully prays to the god of Pandora for assistance and the animals turn against the humans do we see this. Before that, the Na’vi were slaughtered quite easily. Heck, their home tree was utterly destroyed with ease. And they are far too trusting of Jake and Sigourney Weaver’s character (forget her name right now), when both failed terribly badly at solving the dispute diplomatically. If I were a Na’vi, I’d be utterly pissed at Jake and would kill him on sight. I certainly wouldn’t make him my leader, nor would I try to save the life of SW’s character just after humans destroyed my Home Tree. James Cameron fares better as a story teller when the tale is simpler. Aliens is very simple and fantastically powerful. The Terminator has a complex story that doesn’t work well when you really get into the logic, but the telling of it doesn’t focus too much on the complex time travel issues, but rather just on the simple part: a terminator is sent to kill Sarah. I guess my disappointment with Avatar is that he’s supposedly spent a long time thinking about this story, and now that it is out, it’s so full of holes. |
KLC (17),
Should we also suggest that Cameron go back and watch every black and white — or silent — film ever made? And regarding the state of 3D, have you seen Avatar? My experience bore no resemblance to what you said about 3D viewing. Daniel (18), Yes, the comparison to DWW is imprecise; I think the plot is more like a combination of several movies. Personally, I was disappointed in some of the ideological statements in the movie, but I’m glad I was able to put those things on the shelf and take in the experience. |
My oldest son (who loves video games) was disturbed that there could be explosions in a place without oxygen. I had to explain the rules of suspending disbelief to him: In THAT world, that’s how it works. If you can invent characters we believe in and even like, we’ll usually accept some plot-holes or absurdities. SOME. |
Dan, of course I saw it, that’s why I said what I did. I’d been hearing over and over about how groundbreaking Avatar was, over and over about how its 3D is viable and not just a gimmick. So I went, big fail on both counts. It’s a pedestrian story wrapped up in half a billion dollars of CG. And I found the 3D headache inducing and irritating. Avatar is not some big breakthrough in cinema on par with talkies and color, which is why your quip about talkies and color has no traction. I mentioned Pixar precisely because they get it. Movies are about storytelling and all of the CG in the world won’t change that. A great story and compelling characters are enhanced by CG not created by it. |
Dan E., #19,
That’s good to hear. I wholeheartedly disagree with the ideology behind Red Dawn, but the film rocks. :) |
This aspect didn’t offend me, but I found the preachiness really irritating. In addition to “fight terror with terror,” there were forehead-slapping uses of “preemptive strike” and “shock and awe.” I don’t care what your political leanings are, “groan-out-loud stupid element of the movie” is certainly an apt description. The visuals were cool, and I really enjoyed the setup (though I was underwhelmed by the 3D — too much hype, I guess). But once the novelty wore off I just kept thinking how ridiculous most of the main characters were (especially the scientists, the military guys, and the on-site manager). The black-and-white caricatures that Cameron tries to pass off as people really ruined it for me. As things wore on I felt like I was watching some Romantic-era Indianist novel. Rousseau’s “noble savage” lives on in all of its idealized, condescending glory. And then when the bulldozers came and nature stepped in as the deus ex machina (Ã la FernGully), I lost it. Hilarious. This film is certainly a technical achievement, and I am glad I saw it… but I don’t think I could sit through it again. To each his own, though. I won’t begrudge anyone their enjoyment of the film. |
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one having flashbacks to Fern Gully during this film. The bulldozer scene was almost too much for me! And the tree being so gigantic made the creatures and humans look like little fairies. We enjoyed the film for what it was but much of it felt ripped off from other films… |
Note that the dismissive meme “some people hate Avatar only because they’re conservative”, while true on its face, ignores the amazing unoriginality and predictability of the plot and the profoundly embarrassing stereotype of the Na’vi as modern Hollywood Native Americans (bows and arrows? horses? war whoops? noble savages in touch with nature? the white guy marrying the chief’s daughter? seriously?), not to mention the strictly one-dimensional characters. On the other hand, the film has already broken $1 billion worldwide, so I’m mostly spitting into the wind. I’ll note for the record that of my three top films for 2009, two had decidedly liberal/anti-corporate themes (“District 9″ and “Moon”). The third (“Sherlock Holmes”) was just a great romp. ..bruce.. |
David Brooks has some interesting thoughts on Avatar: |
Yeah, there is little in that Brooks article that I wouldn’t agree with. If I expanded the third paragraph from my last comment to that many words it probably wouldn’t come out too different — except that I have a hard time taking the movie quite as seriously. |
So I just went to see Avatar. I give it a solid B. CGI- A+ I could believe that the characters were interacting with the world and wasn’t distracted by their CGI at all. I was impressed by the places I was taken. I felt immersed in Pandora. But that is not enough for me to enjoy a movie. I get the same experience watching the National Geographic channel. Story- C Characters- D+ The Navi were disappointing. Not alien enough for me. Their behavior was pretty much that which you would expect on Earth from aboriginal people. There wasn’t much “alien” about them. I groaned audibly when they were stirred up to war by a rousing speech and all raised their hands and shouted. I guess that’s a universal “let’s go kill” thing to do- give a speech, yell loudly. All in all, it was a believable physical environment, with unbelievable characters and story. |
Do you really think people go to movies and think about all the deep political and philisophical nuances? For the most part? I think it’s about entertainment. Well not Avatar specifically, but in general. |
I’ll wait until it’s been on DVD for a while, and buy a used copy on Ebay. |
There are lots of very popular movies these days that show completely unbelievable and unrealistic degrees of violence and/or that show us a world that does not exist with beings in it that do not exist and actions that are totally impossible. I do not like such movies at all. Mainly because they have no relationship with the real world in which I and all human beings live. Sometimes I think I understand why so many people like this type of movies: they are often filled with extremely spectacular scenes and actions which, though completely unrealistic, still succeed in thrilling our emotions and our imagination. I also understand that these movies can be a form of escape for people who experience the real world and their real lives as boring and eventless. I saw the three dimensional version of Avatar a few days ago in the Philippines, in a cinema in Manila, where the tickets are a lot cheaper. I consider myself a true Christian and, like I said, in general I dislike movies that have no relationship with our real world. But I must admit: I was spellbound from the beginning to the end. I really enjoyed the film and found it one of the most exciting films I have ever seen. From the very beginning I realized that the story was nonsensical and that the characters in the film do not exist and will never exist. I also realized that the film had no message or a message that I would find meaningless. But still: I was spellbound, I found the colours and the images really beautiful, I sympathized with the characters I was supposed to sympathize with, I was excited when I was supposed to be excited. In as far as on the themes of the movie was the stuggle between the good beings versus the bad beings I was on the side of the good beings. I really wanted them to win. I was scared when the director wanted me to be scared. I was relieved when the director wanted me to be relieved. |
Avatar was likely one of the top 10 dumbest movies I’ve ever seen. I didn’t even think it was that visually impressive, and the 3D was way overhyped. Who puts Sigourney Weaver in an A movie these days and was there a single likeable character in the entire film? |
Me and Bill went to see Avatar and he loved it so much he’s taking our grandkids to see it. He’s a conservative Republican. But he didn’t hear about all the criticism in advance. I told him after. He said, “what? That’s crazy! It’s just a good movie. Plus the bad guys weren’t Marines, they were mercenaries. Maybe they used to be Marines, but not now.” Pretty much his exact words. I thought it was pretty good, too. The Hurt Locker is a great movie, as well. |